Conference vicki::boats

	Moved by moderator...

				-mike-

================================================================================
Note 356.15                   mooring construction                      15 of 16
MSCSSE::BERENS "Alan Berens"                         24 lines   2-MAR-1990 15:21
                    -< be interested to hear how it works >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re .0

I can't resist!

>>> Using the alloy a Fortress will weigh less than a similiar size
>>> Danforth-style anchor, and thus demonstrates a greater holding power 
>>> to anchor weight ratio than regular anchors. 

But of course. Same holding power, lighter anchor, better ratio, and so 
what? What is important is not the holding power to anchor weight ratio,
but the HOLDING POWER. Does the anchor keep you anchored? Lightweight
anchors are nice if you're using quite large anchors, but in the sizes needed
for boats less than 40' or so, saving a few pounds doesn't make all that
much difference. There is a negative aspect lightweight -- anchor weight is
needed to get through weeds and to penetrate hard bottoms. Lightweight
anchors are often quite ineffective in such situations. Also, 
Danforth-style anchors tend to plane if the water speed is too great. A 
really light Danforth-style anchor might well plane in a small current. 
A normal Danforth planes at less than 5 kts, or so I've been told. Also, 
did you ask about corrosion resistance? Some alloys corrode very quickly 
in salt water (stainless steel anchors often fail due to crevice 
corrosion and really shouldn't be used in salt water for this reason).

    
    I've read quite a few articals about using "REBAR" for anchoring
    dirctly over wrecks to fish them. They say that 3 pieces of 1/4" tp 3?8
    inch Rebar welded together to form a grappal hook will hold
    sufficently and can be pulled straight by motoring away from the wreak;
    so as to save loss of a quality anchor.
    
    I'd like to give it a try this summer. Does anyone know where to pick
    up some scrap rebar? I have an oxy/acetleye tourch and can weld a few
    of them up.
    
    Whos has tried this setup?
    
                                       Walt
    

Alan, I had hoped that my original note where I took pains to make it clear that
the hype (more holding power per pound) was based on lighter weight, would show
that I understood that and that it wasn't the only thing I based my decision on.
Like I said we'll see how it works and I'll be glad to report if it doesn't meet
expectations. It certainly makes sense that the lighter wieght could be a disad-
vantage at times. On the other hand the quality of the anchor and it's other 
marketing features almost make it seem worth the price alone.

jlg

    There is several lengthy notes on anchors and anchoring in the sailing
    notes file.  MSCSSE::SAILING.  Try 373 and 607 for starters.  
    A dir/title=anchor produces about 20 topics.
    
    Ken Chester
    

I just purchased the Fortress FX-11....it happens to be on sale at E&B in 
the Dedham store for about $65 which is about what the FX-7 goes for in 
most places.   A superb anchor!

It has superior holding power and is light enough to use as a "lunch hook".

Carl

    When you say "it has superior holding power".
    
    Have you tested it? What is it superior too?
    
    Are you just reiterating there advertising statements...
    
    My reason for asking is that i don't believe they are superior
    after looking at them. There are too many nuts and bolts,
    to me these are weak points. They also look very light.
    
    There is no intention here to undermine what you've said,
    or to be sarchastic..
    
    I own a Bruce, and travel in the salt. To me these are the 
    "beasts" to use if your gonna anchor overnight. They don't
    let go, regardless of wind or tide direction changes,
    and are storm anchors if you follow their recommendations.
    One additional note, they also recommend 1' of chain for
    each foot of boat length.
    
    
    Jim.
    

>Note 623.6                     

>    When you say "it has superior holding power".
>    
>    Have you tested it? What is it superior too?

	No, I have not tested it.  
	It is superior to other Danforth anchors.  I would not suggest it
	be used instead of a Bruce, I would suggest its use in applications 
	such as:

		Danforth replacement/upgrade.
		When room is at a premium (it does collapse quite easily).
		When a second anchor is needed (storm or lunch hook)
			The FX-11 noted will be used as a "lunch hook";
			as a storm anchor it would not be a
			sufficient solution for a boat my size.

