Conference vicki::boats

    Check your regs again.  The max width may be 8 feet w/o wide-load
    restrictions, which can raise hell with your towing schedule on some
    roads, depending on state, county, & local ordinences.
    
    Good luck.
    
    	-mike-

Well, the trucker who moves our boat (12000 pounds, 32' overall) uses a 
heavy duty tractor truck and a hydraulic trailer reported to cost some
$60k. I'd buy a smaller boat. Yes, you need a wide load permit for
anything over 8' in width. You also need to worry about height. Anything
over about 12' will be a problem (like you can't get under bridges,
power lines, etc). 

    I believe some states (N.H. included) are up to 8' 6" width without
    a permit. 
    
    Standard overhead clearance (in the absence of signs warning of less)
    is 14' - if my memory of studying for my commercial license serves
    me correctly.
    
    Bill
    

IMHO, you're way beyond the limits of trailerability.  Most states now
allow up to 8'6" width without special permits. Nowhere is 10' allowed.

Then there's the issue of weight.  A rented 1-ton pickup isn't going to
come close to towing this beast.  With a wet weight of 9000 lbs., you're 
talking about a trailer that's going to weigh 3000 lbs by itself.  This 
gives you a total of 12,000 lbs (I took math in school).  With that kind 
of load, you're looking at an F-Super Duty truck, *MINIMUM*. 

Generally, the maximum trailerable size for a pocket cruiser is around 25'
long, 8'6" wide, and 7000 lbs.  Even at that you need a HEFTY towing rig.
The only options I see for you are to leave the boat in one place (boring),
pay someone to move it for you on a regular basis (expen$ive), or downsize 
(my choice).

Rick

    I believe 9' 6" is legal in Washington without a wide load permit.
    I know a guy who trailered a 30 foot Tollycraft with well over a 10
    foot beam. He pulled it with a Suburban. He had a permit and would
    launch every Friday night and pull every Monday morning. It all depends
    what you think is reasonable. 

re: 1029.5
>> -< Only your opinion counts >-
>> It all depends what you think is reasonable. 


Hmmm. I'm not sure, but in this case I think the highway patrol, the insurance 
company, and the owner or warranty provider of the rented 1 ton truck may have
some input on towing a 12000+ lb., 10' wide load on a 700 mile round trip.

Then again, I could be wrong.  8^)

Rick

    Re special permits,
    
    It is my impression that one needs a separate permit for each time 
    (or day) that they move the boat, from each state that they are passing
    through, and that overwidth permits are only issued for daylight
    hours.
    
    Bill
    

    
      You can get some one tons and Suburban setups for towing around
    11-12K lbs. I think there are a bunch of tradeoffs to consider. Whether
    or not the local laws will allow it are just one. There is a lot of
    cash tied up in those big trailers and rigs set up in such a way that
    makes them not so great for use when they are NOT being used for
    towing. I think it does all come down to:
    
    		1. CAN you do it.
    
    		2. Is it worth it for you.
    
    Find out if the laws where you will be towing will allow it and how
    much ALL of the required pieces (trailer, tow vehicle, etc.) will run
    you. I think then you may be able to get a better idea if it is what
    you really want to do.
    
    				Kenny

    
    Lot's of good input so far... (better than aluminum ski boats, huh?)
    
    First question I'd want an answer to is:
    
    		"Can this boat be legally trailered?".
    
    If the answer to the previous question is yes, then Kenny's questions
    in .8 all apply.
    
    If the answer is "NO" then I see three simple choices. 
    
    	1) A slip or mooring within a weekend drive which is reasonable
    		for you, which will accomodate your current boat.
    
    	2) Purchase a smaller trailerable boat.
    
    	3) No boat at all.
    
    And we all know that #3 is NOT an option!
    
    Good luck in your decision...
    
    Rick
                     

   I presume part of the problem is the $2.5K cost of the slip.  Could you
pull the boat and store it on the trailer at the marina for less than the
cost of the slip?  Each time you get the chance to run to the coast you have
them launch it again.  Not a nice option, but it beats selling the boat...

Al

    8'6" is the minimum width restriction nationally now, fostered by the
    same sort of legislation that coerced the states into uniformly
    adopting 55 mph limits and such--"play or we don't pay [highway funds]." 
    Some states do allow wider loads on certain roads.
    
    One main impetus for the change several years ago was from boat and RV
    mfg'rs who wanted to sell bigger products.  Note how many poular lines
    of larger size trailerable boats have increased their beams by a few
    inches as a result.
    
    John.

    
    	Well, opinions seem to vary on exactly what max allowable width is,
    but we seem to agree that is probably less than 10ft without special
    permits.  If all of that could be arranged (priced ?) and found to be
    acceptable, I guess the next step would be to look for a suitable tow
    vehicle.  According to how attached one is to the boat it might be
    worth looking around for something beefier than a 1 ton pick-up, if I
    were doing this I'd be browsing the "construction equipment"  section
    of the want-ads looking for something that has spent its life hauling a
    back-hoe.  Dunno much about model numbers, but C60 springs to mind.
    
