Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Hi Jim,
      The first thing I try to do before introducing a dog to the gun
    is make sure that they are bird crazy.  Clipped wings are great
    for this.  Once they are nuts for the bird, I do pretty much what
    you are already doing.  Throw the bird out and while they are on
    there way out, fire the gun.  I start with a .22 blank pistol.
    If they show no reaction, I work my way gradually up to a 12ga. there
    is a conditioning tape on the market which is supposed to work in
    preventing gun shyness.  Im not sure who puts it out but it is supposed
    to work.  Mayby someone else in this file know a source????
    
    Jeff

    There are gun shy dogs and gun sensitive dogs. Gun shy dogs
    will not hunt at the sight or smell of a gun. Or gun shy dogs
    will head for the car at the first shot and not be useable for the
    rest of the day.
    
    a gun sensitive dog is one that shows a reaction something
    to like flinching. It won't be able to sit still or will
    leave your side when it thinks you will shoot....
    
    It will purhaps go make the retrieve and then get in the back of
    the truck. Only to come out and do it again...
    
    They don't like the gun but the desire to make the retrieve
    is stronger than the fear of the noise.
    
    Don't rush into this....In my opinion.... it is allright
    to start condition a 4 month old pup to guns with the
    dinner plates and clapping but I don't think your dog
    should be introduced to gun just yet.
    
    If you are trying to get her intro for this years hunting season
    you have your priorities wrong.....
    
    I make the mistake of moving the training sessions too fast...
    
    What you want to do is develope the upmost from your dog
    to use for many seasons to come not take short cuts to get
    her ready only to find out you may have developed a bad habbit
    that you will have to live with the rest of her life.
    
    You already invested 4 months in the dog..
    
    She will be 6 or 7 come hunting season and she may be useable
    but you may also take shortcuts along the way that will not show
    up imeadately..
    
    The intro to gun should be done gradually. She should be on clipp
    wings for at least a month and maybe two.. Then shots should be
    firesd at a distance over "WEEKS" and gradually brought closer...
    
    Then a 20 ga... and then a 12 ga...
    
    In my opinion it should take you almost to the end of hunting season
    to get her introduced to birds first and then the gun and do it
    properly. This is why I say if you wish to hunt with her this year
    you will be rushing.
    
    Now you can do it quicker but sometimes what you end up with is
    a dog sensitive to guns.
    
    I have taken short cuts. I have seen gun sensitivity in varring
    degrees. I admitt I have made mistakes.
    
    I hope you don't make the same mistakes.
    
    Bear
    
    Ah you may rush her and see no signs of sensitivety and say
    "What does he know?" I'm not saying it can't be done what I 
    am saying is "Do you want to take the chance?"

    I started with a blank pistol at feeding time and as the dog and
    I were walking through the woods.  I think the later worked best.
    Pups love running in the woods/fields and have so much to see and
    smell that they quickly ignore the noise.  I moved fairly quickly
    from there to a 12 gauge.  I think Jeff's advice was key - get the
    dog bird crazy first.  My pup was 6 months old at the start of
    hunting season last year.  Once we started finding birds, she
    quickly associated the gun with the birds and as a result, loved
    the sound of the shotgun.
    
    As Bear suggests, I probably caused some problems by rushing my
    pup.  Fortunately, this wasn't one of them.  As all training
    advice emphasizes, you must know your dog and slow down the training
    at the first sign of fear.
    
    Mark,
    

    I too am going to have to agree with bear.  You're wasting your
    time if you think the dog is going to hunt right at 6 months.
    It will not have endurance and I doubt if it will have the
    attention span to do what you want in the field for much more
    than 10 minutes.
    
    I am working my 11 week old very slowly.  I was doing the 
    retrieves in the hall with her with all the doors closed
    (no where else to go but back to me).  (works great Bear)
    
    We do the thing with the .22 blanks at supper.  I don't even
    think she hears the gun now.  It took her two shots to not
    "notice" the noise.
    
