Conference vicki::boats

    
    I owned a 1977 Johnson 70hp outboard for four years, and put
    many trouble-free hours on it. It was so reliable and ran so
    well in fact that I never had to bring it in for service. I
    can't really vouch for the service depts. of any dealers in
    my area since I did all the routine maintenance myself.
    
    For anyone who may have dealer advice for you though, it would
    help if you let us know what area you live in.
    
    Rick W.

    Here's a dealer for you, Owens Marine in Manchester N.H. sells 
    Johnson outboards, its near Lake Massabesic near the traffic circle.
    I bought my boat there, they seem fair, but there service is a bit slow
    due to there popularity. Especially this time of the year. Give them a 
    try.
    
                           Eric

    Johnson (and Evinrude, of course) has less expensive models in their
    line up called the SPL series.  They lack a couple of horsepower as
    compared to the regular model motor of the same size, and they don't
    have the auto oil injection or power trim (which can be added as an
    option). However they have all the quality of the regular line up. A
    recent test said that features they are missing are relatively new and
    something that we lived without for years and still had fun.  If you
    are concerened about the cost, they might well be worth looking at. 
    
    john

    YOU CAN TRY ROBERTS MARINE ON RT.-20 IN CHARLTON, MA.
    HE'S TREATED MY FRIENDS & I VERY WELL IN THE PAST.
    
    FRED

    I would have to differ with the person that mention Owens, I have
    found them to be high priced and very rude. I have in the past owned
    a Johnson and found them to be very reliable, however I did not
    buy it from this area. I did however buy a Nissan from a dealer
    who also carries Johnson that I would highly recommend, and that
    is Roussel Marine in Dracut, Ma on Rte. 38, phone number 617-453-2112.
    The owners name is Dave and he is very helpful as is his wife. One
    thing that also impressed me was that when I when back to them at
    the end of the season to have my motor serviced, they remembered
    me by my first and last name, very friendly.
    
    Wish you luck in you purchase.
    
    	Greg

    I bought a new SPL48 last year.  I use it on my 17' boat for fishing
    and diving.  Seven weeks after my one year warranty expired, while
    a few miles off Lynn, the motor bucked softly and all forward or
    reverse shifting became impossible. This happened at a speed of
    approximately 10 miles an hour.  There was no visible damage to
    the prop from hitting anything submerged.  The motor starts, runs,
    and stops at the flip of the key, but I wound up having to get back
    to Lynn under tow.
    I have had the motor back to the dealer's now for two weeks, but
    have not heard what the problem may be.  The dealer feels its in
    the lower end.  Hopefully I'll hear this week.  The dealer felt
    that since it was 7 weeks out of warranty, it won't be covered.
    I'm fairly upset because the motor doesn't even have 50 hours on
    it.  I've owned 4 new OMC motor in the last 10 years and never had
    a problem with any of them.  The dealer states the motor is so new
    he doesn't even stock parts for it other than props or spark plugs.
    I've suggested he notify the district sales rep  ( before I do !).
    In the northeast, the boating season does not fully test a one year
    warranty on an outboard.  The boat has never pulled anything other
    than its own weight and two adults, and it never is run greater
    than 3/4 throttle.  
    I may just pay whatever repair bill I get and trade it toward a
    Yamaha or Suzuki if Johnson doesn't even give me a sympathetic
    response!
    Depending how the dealer responds, next week I'll either provide
    his name with praise or disgust.

    Well, I'm still waiting on the end results of how my 48SPL will
    turn out.  After a call from the dealer to the maufacturer (Johnson),
    the manufacturer stated they'd cover parts, but not labor.  It seems
    a defective pinion gear broke and then broke the forward and reverse
    gears as well as the drive shaft.  The overall estimate was $800.&;
    now the dealer estimates the labor will be around $200.00.  While
    I shall have to pay the dealer's labor,  I may just take him up
    on his offer extended to me last year when I purchased the motor
    and stating he would give me the purchase price should I trade it
    toward another motor or model.  I'm sure the same motor hasn't gone
    up that much in a year, or I'll look at the price of a 60 hp.  In
    either event, I am concerned about how the dealer will now treat
    me.  Johnson OMC did the right thing in quite a few opinions (at
    least those expressed by my family and friends).  Let's see how
    the dealership does before I praise or chastise him.  
    I'm glad I didn't have to escalate this to the consumer protection
    services offered by BOAT/US, of which I am a member, and I'm also
    glad the manufacturer renewed my faith in their products.