    	Reg
    

    Lots of good input so far, thanks. 
    
    Re: .9 there's a forth choice which is to move.
     
    I'm not tied to a specific facility because of the nature of my job, I
    spend more time in other field cities than I do at home. My boss
    doesn't care where I spend my weekends.
    
    Don't tell my wife, but I'd prefer to sell both the house and boat and
    go for a larger live aboard boat on one of the inland waterways.
    
     
    
    

re: 1029.13  
>> Re: .9 there's a forth choice which is to move.
     
This is no joke, when you said the nearest "Big" water was 350 miles, I 
was going to offer that as a suggstion but didn't want to be a wise guy. 

That's a long way to go for a weekend of boating with ANY size boat in 
tow, let alone one the size you've got.  We freeze up here in the winter 
(it ALREADY looks like winter) but I guess that's one advantage we've got
in New England.  Within a couple hours drive we've got several big lakes,
rivers, and about a dozen different ocean environments.

About mid-February we'd trade it all for a single 75 degree pond...  8*)

Rick

RE: <<< Note 1029.4 by GOLF::WILSON >>>


>>>Then there's the issue of weight.  A rented 1-ton pickup isn't going to
>>>come close to towing this beast.  With a wet weight of 9000 lbs., you're 
>>>talking about a trailer that's going to weigh 3000 lbs by itself.  This 
>>>gives you a total of 12,000 lbs (I took math in school).  With that kind 
>>>of load, you're looking at an F-Super Duty truck, *MINIMUM*. 

Rick,

I towed a 6 ton bulldozer (12,000 #s) plus the trailer, which wasn't lightweight
either.... with a 6 cylinder GMC 3/4 ton pickup (4X4). So you can't say it can't 
be done. This truck did this more than a few times. Including a couple of trips
from MA to central NH. 

If I didn't have electric brakes on the trailer, I would have serious stopping 
problems, but otherwise it was fine.


	Steve

re: Note 1029.15
>>I towed a 6 ton bulldozer (12,000 #s) plus the trailer, which wasn't 
>>lightweight either.... with a 6 cylinder GMC 3/4 ton pickup (4X4). So 
>>you can't say it can't be done. This truck did this more than a few 
>>times. Including a couple of trips from MA to central NH. 

Well, whatever. I don't recall saying it COULDN'T be done.  It all depends
on how dangerously you like to live, and the risks you're willing to take
with liability, other people's safety etc.

Remember, the truck we're talking aobut here is a RENTED one-ton.  The
circumtances are quite different from towing 6 ton dozer to central NH:

- a rented one-ton truck will not be equipped with the right hitch or insured 
  to tow 6 tons.
- The trip in question is 350 miles, EACH WAY.
- Presumably, family members will be coming along on this trip, in badly
  overloaded and unsafe equipment.
- No state allows 10' wide loads without special permits.
- Any accident or incident would leave him open to a multitude of violations
  and lawsuits.

Now, to restate it - can it be done with the vehicle in question?  Sure.  
We've all seen TV ads with a pickup towing a railroad train.  Power is not 
the problem. Can it be done safely, responsibly, and legally?  I still say 
no.  If you're that daring - more power to ya.  Just be prepared for mega-
lawsuits if your bravery injures someone else.

Rick

Rick,

As long as I could quickly and safely stop, I considered it safe. But if 
someone in another vehicle did REALLY something stupid I might have had 
my hands full. 

By the way, I don't really recommend doing it to tow your boat either.
But it would be a great excuse to buy a small dump truck though!

	Steve

    Rick,
    
    I own a ChaparraSignature 29 which I tow on a semi-regular basis.  The
    caluclated towing weigth is about 11500 to 12000 pounds. he heighght on
    the trailer is just under 13'.  We tow the
    boat from Tucson, AZ. to Page, AZ. to boat on Lake Powell.  Towing
    distance is about 450 miles over some elevations of 7300' and 6/7%
    grades.  My last tow vehicle was an F250 supercab with a 460 c.i.  I
    recently upgraded to a 1 ton GMC dually crew cab.  This was not because
    the F250 couldn't handle the tow, but I blew the engine and didn't want
    to invest a new engine in a 3/4 ton truck. 
    
    It is not uncommon in the west to tow boats up to 3'.  Permits are
    required over 8'6", however I pay $45.00 per year for my permit here in
    Arizona.  I am required to stay off the freeways in Phoenix and Tucson
    during rush hours and to have flags and overwide signs.  Other than
    that there rellly aren't any restrictions (55mph top speed) that are a
    real problem.  
    
