Conference 7.286::dcu

    Question?
    
    Why do you bother doing business with DCU?  It seems that all the
    inconvenience that you go through is not worth it.  DCU interest
    rates are not the greatest rates going, either for loans or savings
    accounts.  You certainly have alternatives.
        
    Just a suggestion.
    
    Joe
    

        At the time I opened the account, it was the only choice offered
        for direct deposit and free checking. As a checking account it
        works fine, I just think that the thousands of members in the
        field are entitled to the same service as those in select areas.
        
        Maybe Chicago dollars aren't worth as much to DCU as Boston
        dollars? 

    RE 37.2
    >>Maybe Chicago dollars aren't worth as much to DCU as Boston dollars
    
    Let's not get ridiculous.  The DCU is just like any other bank in
    the sense that it can only service a certain area without overextending
    its ability.  The DCU is headquartered in Mass, and so it only seems
    natural that Mass would be its best serviced area.  If you are not
    happy with the service DCU is supplying, you can either switch to
    another bank or work to help improve DCU.
    
    I get pretty tired of constantly hearing from field personnel how
    they are treated like second-class people.  Not everyone is going
    to get equal service from DCU.  Do you really think that Citibank
    services its remotest branches with the same service that its central
    Manhattan branches get?  I hardly believe so.
    

    < Note 37.3 by 24699::FULTZ "ED FULTZ" >
                     -< IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY THEN SWITCH >-

    
�    I get pretty tired of constantly hearing from field personnel how
�    they are treated like second-class people.  

    Well, how open minded.  What are your attitudes toward customers?
    
    Did it ever enter your mind that if a lot of people from different
    places who don't know each other say the same things that it might
    just be TRUE?
    
    Are we to assume that you have one of those tasteful Boston posters
    that show it as the center of the universe?
    
    How about doing the RIGHT thing and working as a team toward a common
    goal?
    
    Thanks for your brief attention,
    
    Don (No longer in the field but still remembers what is important)

.3>    Do you really think that Citibank services its remotest branches
.3>    with the same service that its central Manhattan branches get?

    Yes, I do.

    R

    Re: .5
    
    I believe that your belief is a bit naive.
    
    I cannot see anyway that DCU can really provide the same level of
    service to those of us who live out here away from greater Maynard as
    it does to those who do.
    
    I do, however, believe that they should improve the service that
    we DO get.  Doing business remotely is VERY painful.  I've got to
    believe that they could make a lot better use of computer technology
    to allow use to communicate with them.
    
    It would certainly seem that DCU should be able to implement banking
    by terminal.  Playing telephone tag with the 'remote' branch is
    the real pits.
    
    Don

    Yeah, maybe they could use VAXen and run VTX or something...
    
    Perry

    I have been a DCU member for about 8 months, in San Diego, and so
    far they have handled my accounts well. The main reasons I am a
    member are to "salt" money away from my regular auto-deposit checking
    account and to get electronic deposits of travel reimbursements.
    The travel reimebursements have been accurate and at least twice
    as fast as getting the old check in interoffice mail. I don't really
    draw on the other services. Have never used a DCU ATM, don't know
    if there is one in our time zone/area code. It strikes me that there
    might be some ways to better use the central resources, remoteley.
    Here is some broad speculation.....
    1. The Field Service logistics centers have company wide security
    requirements, stronger than other facilities. Suppose that DCU issued
    certified checks could be printed there, locally to each field office.
    
    2. How about posting current interest rates, loan application details
    and other needed trivia in the notes file or VTX. 
    
    3. How about account reports on-line, with the same security features
    offered on the touch-tone system?
    
    I don't ever expect to see any DCU offices outside of the greater
    Maynard metro-complex and as long as they support account activity
    accurately I sort of don't care. I would like to see DCU be active
    about real estate loans out of state and to be as competitive as
    possible in loan rates. Participation in remote ATM systems would
    be very desirable, but not at excessive transaction fee rates.
    

    ..just to tie some of these notes together..
    
    I live in Massachusetts.
    
    I have an account at Citibank.
    
    I do all my Citibank transactions from home (via dialup into their
    online home banking system).
    
    Rich
    
    [I also use the DCU]

>    I don't ever expect to see any DCU offices outside of the greater
>    Maynard metro-complex

DCU has branches outside of the 3M (Maynard, Marlboro, Merrimack) area:

Burlington, Vermont
either Phoenix or Albuquerque, I've forgotten which
Puerto Rico.