    RE. 22.6 & 22.7
    
    Well, its going on week 6, and while the Johnson sales rep stated
    the manufacturer will cover the parts, the dealer states he's still
    waiting on them to come in.  
    When I purchased the motor last spring, the dealer told me he'd
    give me the purchase price back should I decide at sometime to trade
    up.  I thought it'd be wise to now pay the dealer's labor, with
    Johnson covering the parts, and trade my one year old motor toward
    a 70 or an 88SPL.  I couldn't believe it when the dealer offered
    me $1200.00 less than I paid him for my motor, while at the same
    time, providing me figures on trade based against the suggested
    list.  A 1988 88SPL was going to cost me $2000.00 plus my 1987 48SPL.
    The dealer was giving me approximately $1500.00 for my motor, which
    still carries a price of $2700.00 installed w/controls and the prop.
    
    At that time I regreted not getting the dealer's promise in writing
    on the purchase agreement last season.  I didn't pursue the point
    with him from there, having come to the conclusion that he was not
    a man of his word, and after he made no attempt to cover the motor
    with the manufacturer UNTIL I threatened to contact OMC myself if
    he could not make the effort.  Since he is still doing the repair
    (if he gets the parts in soon), I have refrained from giving him
    my full opinion of him as someone I can feel comfortable doing
    business with in the future.  No doubt once I get my motor back
    from him, I shall never do business with him again, and I originally
    bought the boat, motor, and trailer there.
    
    My opinion of Ron Hartwell's  TRI CITY MARINE in Lunenburg, MA is
    that I do not feel I could recommend his dealership to anyone based
    on my own experiences with him.  Other Johnson dealers in Worcester
    and New Hampshire have treated me right in the past, and in the
    future I shall return my business their way.
    

    
       I to am having a problem with my 1988 200 hp Johnson.
    It was purchased in April 88 with a 22' Angler since I have had
    the boat and motor it has been in the shop for 1 1/2 months for
    miscellaneous problems. At present it is in the shop for a bad Statter
    the dealer has had it for 3 weeks unable to get the part. Is there
    a phone number to OMC to expedite a backorder? Also the dealer said
    that Statters go out frequently, anyone else haveing this problem?
    
    
                                      Thanks 
                                    Tommy 
    
    
    P.S. If anyone knows of a dealer that has a Statter to fit a 200
    hp Johnson please leave me a mail message with a phone number. Maybe
    I can make a deal (warranty).

    
    
    (Ref 22.9) >"leave mail message..."
        
      I only have an A1 account. Sorry about that.

    Tommy
    
    After nearly 9 weeks of the dealer having my 48SPL, my fiancee snapped
    and contacted Johnson OMC herself.  Remarkably, the same day she
    unloaded on someone there, I received a call late in the afternoon
    stating my driveshaft and other back-ordered parts would be sent
    out to the dealer THAT NIGHT!  
    Sorry I don't have the names of all responsible; I'll ask her tonight,
    but my point is the dealer stalled and stroked her, and she just
    was not going to stand for it!  She got the results I had been gearing
    up for over 9 weeks. OMC covered the $540.00 in parts; I paid $235.00
    in labor.
    (OMC did tell me the driveshaft and gears I had needed were not
    specifically for the model year 1987, and that's why they were not
    readily available.  Maybe your starter is also the same used from
    year to year.)
    
    Carlo
    
    

    The person to contact at Johnson's headquarters was named Bill Peters.
    carlo

    Owens Marine in Manchester NH ( on the rte 28 bypass off 101 ) has
    about 6-7 1990 Johnson 115 hp outboard motors with the controls
    for $3695. Thats about $2000 off their spring cost and below their
    dealer cost. 
    
    ..wish I had a boat to put one of them one.  Oh well..
    