    She is working on "Hup" now.  She is doing well with this, but she
    won't hup when she is overly excited.  We have just started working
    seriously on this on Sunday.
    
    In my opinion, the two most important things you want to teach a
    young pup is to HUP anywhere at any distance from you immediately.
    Second, the COME command is essential.
    
    We are about to start working on COME.  
    
    I have a 3 year old which is a hunting Springer that was not a
    "high octane" FT dog.  He was relatively easy to teach because he
    was very patient.  The pup I have now is HYPER.  I mean she is a
    ball of fire.  She has been jumping off 5 foot ledges without being
    hurt since she was 7.5 weeks.  The dog has no fear, never gets tired,
    and is smarter than me.  Tough job ahead.
    
    Brett.

    Jim 
    
    	I want to appologise . There is nothing your base note that
    even hints that you might be rushing your dog and I suspose
    all my fears were from my experiences..
    
    I am the one who has at one time or another may have rushed a dog
    in his/her development. Somtimes I was not aware I rushing the dog
    but in retrospect it was my over eagerness that may or maynot
    creates these quirks.
    
    So please don't take any of this personal and try and look at
    it objectively..
    
    Use what you want,, and discard what you regard as B#ll sh#t.
    
    The Retreve-R-Trainer is also a good tool to intro a dog
    to gunshot.
    
    First we take the dummy and use it for about two - three week
    throwing it and teasing the dog.. This getts the dog acustomed to
    this dummy and he learns this is a great game...
    
    Before this I use mostly tennis balls. or anything that
    is sorta dry and can be picked up and carried easily by a pup.
    
    At any rate after  I buy the Retrive-R-Tranier and using the dummy
    for sometime I am about to use the 22 cal blanks to trust the
    dummy. 
    
    In the begining I will use only the weakest charge. Now I take
    some vasoline and slop up the post. Now slide dummy on about half
    way .. Get the dogs attention and  tease him/her and then pull the
    firing leaver....
    
    When the dummy is not put on all the way the sound is muffled
    very low....This is because there isn't very much pressure built
    up.. You can make it sound as low a 22 or even lower...
    
    of course the retrieve isn't very long... The dog doesn't care
    because the he gets the dummy and it wasn't much anyway..
    Now continue very slowly giving 3 or 4 a lesson and over periods
    of weeks slowly pushing the dummy down further down the post creating
    longer retrieves and louder repore.
                                       
    If done correctly this is an excellent tool for retrieving and
    introduction to gun fire....
    
    Also you may want to try this first when the dog isn't around.
    You purhaps could try it on a older dog first..
    
    I like to see a dog extreemly entusastic about retrieving
    and able to make all thrown retrieves before I do this..
    First we start in open cover and move to thicker cover as
    the dogs ability and joy of retrieve dictates This will change the
    dog over from a sight dog to one who uses his nose to find
    thrown objects and later shot birds.
    
    Bear
    

    re:all
    Nope, I wasn't looking for this season to be a good one, in fact
    I don't know if I'll take her out opening day. If I do, I plan to
    stay away from the management areas. My brother has a fully trained
    dog and I know she'll follow him around. The last dog I had, I trained
    with my brothers. What a mistake. She was so used to following my
    brothers dog, that come open season, thats all she wanted to do.
    I finally broke her by hunting her alone for the rest of the year.
    
    Another question I have. I never trained my dogs to hup when they
    reach the dummy, because of the advice from my brother that because
    we wern't going into field trials, it was a waste of time. Also,being
    that a cock pheasant will run, the dog will hup and not put it up.
    How do you feel about this ? Is it to late to start now that I've been
    having her just pick up the dummy and return it ? And whats the
    best method ? A check cord ?
    