>    Are you just reiterating there advertising statements...

	No.  I based my comments on a conversation with the manufacturer,
	a write-up in Practical Sailor, and a limited test this past 
	weekend.  It met all my expectations of weight, holding power,
	and collapsability.

Carl

In general, any given anchor design is works better in some bottom
conditions and less well in others. No one design is best for all 
conditions, which is why many boats have several different anchors of 
different designs. 

re Fortress vs Danforth: To say that the Fortress is superior to the 
Danforth is making a rather drastic claim. Boat/US load tested to 
failure a number of different anchors. The Fortress FX-23 (claimed 
holding power 2000 lbs) failed at a load of 4650 lbs. The Danforth 
H-1500 (claimed holding power) failed at a load of 5150 lbs. While 
ultimate strengths this high may not mean much in the real world, it 
does indicate that in at least one respect the Fortress may not be 
superior. I personally would be rather trust my boat and life to a drop 
forged, high tensile steel anchor (CQR 35, failed at a load of 15250 
lbs) than a bolted together aluminum anchor. There are conceivable and 
probable circumstances when the time required to to assemble an anchor 
could result in losing your boat. But we each have our own preferences.

>Note 623.8                     

There are conceivable and 
>probable circumstances when the time required to to assemble an anchor 
>could result in losing your boat. But we each have our own preferences.

I agree entirely with the inapplicability of using an unassembled anchor as 
a primary anchor.  A torn down Fortress has a very functional application 
as a second anchor.

Should anyone purchase it as a primary, one should very definitely keep it 
on deck, where it can be used quickly!

Carl

    
    Hi, new to boating and have a beginner question.  What is the proper
    way to attach the anchor rode to the chain ??  I have seen the metal
    "u" shaped ring the rode goes around, whereby the end of the rode is
    braided together with the main line, how is the braid done and how
    is one to know if this will hold ??
    
    
    Thx,
    
    Steve

    
    	The thimble that you should use can be obtained at most good maring
    supply places.  The eye splice is not all that hard to do once somebody
    shows you how.  If done properly the eye will not come out, the line
    will typically fail at some other point in the line.  
    
    	Any number of books and video tapes are available to teach you how
    to make eye splices and other kinds of splices.  Unless you are into
    that sort of thing or really want to know how to do it just get the
    line made up for you.  I end up doing quite a bit of splicing for the
    sailing club I teach at.  To date I have never had a splice fail, lines
    breaking and chafing through is another story.....
    
    
    Forrest

    I tie mine with a anchor bowline (double bowline).  Real easy to tie
    and will not slip and can be untied.  If I notice any chafeing, I
    re-tie the knot.  I very seldom anchor for any length of time and drift
    fish whenever conditions permit.
    
    If it was for a mooring I would definitely eye splice it using a
    thimble.
    
    Gordon

    I would use a galvanized thimble and a 3 strand eye splice.  I assume
    you are using 3 stranded line rather than braided line?  Braided line
    can be spliced too.  You would need to get a book or video on how to
    do braided line though.  I don't know where you live but if you are 
    local to me but I doubt you are local (Salem, N.H.) I would be glad
    to show you how to do a 3 strand eye splice.  I suggest you NOT just
    tie a bowline or other knot in the line.  The splice is far superior
    for the use you have in mind.  Knots can weaken the line by 1/3, an
    eye splice will weaken the line by a max of about ten percent.  Also
    the knot is prone to chafing, the splice with thimble is not prone to
    chafe. 
    
    Eye splices are not hard to do... BUT THEY DO REQUIRE PRACTICE. Don't
    expect to pick up a book and whip one out... they are not THAT easy.
    They seem easy to those of us who splice, but, thinking back I remember
    the hours of practice it required to get them right.  I can do an
    inch eye splice in 5/8  3 stranded nylon line in less five minutes... but
    it took many hours of practice to get to that point.  Using a book
    you might be able to get an acceptable splice into the line in an hour
    or two.
    
    Want help, give me a call.
    
    Jeff