    ~jeff 

    Wasn't Owens Marine one of those dealers with undesirable business
    practices.....according to earlier noters (peoples experiences) in this 
    conference. ? 
    
    At times, when something seems to-good-to-be-true....., it usually
    is. 
    
    /MArk    (does get cha thinkin' though)

    I've been dealing with Owen's Marine for over 2years now and have
    found them to be great! I guess it's how you go about dealing with
    them....Jim 
    
    P.S. If anyone wants to discuss the specifics of this I'm in the
    book.

    But Jim,

    You have a Merc on your Ranger.

    keith

    Ya, but I bought my rig at Owens...
    
    
    				Jim
    
    
    P.S. Tried to get me yea???

    Anyone know of a source for Johnson parts (specifically a control
    cable) in the Boston area? I work at WAO in Waltham so I could go
    either north or south if I have to but am looking for someone
    reasonably local. Thanks in advance.
    
    Larry

    
    The Johnson dealer is big $$$.
    There are severalk after market folkd who supply the cables. 
    
    
    In the area those folks who have cables (bring your old one in to match
    it up) are:
    
     Boat/US in Waltham
     E&B (AKA Bliss Marine) in Dedham
    
    Check info and give them a call. usually about 40% less than the dealer!
    and equal quality (sometimes better)
    
    

    
    As Dick mentioned Boat/Us is right nearby and may have what you
    need.  I know they carry throttle and shift cables for the Teleflex
    engine controls, they probably have a direct replacement cable for
    the Johnson factory control unit too.
    
    For other Johnson/Evinrude stuff, you'll find that Boat/US doesn't
    carry much for outboards except props and paint.  To find a dealer,
    pick up a copy of the 1991 NYNEX Boater's directory, there's a bunch
    of them listed under "outboards", although none right in Waltham.
    
    Rick

    Thanks for the responses. I am HOPING to be able to replace the
    internal sliding part of the cable and not the sheath as well. The
    cable snapped last year on the last day of taking it out for the season
    (it is my father's boat in Vermont) as I left their house to go to the
    boat ramp (timing is everything in life!). Now that I have had the
    whole winter to put it off, it is time for action!!! Thanks again.
    
    Larry

    
    
     The cables only come as an assembly and you need to know :
    Type of engine (year,make,HP)
    
    Type of Control (Johnson,Morse, etc)
    
    Length of cable
    
    As I recall, they are not that expensive(relative to other boat
    "stuff") now that there is an abundant supply of after market cables
    
    
    

    Well, Boats/US sent me to a Johnson dealer in Hingham, who was quite
    informative. Right about the year of my father's motor, John changed
    designs form something called a "longlife" cable to a "snap on" cable
    and I needed to know which one I had. When I described it to him, he
    identified it as the old type and said he would have to order one and
    it would be non-returnable. I could not bring him the old one since the
    boat is in northern Vermont. he suggested I try a dealer up there since
    the motors (mine is a '73) last forever and dealers have to stock more
    older parts. I took his advice and, sure enough, the dealer had one
    last weekend and I had it installed in about 20 minutes after I got it
    home. It was a good thing I had the info since the dealer up there
    initially handed the newer (wrong) one. It does come only as a complete
    assembly and it was $30 for an OEM Johnson cable. Back in business and
    ready for launch! Thanks for the input.
    
    Larry

re                       <<< Note 22.23 by NEMAIL::COLVIN >>>
>                             -< Found a Cable !! >-

>    boat is in northern Vermont. he suggested I try a dealer up there since
>    the motors (mine is a '73) last forever and dealers have to stock more
>    older parts. I took his advice and, sure enough, the dealer had one

	Was that my buddy Jim in Newport ?

	He had parts for a '58 35HP Sea Horse two years ago, they 
weren't his last few parts either.  Prices were OK too, though 
obviously not '58 prices.

	R

    Actually, it was a place just south of Middlebury. The name escapes me
    at the moment, but the place always looks like a bomb just went off, I
    don't know how they find anything!

re                       <<< Note 22.25 by NEMAIL::COLVIN >>>
>                              -< Near Middlebury >-

>    Actually, it was a place just south of Middlebury. The name escapes me
>    at the moment, but the place always looks like a bomb just went off, I
>    don't know how they find anything!