    Thanks
    Jim

      First I wouldn't teach a dog to "Hup" at the dummy.  This would
    be a great way to teach a dog to blink birds.  What you want to
    do is teach him to hup to the flush.  When the bird flushes the
    dog sits.  A sitting dog is alot better marking dog then one that
    is running.  He will be a better retriever, and will get you more
    second shots should you (heaven forbid) miss.  A dog that continues
    the chase after the flush won't give you the opurtunity for a second
    flush as he will chase that bird clear out of the county.  Another
    point is that it is alot safer for the dog if he sits after the
    flush.  If the bird is a low flyer and the dog is chasing you may
    not be able to get the shot off without endangering the dog.  Try
    to take the effort to train your dog to be steady to wing and shot.
    It will make better hunters out of both of you.
    
    Jeff

    
    Having trained my own dog, not knowing really what I was doing (I
    have learned a lot since then), I trained her to heel, come, stop,
    sit, hold, drop...but HUP eludes me...what does it mean?
    
    To stay with the base note a little.  I used basically what everyone
    else has suggested, .22 up to 12 ga., to get her use to the sound.
    My dog was never affected by the sound, at 3-4 months I was shooting
    the 12 ga. with her at my side.  It is the trainer's duty to know
    his/her dog, being able to read the signs of noise related problems.
    The bitch to the litter of my dog is extremely gun (noise) shy,
    a boom of thunder and she's off whimpering.  I was extremely cautious
    because of that fact, I would shoot the gun, lay it on the ground
    and let her smell it...she really gets pumped up by the smell of
    spent powder...guess she takes after me in that sense.  :^)
    
    
    You want to know what really can ruin a good dog...the 4th of July.
    Everyone throwing firecrackers, of course if your lab is like mine,
    she sees someone throw something she has to be right in the thick
    of things.  Nothing like a firecracker going off 1" from a dogs
    nose to make them gun shy...I've seen it happen.  Mine had one go
    off very close to her nose last year, and shook it off, I (she)
    was lucky.  I almost fed the remaining pack to the idiot that threw
    it close to the dog.  She goes in the camp on the 4th from now on.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Kevin

    
    re .7
    
    Jeff, you answered my question...and beat me to the reply. 
    
    Kevin

    re:7
    Jeff, thanks. I understand that you want the dog to hup after the
    bird is flushed. The thing is, the only way to train the dog for that
    is with live birds(pigeons) right ? Maybe my brother is right then.
    Whenever our dogs have flushed a bird, they usually watch the bird
    and wait for the shot, but we never had them hup. The hup command
    will make the dog sit, at least thats the way I learned it. Correct
    me if I'm wrong.
    
    Jim

    Hi Jim,
      Im not an expert by any means on springers, I've always had Labs.
    I think your correct however in saying that the best (only?) way to 
    teach a dog to Hup on the flush is with live birds.  A dog that
    is sitting can't break on the shot.  A dog that s standing is only
    a step away from breaking. If your dogs are already stopping on
    the flush, it shouldn't take much more work to get them to sit.
    Mayby some of the springer owners in this file could help, Pat or
    Bear??
    
    Jeff

    I talked with my brother last night on this, he mentioned that
    sometimes teaching the dog to hup on a flush will lead the dog into
    a point, in which case for pheasant hunting isn't good. I don't know
    if I buy his theory, however our dogs have sometimes brought back 
    the birds alive in which case hupping, they would have lost them. 
    When they do fly and I've missed the shot because
    of sun in my eyes and other bullsh*t, the birds go about seventy
    five yards away and the dogs have never broken after them. I guess
    if I were interested in Field Trials it would be imperative to train
    them to hup. I'm gonna have to think on this some more. My concern
    right now is that I want a dog that is good on grouse hunting and
    pheasant hunting. I don't think you can train a dog to point on one type of
    bird and flush on another. I  don't know. Are there any experts out there.