/john

Even those of us lucky enough to have a branch outside the 3M area are
not quite full citizens.  It seems that people who are ``loan officers''
are not permitted to make decisions or judgements on such issues as
loan approvals...they take your paperwork, make a rough guess if you
qualify, and send it all ``back-East''.  Some indetreminate time later
``the committee'' makes a decision, at which time  you are notified.
 Apparently,  these people are empowered to watch you sign the acceptance
form and hand you a cheque.  That's it.

If the ``loan officer'' is out of the office for some time, you simply
have to wait until they get back so they can deal with you.

Anything important (such as top-cheque orders), loan repayments, etc.
are phoned in.  In the case of a loan repayment, I was told that my
loan was (car) paid in full but I might get a bill anyway so I should
just ignore it if they send me one.

    Actually, they just opened a branch at the Landover, MD facility
    (DCO) this week.  It seems that we finally reached the magic number
    of 1,000 employees in the facility.  Of course, we reached that
    number some time ago (we're just under 1,600 now) but it took them
    a while to do all the approvals and build the branch, etc.  We don't
    get an ATM though (at least I didn't see one.)
         
    Perry

I have two checking accounts, one is personal (local bank) the other business
(DCU). In Iowa we have an ATM network that is quite extensive. I can use almost
any ATM within 300 miles (Chicago,Minneapolis,Omaha,& Kansas City included).
It really bothers me that I can't use the ATM system with my credit union
account because the credit union obviously feels that the people of the midwest
are not worth the expense of subscribing to one of (and there are many) networks
that have access to this system. I called the toll free number to find the 
nearest ATM for a DCU account and was told there are "NONE-ZERO-NADA-0" in Iowa 
and the closest is Minneapolis. DCU doesn't even have to open an office here!
the network is already set up and DCU could contract one of the networks to 
handle DCU ATM's by any digital employee in practically the entire midwest.
I am sure this type of arrangement would service at least 1000 employees
and the headache of service on the ATM's would be non-existant.
                                   
    
JUST A NOTE!    
    People who are tired of reading this kind of note shouldn't be reading
    the notes file.

    Re: .13
    
    >> People who are tired of reading this kind of note shouldn't be
    reading the notes file.
    
    WELL SAID.  Are you listening and learning .1 and .3.
    
    
    JEF

	I want to again re-iterate my point about how much DCU spends to 
support the field/DCU locations. I currently must pay $1.00 to get money
out of my DCU account. What does it cost for a DCU counter-person to hand
out money to each person requesting a withdrawal on a per transaction basis?

	I feel the ATM fee should reflect the fact that by having DCU 
members interacting with the ATM costs them less in overhead than maintaining
DCU offices.

	Any opinions?

    
    
    The banks in Iowa charge NOTHING for using ATM's. I guess they consider
    their costs to operate them as part of the cost of doing business.

    Just a note.  This is not defending the DCU, so don't start attacking
    and throwing the rocks.  One possible reason the DCU hasn't contracted
    with ATM groups in some states could be if they are not aware of
    them.  A large network here in Mass is MONEC.  Because it is in
    the Mass area, DCU is aware of it.  The $1.00 that we are charged
    is the MONEC fee that DCU passes along to us.  If they were made
    aware of the service in IOWA or wherever, then maybe they would
    consider joining.
    
    One other possible reason is that there are expenses associated
    with being connected with other groups ATM network.  For example,
    they would have to generate a computer tape to be sent to the
    appropriate group.  They would also have to receive a computer tape
    from the group so that they could update their records.
    
    One thing I don't understand is why there can't be a DCU branch
    in the larger DEC branches.  It wouldn't even have to be open 5
    days a week if that is not needed.  If a person were to service
    say 3 facilities, they could travel to each on the day(s) designated.
    
    Again, if you are not happy with the service, then there is always
    the competition.  Sometimes that is the only way to get an unresponsive
    organization to become responsive.  After all, look at what happened
    to Chrysler Corp and what is happening to GM.
    
    Ed..
    

    Are either Cirrus or Plus networks available in Iowa?  These are the
    two major national ATM networks, and DCU belongs to Plus.  Cirrus is
    bigger, but I believe that the networks are mutually exclusive (though
    regional networks aren't; hence there are some Pocketbank/Cirrus
    machines that DCU members can use).  Thus, if Cirrus is available but
    Plus isn't, then the solution is to get DCU to switch to Cirrus from
    Plus; my guess is that that is highly unlikely, and would upset
    all of the members living in places where Plus is more popular. 
    