	Ahh, this is the secret of inventory control as an art.  
People like these  *_KNOW_*  what they have, where it is, how many
they have left, when to get more, what else you'll need to go with 
them, what special tools are also needed, how to get by without the 
special tools, what parts are now obsolete, what they can be replaced
by, how much to charge  - -  in2itively !   What they don't have they 
can often pick off a junk unit out behind the barn.  They seem to 
stay in business for 50+ years and all the time they're collecting 
parts for the next 50 years from other places that are going out of
business, "customers are gonna want some of these one day". 

	The ones to avoid are those that have compoot_ah terminals on 
the parts counter;  they know nothing about anything.  You have to
give them seventeen digit part numbers, their compoot_ah then sez
everything has been superceeded by part numbers with even more digits.
Those parts are either no longer available or no longer stocked
because there is no demand for them {waddYa mean, "no demand" ?  I
need one NOW !}.  These guys have a  "business model", they'll tell
you things like,  "they don't move fast enough for what our shelf
space costs us";  thats code for, "We don't know what our customers 
are going to come in here looking for".  Their goal seems to be to
stay in business for three years - some of them succeed, but barely -
their rent in the new Mall is so high....... 

	Reg


	


	

    
           The place referred to is Bronson's Marine. I bought my 22ft.
    Sylvan from this guy. You get a good deal on cost, but the service 
    might be lacking on warranties. It's on rte. 30 SW of Middlebury for 
    anyone interested.
    
           John

    
    
    	While I was crusing through the Auto section at Kmart the other day
    	I remembered that I needed a new set of plugs for my 1982 Johson
    	90hp.  I looked at the Champion chart, and in the back they had 
    	listings for marine engines.  There was no "90" listed.  There
    	were 88's and 100's, but no 90's.  Then I noticed that everything
    	on the list from 10hp up called for an L82c plug.  I checked the
    	racks and they were there, but were labelled "Motorcyle"...I 
    	rechecked the listing and verified the number, and bought 4.
    
    	When I got home, I pulled the cover and took a cap off one of the
    	plugs, and it's labelled "L77c JC-4"...
    
    	The plugs that are currently installed were put in by the dealer
    	I purchased the motor from last June (a Johnson dealer in R.I.).
    
    	Does anyone know what the difference is between these two plugs,
    	and which one I should be using?
    
    
    	Jim
    

    Jim,
    My Champion plug chart says your motor should take a QL77JC4,
    or an L77JC4.  The L82 is wrong.
    
    By the way, the "Q" plugs supposedly have some type of upgraded
    metal, or are treated in some way for the marine environment.
    I'm not sure exactly how or what, but do know you'll pay about
    5 clams a piece for the "Q' plugs, as opposed to about $1.50-2.00
    for the cheaper ones.
    
    Rick

    I have a 1978  25 Hp Johnson which 'died' this weekend.  The symptoms
    are low compression in both cylinders and it won't start.
    
    What things could cause low compression in both cylinders?
    
    There are NO OBVIOUS EXTERNAL signs as to the cause.  i.e. the head
    gasket, if blown is not blown EXTERNALLY.
    
    What about primary (crankcase) compression?  I suspect that is the
    problem, low primary compression.  What things could cause this?
    
    I know Rick Wilson is the guru, but I have been unable to contact him.
    
    Tx.  Jeff

    Broken reed valve(s)?  Blown crankshaft seals (lower seal will let
    water in and will show on plugs)?  Blown head gasket (between cylinders)?
    Broken ring in one cylinder (aren't they linked pressure-wise via the
    crankcase?)
    
    My best uneducated guess would be either the reed valves or the head
    gasket.
    
    Carl

    I have since talked to a number of outboard mechanics.  None think its
    the crankcase interseal.  They maintain the engine would still run if
    the interseal was the problem.  They vote for blown head gasket between
    cylinders.  I will pull it tonight and see.
    