    Jim

     Im confused as to why you ask if "you can train a dog to point on
    one bird and flush on another".  You shouldn't be training a springer
    to point ANY bird.  Your brothers fears about the dog "pointing"
    a bird are mis-labeled.  What he really is worried about is what is
    called a "soft flush".  This when a dog hesitates just as the bird
    flushes or right before the bird flushes.  A properly trained dog
    should not do this.  The dog should be hard charging right up to
    and including the moment the dog makes contact with the bird.  Watch
    a well trained springer work pheasants.  A good one will leap into
    the air and often take a mouthfull of tail feathers from the bird
    as it flushes, but at the same time will sit when his feet touch
    ground.  Truly and impressive sight!  Why would your dogs have lost
    the birds they brought back alive if they had hupped on the flush?
    The dog should not sit _untill_ the bird is in the air, ie they
    should be hot on the trail of all runners.  Keep asking questions
    as its nice to talk dogs.  You springer owners out there correct
    me if I'm wrong.      
    
    jeff

    	It sounds like this dog is holding steady.  Some spaniels are
    	trained to stand rather than hup, although intuitively it seems
    	that they would be more tempted to break.  The main point is 
    	that they hold still until you send them.  But as Jeff said,
    	they should get the bird in the air first.  Someone was telling
    	me that during the training, the dog may get confused about
    	when it is supposed to "hup", but I don't think it would be
    	difficult to work this out.
    		Linda

    Well, I'll play devil's advocate here.
                        
    A dog that hups at the flush will lose many more birds than a Springer
    that charges after the bird.  Why give a pheasant a head start into
    the next country?  The thing you want to watch is a springer
    that "catches" birds. 
    
    "Steady to the flush" is only for esoteric Field Trial judges. 
     
    
    Brett.

    "A dog that hups at the flush will lose many more birds than a Springer
    that charges after the bird."
    
    I disagree.  
    
    *  A dog that is moving is a lot poorer marking dog then
      one that is standing still.
   
    *  A dog that breaks is ALOT more likely to get shot then one that
      is steady. 
                                      
    *  A dog that breaks is abt to interfere with othe working dogs.
      ie: try and steal the retrieve,
    *  If your worried that your dog will have trouble with a lightly
      hit bird that hits the ground running then considure this:
      
      Your dog found the bird in the first place.  Your dog now is trailing
      a bird which is bleeding and emitting more scent.  Your dog knows
      _exactly_ where to start trailing the cripple, ie where the bird landed. 
      My thoughts are that if the dog could find a healthy bird in the
      first place then he ought to be able to find a cripple he saw hit
      the brush.                                              
                
    Jeff (Let the discussion begin 8*)
    

    Jeff, I agree. A springer isn't a dog you want if you want a dog
    to point. I guess its more laziness on my part that I never trained
    them to hup on the flush. My dogs have never broke on me, but being
    I'm training a new pup I want it done right, and hup to flush sounds
    like the dirrection I'll head. I don't care if we'er off the topic,
    cause I like sharing information on gun dogs.
    
    Jim

    Brett,
    
    	I'm sure glad you like playing devels advocate.
    
    The pheasant are on the ground and if he knows what he is doing will
    run until there is no other way out, then and only then he will
    take to the air.
    
    You take aim and because some ( insert your favorite excuse ) reason
    you wound the bird.
    
    Now a unsteady dog is a third of the way there and a steady dog
    is wishing you would release him to get it. You give the release
    command ( Willie ) .   It is true that the unsteady dog will get
    there first.... and everything being equal there will be a time
    when getting there quicker will mean purhaps a bird that will be
    recovered that for some reason wasn't recovered by the steady dog.
    
    But it shouldn't be that many. We are splitting straws...
    If we do our work and give the dog lots of runners in training it
    will even be less... A well seasoned dog will find the track of
    the recent shot bird and there will be no hiding place....
    
    We can take Mallard ducks and tape the wings and give the duck a
    head start... Great tracking work.. Your dog should be trained to
    come up with these cripples.
    