    If neither Cirrus nor Plus are available, then there is probably some
    reason independent of DCU that discourages the national networks.  The
    solution then isn't to get DCU to pick up a regional network (again,
    highly unlikely except in high DCU density areas), but to get the Iowa
    banks to pick up the national networks. 
    
       Gary

    
>        and throwing the rocks.  One possible reason the DCU hasn't contracted
>    with ATM groups in some states could be if they are not aware of
>    them.  A large network here in Mass is MONEC.  Because it is in
>    the Mass area, DCU is aware of it.  The $1.00 that we are charged
>    is the MONEC fee that DCU passes along to us.  If they were made
>    aware of the service in IOWA or wherever, then maybe they would
>    consider joining.

    
    NOT BEING AWARE is not acceptable. If DCU wants to service employees
    of DEC, it should make itself aware of all the locations where DEC
    has offices, how many employees of each location have accounts with
    DCU, etc.
    
    I live in the Chicago Area and as far as the PLUS System goes, I've
    only seen one in this area (which happens to be close enough to
    my house fortunately). I too have two accounts, one with DCU and
    one with a local bank. I have automatic deposit of my paycheck to
    DCU and use it for writing checks. Anything else I need I do it
    thru my local bank. The additional convenience of DCU in the field
    is that Plan B checks, reimbursement of expense vouchers, etc. can
    also be automatically deposited to your DCU if you want. I don't
    know if you can have this done to any other bank.
    
    

RE .14
    
>    Re: .13
>    
>    >> People who are tired of reading this kind of note shouldn't be
>    reading the notes file.
>    
>    WELL SAID.  Are you listening and learning .1 and .3.
    
    	I was considering placing an entry somewhere in this conference
    	concerning the high concentration of gripes in here.  Thanks
    	to .13 and .14 I have a great hook on which to place it.
    
    	My belief is that the people who are tired of WRITING the gripes
    	shouldn't be participating in this notesfile!  Replies .1 and
    	.3 are right on target.  If you don't like the service, GO
    	ELSEWHERE.  Complaining to the readers of this conference gets
    	you nowhere.  Notify DCU as to why you are cancelling your accounts
    	and split.  That is the only way DCU will get your message.
    
    	Nobody likes a whiner.  Even if DCU had an account somewhere
    	on the net, do you really think they would WANT to get involved
    	with this?  Of course not!  Who would want to subject themselves
    	to this type of abuse?!?  This conference has turned into a
    	wailing wall.  I started reading it hoping that it would be
    	filled with info about the latest interest rates, new loan
    	programs, etc.  My first impression is that somebody amassed
    	a group of discontents and decided to have a pity party.

    	Personally I have had a great deal of success with DCU.  Of
    	course I live in the 3-M area, so DCU is more convenient for
    	me.  DCU is not a Chase Manhattan.  You guys out in Left Overshoe, 
    	Kansas, what is the big deal about staying with DCU, especially
    	if they give you such lousy service by your standards?  There
   	must be SOME benefit to staying and putting up with the problems.

    	You keep comparing DCU to your glorious local bank.  If that
    	bank is so good, then use their services instead!
    
    	Joe Oppelt

>                 <<< CEDARS::DBA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DCU.NOTE;1 >>>
>                                    -< DCU >-
>===============================================================================
>Note 1.0               $$$ Welcome To DCU Notesfile $$$              No replies
>CEDARS::SUNNAA                                      14 lines   7-FEB-1987 10:56
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    
>    
>    	This notesfile has been established to provide a forum to discuss
>    	Digital Credit Union issues, problems, and to exchange information
>    	related to it.
>    
>    	Participation in this file is open.

  
  I took the opportunity to post the above to give you all an opportunity to 
  re-read the purpose of this conference.  I think it is self explanatory.  

  Although I'm not a moderator, I'd like to request that flames/complaints 
  directed toward other individuals be kept to a minimum and posted offline 
  if possible.  
  
-Andy

    RE 37.18
    
    GARY
    
    Funny you should mention the Cirrus network, That happens to be
    the network associated woth my local bank. The Plus isn't worth
    much unless you live on the coast.
    
    
    Mike

>    	My belief is that the people who are tired of WRITING the gripes
>    	shouldn't be participating in this notesfile!  Replies .1 and
>    	.3 are right on target.  If you don't like the service, GO
>    	ELSEWHERE.  
>    
>    	Nobody likes a whiner.  