    Fred, how are you doing with your British Seagulls?  Incidentally, my
    British Seagull got me home 4 miles when the OMC died.
    
    Jeff

    I'm new to power boating and need some advice on general maintenance
    for my mid 70's  Johnson 60hp (3 cyl). I've corrected a couple of 
    problems such as a new throttle cable and replaced a broken battery
    cable. The engine starts and runs well (with water muffs). My questions
    are: How long before the thermostat generally opens on these things? I
    didn't run it for more than a minute, but I didn't see any big
    discharge of water (I assume the water intake is low, screened, and
    on the lower part of the drive assembly. What ratio of oil to gas?
    Should I  change the lower unit gear oil? and what type? (electric
    shift). Any other maintenace items or things gto be aware of on this
    engine?
    
    
    
    Ross

    Ross,
    
    I have a 73 60HP Johnson. There are two ports where the water
    discharges from. Facing the motor from the rear, one port is on the
    left side near the water intake. The other is on the front edge of the
    lower unit (toward the boat) just above the level of the water intake.
    The one on the left side discharges water right away. The one on the
    fron edge takes upward to a minute before it discharges. I change the
    lower unit oil each spring. I have used the oil thta walmart sells. If
    in doubt, you can get the oil at your Johnson dealer. I use the TCW III
    oil mixed 1 pint to 6 galons of gas which is about 50 to 1. I trolled
    with this engine all last season on one set of plugs without a lot of
    fouling. Once in a while I would jazz her up a bit to clean her out.
    
    This wouldn't be the motor that was on a boat advertised for sale in here
    a couple of weeks ago would it. I was interested in it but someone beat
    me to it.
    
    John
     

    John, Yes it was the old glass boat advertised in here. Nice shape
    for the age. I just sorted out a couple of electrical problems and am 
    anxious to try it out. Am I correct in thinking the water intake(s) are
    screened ports just above the prop? I want to make sure water is
    circulating before I run it. I purchased some water muffs to hook it up
    to the hose.
    
    
    Ross

    Ross,
    
    Yes, the intake is the screened slots just above the prop.
    Never run the engine with out water as it will sieze up rather
    quickly. It is a good idea to run on the muffs occasionally 
    to make sure the water pump is working. You might want to ask the 
    people you bought the boat from when they replaced the water pump last.
    
    If you ever decide to get rid of the engine, let me know.
    
    Have fun.
    
    John
    

    The last owner had the lower end rebuilt last year. I don't know if the
    water pump was replaced or not. I'll check it over (with the muffs)
    before running any length of time. The only time I fired it was with
    the muffs and water hose attached.  I have cranked it a couple of times
    without gas, in order to troubleshoot a starter problem. I assume this
    will not adversely affect the impeller. 
    On the Johnson controls: What does the little red lever that's marked
    "start" do. I replaced the throttle cable, but can't see that this
    lever does much of anything.
    
    Ross

    The little red lever sets the engine to fast idle and should be up when
    starting. After it warms up a little, push the lever down.
    
    Cranking should do no harm to the impeller.
    
    John
    

    Lower end oil should be changed every (end of) season. If you don't
    know, do it now.
    
    If you should have power problems, look at new (or gunked) carb
    gaskets. I had this engine from 70-85. It never idled well by the way. 
    The gasket fix solves dried out factory gaskets that leak too much air
    and make it run lean.
    
    It it works, leave it alone. If you give it to a mechanic for something
    that's not needed, they will find MANY things that are. Corrosion has
    ways of destroying internals.

    Yes, I'll check the lower end lube before trying it out. Give it to a
    mechanic? Never! I always repair my own vehicles, that's half the fun.
    I've heard that these 3 cyl Johnsons were very reliable and long lived.
    I  would like to get a copy of the owners manual, any leads?
    
    Thanks
    Ross

    Ross, from page 101 of this month's Trailer Boat mag, "Working on an
    older Evinrude or Johnson? (1979 or older)  We can help with authentic
    service literature. 
     