    Now lets see what happens when we are in an area like Iowa,south
    Dakoda, nebraska, colorado, washington , or orgon. You are in an
    area with lots of native phesants.( insert your favorite state)
    
    It's cocks only and it is opening day you are out about 15 minutes
    and your dog is acting crazy. I know he is acting a little unusuall.
    The reason is every where he goes the cover is filled with scent.
    
    He going crazy its getting hot... boy there he goes.... Its a hen.
    The steady dog  is waiting for your next move. We watch the bird fly
    off. Now we will regain work in a different direction than in which the
    bird flew. we put up two more hens. We are now coming to the end
    of the field and two cocks take to the air.. I drop one you drop
    one. both are nice clean shots.. I take another step an another
    one goes up. I drop this one but it is a cripple.
    
    I send my dog after the cripple first.. I either pick up the other
    birds while the dog is hunting or I wait until the cripple is brought
    to hand and send the dog on  two blind retrievs... ( the dog has
    lost his marking and may need handled two the other two birds.)
    
    What do you think happened to the unsteady dog.
    
    On the very first hen he went beserk. He was chasing and and chasing
    and he didn't remember hearing a shot but what the heck. Then he
    pus up another and another. Then you see the three cocks go up out
    of gun range and you partners mumbles something...
    
    What was that Brett? And he quickly changes his thoughts and says,
    Boy Bear, what noise on that dog too bad we couldn't harnes that
    energy, that desire. It is really a shame bear to let that good dog
    go to waist...
    
    Good dog My foot. He is being polite...
    If you don't train the dog it not the dogs fault, ITS YOUR FAULT...
    
    Bear
    
    If you think my example is bazar. It may be . But how do you want
    your dog to react when you get in this situation ? Think about it.
    
    I think the only reasons not to steady a dog to wing and shot are
    lack of training time, lack of training ability, lazyness or just
    plain ignorance...
    
    Buy the way the names have been changed to protect the inocent.
    I am not signaling any one out... A well trained dog is always
    better than the same dog not trained and in the raw.
    
    
    

    Bear,
      Of course if you were hunting with a Lab you wouldn't need to
    send the dog on "two blind retrieves because he lost his mark".
    
    jeff 8*) 8*)  8*)
                  

    		I love it!  Good answer Jeff.

    re:19
    Right. 
    
    Because lab's are only good for flushing one bird per day anyway.
    
    
    
    I do have to stand up for my springers.
    
    Jim

    Timely topic for me as I am in the process of steadying my springer.
    
    Couple of thoughts...
    
    re: .12
    I don't believe it is mandatory for a flushing dog to hup to the
    flush in a field trial (at least springers) to be considered steady. 
    They must whoa. As Jeff said earlier, whoa is closer to a break than 
    hup. But if your dog is whoaing, I believe it is considered steady. 
    Hup gives the handler greater control. So by all means steady your 
    dog. Whether you choose to have the dog hup (flushing breeds only) 
    isn't as important.
    
    I think every hunting dog should be steady to wing and shot for
    lots of good reasons already covered, safety, etiquette, etc. I
    experienced a hunt last season with my new (4 1/2 year old) 
    springer similar to the one described by Bear (you weren't watching
    and laughing in the bushes Bear, were you?)
    
    I started with Pat 2 weeks ago and have made (with Dave Nelson's
    help) alot of progress. My dog is now 5 and isn't having much trouble
    picking up on the idea. At his present rate, he'll be fine this
    fall.
    
    What is more fun is trying to steady (whoa) Dave's Sherman Tank
    er...ah Shorthair. 8^) I've got to get a video...

    Guy

    Not singling anybody out?
    
    Willie?
    
    Brett?
    
    Good thing I didn't tell you Saighton Sheba's name!
    