    The truck has to be equipped very carefully to tow these kind of
    weights.  Special attention must be given to hitch ratings.  It is
    hard, but not impossible, to find a hithc system rated over 10000#. 
    Transmission AND engine coolers are necessary.  A 1 ton truck will have
    larger brakes than a 3/4, which is very nice.  A rental truck is not an
    option, in my opinion, because of insurance, maintenance and hitch
    considerations.  Instead, buy an older 1 ton and use it only for towing
    the boat.  I realize that it is expensive, but that is the price you
    pay for owning a large trailerable boat.
    
    If the 28 Rogue is the boat you want, then tow it!  Just do the proper
    preparation before.  We tow the boat to Lake Powell once each year and
    once to either Lake Mead,Mohave or Havasu.  Any of these is at least
    400 to 450 miles each way.  Also the elevations/grades can make for an
    interesting tow.  We tow it to several local lakes in the Phoenix area
    2-3 times a year.  The rest of the time it stays in a slip.  A good
    magazine to learn more about towing is Trailer Boats.  Occasionally
    they do an issue on oversize towing.  If you want to call me and find
    out any other info my number is 602-751-9880 (no DTN).
    
    Good luck,
    
    Dave 

    In #18 I meant to say that it not unusual to tow boats up to 32' in the
    west.  I am a remote engineer on a very noisy dial-up line. 
    
    Dave
    

    Does anybody know what the max towing weight is for a Plymouth
    Voyager/Dodge Caravan?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

    Dodge Caravan with 3.0/3.3 V-6 and H.D. tow package = 3100# (2000# w/o
       tow package)
    Plymouth Voyager with 3.0/3.3 V-6 and H.D tow package = 3500# (2000#
       w/o tow package)
    (I didn't know these vehicles were different.  Wonder why different
       ratings.)
    
    Either with the 2.5 I-4/auto tranny = 1750#
    Either with the 2.5 I-4/manual tranny =1000#
    
    Ratings from March 1993 Trailer Boat Mag.
    Wayne
    

    Thanks for the quick response, Wayne. Guess I'll have to investigate
    other options.
    
    Thanks again.
    
    John H-C

    Re: .18
    
    Dave,
    
    How do launch that big boat? Do you have a marina lift it or
    do you use a ramp? Also, what kind of trailer do you use? I
    will be towing a 26 foot Sea Ray 268 with a Chevy 3500 dually,
    but I am undecided on what to do about trailers. The marina where
    we slip the boat rents them, but I'd like to own one so that I
    can control maintenance on it.
    
    Thanks,
    Theo

    I launch the boat on a ramp.  The launching part is easy, if the ramp
    is very steep sometimes you can't stop when backing down the ramp.  You
    just unhook the boat before backing down (don't do this with a roller
    trailer) and when the boat hits the water the truck will stop.  It used
    to be tough pulling it out with two wheel drive.  We would have to  put
    three people in the back of the truck to get traction.  Now with the
    4wd dually it walks right out even on the steepest ramps.  We have a
    VIP trailer that is built in Chandler, AZ.  I really like the trailer. 
    It tows very well and seems to be built very well.  It is rated for
    12000 pounds.  The trailer cost in the neighborhood of $5000.  I prefer
    the bunk style trailer for a boat in this size.  It provides very good
    support.  Launching and recovering is easy,  just dunk the trailer and
    drive the boat off and on.  If you are launching in very shallow water
    or shallow angle ramps a roller trailer might be a consideration.  We
    have a slip at a marina about 145 miles northwest of Tucson.  As a
    result we don't like to take the time to launch/recover the boat every
    weekend.  We do have a friend that dry stores a 28' Bayliner and has to
    launch every time he uses it.  Your 268 behind a dually should not be a
    problem, should be a piece of cake.  Good luck.
    
    Dave

    In Maryland, "Boatels" have become a popular alternative to
    launching/towing. Landlord stores the boat on racks and uses a (big)
    fork lift to dunk in/out. Seems rather painless to me and no tow
    vehicle required.

    Yup ... that's how the marina where we keep "Anna Marie" does
    it too. They have two big warehouses where the boats are stacked
    four high in rows. However, we keep ours in a covered slip as we
    live in it every weekend.
    
    However, we want to take her to other lakes so towing is required.
    Most places we go will have marina that will lift her as you
    described, and float her for a nominal fee (or for free, if they
    can then sell me 100 gallons of gas!).
    
    Two trips we are in the planning stages for:
    
    1) A week or so on Lake Champlain - some time next summer. 
    
    2) A trip through the lakes of northern Alabama and up the river
       to Knoxville - some time next fall, depending on the foliage.
    
    Both these trips will require long tows, and the second will require
    that we have someone drive the truck and trailer for us from 
    Mississippi to Knoxville, TN., so we can load up and go home after
    the voyage.
    
    I can't wait .....
    
    Theo