    They have owners manuals, service manuals, and parts catalogs for
    outboards, sterndrives, and Evinrude and Johnson Snowmobiles. (I didn't 
    know they made them!)
    
    write to:
    Ken Cook Co
    DEPT. OML, P.O. box 18636
    Milwaukee, WI  53218
    
    or call weekdays 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM CST
    (414) 466-6060

    Ross running the motor with the muffs on will "NOT" tell you if the
    impeller is working. The hose supplies water at pressure that can make
    it past a bad impeller. When the boat is in the water the impeller is
    the only thing moving water through the engine. When you start it in
    the water make sure water starts exiting the exhaust port within a
    minute or two.

    Yes, I did an in water test last weekend and it was pretty
    non-eventful, (other than blowing out a $70 tire on my Dodge when
    launching the boat). I ran the engine for a while and it seemed to be
    circulating water well and didn't appear to come close to overheating.
    This motor seems to have a lot of beans and moved the little glass boat
    quite well. My next step is to get a ratty prop reconditioned. Any
    recommendations in the Nashua area?
    I hope to take a run with it in the Nashua river tomorrow. This will 
    probably clean out my other prop! Anyone experienced with this river?
    
    
    Ross

Ross,

	Easiest way to get your prop done? Drop it off at local marina
that deals with H&H Propeller in Salem, Ma. H&H gives the marina a
discount, the marina tacks on their profit and you end up paying what
you'd pay if you drove to Salem, Ma just less the long drive....

	I've used Forrest Marine in Tyngsboro to perform this H&H
prop service, but I'm not sure if they still do as they are getting out
of the boating market in favor of the RV and Megabucks market. (How odd...)

	See the later replies to note number 1115 for a few thoughts
on the Nashua river.


Rick

Power and Motoryacht magazine just published an interesting article about
the new OMC outboards.

Basically, engines from 2 to 15 hp are going to be 4 cycle! 

Above 15 hp will still be 2 cycle, but completely redesigned using two
different fuel injection technologies depending on the size of the
engines, one from Germany the other from <forgot>. They're called LEAP2
and LEAP3. In both cases, the pistons will have no intake port. Pollution
goes down, efficiency goes up. As I recall, LEAP2 involves a computer
control unit and direct cylinder fuel injection at 200cpi pressure, with
oil injection somewhere else; LEAP3 injects a fuel/oil mixture.

Not exactly a flurry of activity in this note...

I have a 1988 Johnson 15 that I bought new. It came with a tank that has
two compartments: one for gas, one for oil. The tank senses the fuel flow
rate, and provides the proper mixture ratio depending on the speed at
which you're running the engine. I've never had a lick of trouble with
this, through eight seasons.

Now, my cousin just visited a large NE Johnson dealer, and was dealing to
buy a new rig. He mentioned my engine, and the gas/oil tank setup.
Someone at that dealership said "You mean he's still doing that? Nobody
told him that it didn't work?"

When I run hard it uses a lot of oil. When I troll a lot it uses very
little oil. That, to me, sounds like a functioning variable ratio setup. 

Did I *really* miss a bulletin or something? Was I supposed to start
premixing?

Art

I have a 1987 110HP VRO Johnson and the oil injector has
been working fine. I keep the boat at the marina where I
bought the engine and they've said nothing about the need
to premix. The told me about the carbon build up problems 
how to deal with it myself. I do most/all the PM work
myself on the engine without any broblems in 9 years.
Jim

    We have a 1986 9.9 Longshaft Electrice start Johnson with the seperate
    oil compartment in the fuel tank on our 22 foot sailboat.
    
    This is the seventh season the we have had the boat. Now, I do not run
    this puppy a whole bunch, but when I do it gives me absolutley NO
    problem. Oh, it has started to stall at very low speed just this
    season. Certainly time to change plugs. But, my point is that the
    automatic oil feature seems to work well.
    
    After starting the engine when I first apply power to get the boat
    moving, I sense that there may be some deposits in the cylinders. As it
    accelerates it can seem a bit rough but once it runs with a bit of speed
    it clears right and runs quite smoothly.
    
    I hope this auto oiling is ok, I sure do not want to spring for another
    engine any time real soon. If I ever do, I will probably sell myself on
    a 4 stroke.
    
    Fred