Right on!  If you guys are sick of being suckers and subsidizing 
services you get no benefit from, then beat feet -- the Barnum principal 
has demonstrated the Law of Conservation of Suckers.

	I started reading it hoping that it would be
    	filled with info about the latest interest rates, new loan
    	programs, etc.  

Again, Right on!  Who cares that the reason credit unions were 
established as a separate service from banks was that they were supposed 
to provide affordable loans to the members?  Who cares that they're
supposed to provided services at lower cost to their members? (Eastern
Air Lines Credit union is giving 30-year fixed rate morgages at 8.5%
with no points. No charges for using other people's banking machines.)
THAT'S HISTORY!! This is the 80's!  I want to learn how I can get my
piece of the pie from you suckers, I don't want to have to read your
stinking complaints about bad treatment -- just give us your money so 
I can have my high interest rates or get out of Dodge.

					>>>==>PStJTT

    
    
    Alright...here is the word from the moderator....
    
    I have been reading all this exchange, and was hoping that you Noters
    would resolve it by yourselves without me interfering. 
    
    But, as I have given up that hope here are some points that I would
    like everyone to remember:
    
    1. NO exchange of isults here. The purpose of this file is NOT to
       insult, degrade, put-down other people. Notes of that nature
       will be removed. One has already been removed. Noters in this
       file are expected to be civil, polite, civilized,  and
       respectful of other people, and their opinions.  If you find
       that you are not, and cannot be then Please GO somewhere else.
    
    2. NO one has the right to tell/ask/order anyone else to stop 
       noting/reading/griping...etc. This file is OPEN FOR ALL.
                             
       
    Please try to adhere to those rules. I am sure we can all manage.
                                                 
    Your moderator,
    
    Nisreen Sunnaa
    
    
    PS: this note will be posted also in the introduction note.

    Re: .22
    
    Well, then, that's the problem.  As far as I know, Cirrus is certainly
    the bigger network, though I imagine there are pockets where Plus
    is more popular.  The real problem for you is that you seem to
    live in an area where Cirrus has a virtual monopoly.  I've always
    been fortunate enough to live in areas where both networks were
    available, thus giving me far more choices.  
    
    I can sympathize with your problem, but I only see three possibilities,
    none high:
    
    1. DCU could join a regional network in your area.  I'd have to
    believe that then need a certain threshold of business to justify
    this, which implies to me that it isn't very likely.
    
    2. They could switch from Plus to Cirrus.  The people in high Cirrus
    areas would notice an improvement, while the people in high Plus areas
    would notice a decrease.  People in areas where both are popular (which
    includes DEC's MA/NH areas) wouldn't notice much of a difference.  The
    problem, then, is really to justify the cost of a move.  My guess is
    that it can't be justified, because the cost of switching networks is
    too high relative to the advantages to the members.  This doesn't
    mean that those advantages aren't real, but rather that switching
    networks is probably very expensive.
    
    3. Cirrus and Plus could give up this stupid war that prohibits
    banks from being on both networks.  This is the same as the situation
    several years back, when banks could issue MasterCards or Visas,
    but not both.  As in that earlier situation, one of the networks
    is agreeable while the other is holding out.
    
    My guess is that this is the most likely solution, but that you'll
    have to wait a few years for it to happen.  In the meantime, you
    might want to pursue options 1 or 2 with the DCU board, but I wouldn't
    be too hopeful.
    
       Gary

    One bank ( or credit union in this case ) cannot be all things to
    all people. I have been a DCU member since its' inception. I have
    a share draft account with DCU and think the free checking is a
    great deal. The RSVP program is another good program. But being
    a field employee, I realize that I still need a local bank account
    for check cashing, emergency funds, ect. My IRA is through a broker.
    My mastercard is through another bank because they offer a 25 day
    grace period and no annual fee. You shop around for the best buys,
    just like everything else.

re:

< Note 37.20 by GOLD::OPPELT "If they can't take a joke, screw 'em!" >
                     -< OK folks, get your rocks ready... >-

>    	You keep comparing DCU to your glorious local bank.  If that
>    	bank is so good, then use their services instead!

I do use my local bank rather than the DCU for all my day-to-day
activities. I use the DCU only for automated things like holding my 
mortgage until I draw my one draft a month.  I try to avoid the DCU
office (as a guard told me one day, "its Monday - don't expect the lines
to let up until 2:30"), their hours (would you believe 7:30 to 3:30?!?),
their half-month christmas vacations, and their ATMs.