    :-)
    
    Anyway, when was the last time you saw two Pheasants in one day?
    (week?) 
                                                                    
    (Addieville doesn't count)

    Re. Brett
     "Anyway when was the last time you saw two pheasants....."
    
    People who hunt with Labs get multiple flushes all the time.  Must
    be the excellent breeding and the superior noses.
    
    Jeff - who is having fun busting ba$$s 

    Jeff I was trying to be realistic. I think a great many hunters
    would pick up the birds themselves. 
    
    Only a "dog man" would stand there and obtain great joy at
    watching his dog make multible retrieves...
    
    Most people are more worried about two birds in the hand
    is worth more than ( anything else ) They just want to make sure
    they get the bird.. And there is nothing wrong with that.
    
    Brett when I started writing I had no idea where I was going.
    I should have been more consistant....
    
    And oh by the way the last time I hunte N.H. We jumped 7 Pheasants.
    
    I didn't get any but the sun was in my eyes? or it flew behind 
    a tree... or a bug got in my eye... something like that .
                                                             
    bear
    
    

    One thing I learned over the years hunting with springers is that,
    when you come to a field that is  being hunted by springers, pass
    it by becasue they will get any birds that are in there.
    On the other hand if it being hunted by any other breed, go ahead
    and get the ones they miss. Besides, if you read any books they
    write on pheasant hunting, springers are the feature breed.
    
    Jim (who also likes busting em)
    
    

        
    
    	Boy, I realize now how much I'm in the minority.... never
        thought pointing breeds were so rare ;-)
    
    	I think I'll take "Sherman" and meander off into the sunset.
                                                
    
    dave

  Last time I had a dog that just stood there and pointed I kicked it
  in the butt. He stopped doing it.
    
    Jim

    I always thought pointers were for hunters that shoot like Stevie
    Wonder.  
    
      "O.k. the dog is pointing to that little clump of grass,
    If I hold the gun right here, and then kick the grass, the bird
    just MIGHT fly through my pattern." 
      
    Jeff - who got permission to hunt a cornfield yesterday.

    RE: .28 and .29       
    
    	LOW BLOWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
    
    	I've gotta be careful cuz I'm out numbered here.
        Jeff knows of my shooting skills, I need all the help
        I can get. 
    
    dave

re: .24
    
    Labs?
    
    Labs????
    
    Jeff, we're talking about pheasants.....not ducks.
    
    Bret.

    Geez, don't you guys know anything?  Labs are the all around hunting
    dog.  They can flush like a springer, have a nose like a pointer,
    and retrieve, well, like a Lab.  You don't have to worry about them
    ending up in the next county thirty seconds after they jump out
    of the truck.  They won't turn into a "pup-sicle" if you ask them
    to make a water retrieve in January.  They don't require an hour
    of "de-burring" after you hunt them in hard cover.  
    
    Jeff - who once thought of getting a springer but decided to get
           a HUNTING dog instead.

    re: 30
    
    That's ok Dave...Sam knows how well you shoot too. Why do you think
    he picks up so many birds...
    
    
    8^) 8^)

    re: 32
    
    I don't know Jeff...I understand some of Pat's springers have done
    ok at those "retriever" trials. Some of those lab owners were ...ah
    shaking their heads...
    
    
    Guy
    

    It must be the cooler weather. Everyone's trigger happy.
    But, lets face it, the best part of hunting is watching 
    that dog work. I hardly dear hunt anymore since I started
    hunting birds with a dog. The beauty of seeing your best
    friend put up that cock pheasant, and then returning it to
    you all full of pride, can't be matched by any other type
    of hunting. I don't think people who own a dog just as a
    pet can really appreciate the experience of having a working
    dog. I've seen gun dog's of all breeds, do things for the
    owners that is nothing short of being heroic. Going out for
    a bird in ice cold water, or retrieving a bird from a brier
    patch, is all done because of the loyalty the gun dog has 
    for its owner. We all have our favorite breeds, mine happens
    to be springers. I no springers have a personality that only
    springer lovers can understand, and I'm sure other breed owners
    can have the same understanding for there breeds. I definitely
    got the fever, I can't wait for opening day.

    Jim

    I don't want to hang out any dirty landry but it seems I remember
    hunting with one of these Labs once that really wanted to ignore
    his handler at least for the first 10 or 15 mins, anyway.
    
    We needed to get him under control,
    
    we did. 
    
    The point being maybe some else wouldn't. I think a lab
    who loves to hunt might be prone to start with out you
    on occassion, just like a springer..
    
    Its called enthusaism ( sp ) 
                                 
    
    Bear

     Yea, I agree with Jim.  There is NOTHING compared to watching a
    good dog work a pheasant on a crisp autumn morning when the leaves
    are at there peak of color.  The dog quartering back and forth
    untangling the thread of scent until just when you are beggining
    to doubt there sincerity, a cock bird explodes from underneath the
    dogs nose in all its beauty.  Is there a prettier sight then a mature
    cock bird in a springers mouth?  Or how about sitting in a goose blind
    trying not to peak as a flock of honkers looks over your decoys,
    your dog sitting beside quivering with excitement as the birds circle,
    circle, circle..... finally they commit and you dump a pair out
    of the flock.  One hits the ground running and it's race time for
    the dog.  God, this is like torture.  In truth, there are very few
    hunting dogs that I don't enjoy gunnin over.  Hunting with out a
    dog isn't hunting to me, its shooting.  A good bird dog will make
    your bad days memorable, and your good days unforgettable.
                                     
    
    Jeff

    
    RE: .36
    
    >>> Is there a prittier sight than a mature cock bird in a springer's
    mouth?
    
    YES !!!!
    
    	A mature cock bird in a Brittany's mouth!!
    
    	That's my dog.
    
         Steve ;^) ;^)

    We taught our 13 week old springer to swim yesterday.  What a thrill!
    
    My wife and I jumped off our boat into Lake Washington, leaving
    the dog on the boat alone.  We called a few times and she worked
    up the nerve to jump off the transom.  Of course, she required very
    little instruction once she hit the water :-)
    
    I boosted her up on the boat and she jumped right back in again.
    
    10 minutes later, she passed out for about 2 hours.  Lots of excitment
    for even the fiesty-est of puppies.
    
    Brett.

    I thought I wanted to teach my springers how to take me bird hunting
    before, but now I am SURE that I want to !!!
    
    I have two 2 year old female springer spaniels.  One who thinks
    she is a lap dog (leave her home with my wife) and the other that
    will chase a tennis ball all day long.  I effectionately call it
    enthusiasm, others call it hyper.
    
    But seriously though,  if I want to do this the correct way is this
    something I can teach the dog myself (i.e. read a book and then
    teach), or does anyone know of someone who could teach me to train
    the dog ?
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Jim
    
    

    In reading that note there is probably more info that I should 
    add.  Although very energetic, both dogs have been well trained
    for Sit, stay, down, heel, and come.  They have really worked out
    quite well.  We did the obedience training through a class but put
    a lot of time on ourselves.  based on that, I am really looking
    forward to training her for hunting.
    Jim
    
    

    
    Jim ,
    
    Pat Perry of Hedgerow Kennels has a program where he teaches
    dog owner to hanndle there own dogs. I highly reccomend this program
    and it seems like it is exactly what you are looking for providing
    you live in the New England area since he is located in Mass.
    
    At any rate conntact Pat for more information.
    
    he can be reached Bpov09::perry.
    
    Bear

    
        re:-1
    
        Does anyone have updated info on this, Bpov09::perry no longer
    exists.
        or any other training program.
    
        Dick
    

       Pat Perry left DEC several years ago to train dogs full time.
    He opened Hedgerow Kennels.  His number is 508-249-7115.  Give him 
    a call.
    
    Jeff