The DCU does have some benefits - pseudo competitive interest rates,
to name one (UBGOG has lower loan rates and better CD rates - but not
enough to make a significant difference).  Another is that I can easily
change the allocation of my paycheck because of the proximity DCU has
with corporate payroll.

In general, I chose to do the bulk of my business with a financial
institution with better hours, more service, more people, and better
utilized reasources.

Funny, Joe, this sounds like the "love it or leave it" discussion going
on in DIGITAL.  

BobW

    My own experience with the DCU has been both positive and negative.
    I work in Westboro, MA at US Field Service Headquarters.  There
    are two sites here and DCU does not have an ATM or branch here.
     The town of Westboro is small and the traffic through Westboro
    center (where the banks/atms are) is atrocious.  To deal with the
    DCU directly, I have to drive up to Marlboro.  Not a major drive,
    but sometimes its a hassle.  Spending my lunch hour up there does
    not always thrill me.  It is true, as talked about in another note,
    that their statements do not always make sense.  And I understand
    the ATM charge, but I've had teller cards at other banks and did
    not get charged this fee (even on MONEC systems), so occasionally
    this fee bothers me.  I also have heard complaints about the Credit
    Union giving hassles about loans, although I don't have a loan with
    them and would like to hear more from other noters on this aspect
    of DCU dealings.
    
    On the positive side, I do like being on the PLUS system.  We do
    travel and, at first, I was looking in phone books in remote cities
    for banks with the PLUS logo.  They don't always have them in the
    book.  To find the ATM that will take your card dial 1800843-7587.
    They will ask you to punch in your area code and tell you where
    the nearest location is, but you can punch in any area code in case
    you need to know before you get there.  I have found a machine almost
    anywhere I've been.  (In the 312 area there only seemed to be machines
    in Rolling Meadows, but thats where I was anyway.  Perhaps in the
    future they will move closer to Chicago).
    
    I have never been associated with a bank or credit union that I
    couldn't complain about.  They always seem to be doing something
    that makes sense only to them, and its different bank to bank.
    So far, the DCU hasn't been too big of a problem and if I move
    to another bank, I don't think I'll be completely satisfied there
    either.  With banks, thats the way it seems to be.
    
    One question for noters:  sometimes I read a note referring to
    "those of us out here" and I don't know where "out here" is.  Maybe
    you could be more specific where you're writing from.  Thanks.
    
    
    

    Can anyone confirm a 'rumor' about the PLUS system.  I recieved
    a new EASYCASH card last week that is for the CIRRUS system.  My
    old PLUS system card worked in any ATM that I could find here in
    Colorado Springs.  Since I have recieved the new card the old card
    no longer works anywhere.  After calling the 3 1-800 numbers to
    find the *nearest* ATM's I found that there is only one machine
    currently in this city that accepts my *new* card.  I called DCU
    to find out what was the deal and was told that the PLUS system
    is going out of business that's why the new card...boy such a deal..
    huh??  
    
            Is PLUS system really going out of business??
    
                                          -=> Jim <=-
    
    

    I also received the new EASYCASH card last week.  The old card worked
    in ATMs from at least two banks while the new card works in none
    of them.  I called all three number 800 numbers and was told by
    each of them that they have no affiliated ATMs in Vermont at all.
    
    I hope the CIRRUS card makes life easier for somebody, presumably
    somebody in Mass. because it is quite useless up here.
    
    Larry Sojda
   

    I understand how you feel....
    
    
                                  -=> Jim <=- in Colorado Springs

   RE: -.1
    
    Sure do.....
    
    		Here in Colorado Springs, we went from over 50 plus
    		system ATM's to 1 Cirrus Teller.  Sounds like progress
    		to me.
    
    -wj

       Did anyone check into this before the switch? Doesn't look like
    they cared much, does it? I'd switch banks.
                                                       Denny

    This is spelled ***COMMUNICATIONS*** and once again it appears that
    someone, "worker bee, manager, or BOD" failed and failed badly to
    completely research out the impact this change would have on the
    large portion of the membership who have had these cards.
    
    
    It seems like it is more than just coincidence that we have had
    another "failure" or lack of proper planning by OUR credit union.
    Or is it really our credit union.  If the response is "there was
    a problem in the change over to the new cards and usability with
    other cash networks then the old cards should have been left as
    they were until the entire process was firmly in place.  But to
    leave as many members as it appears we have in the lurch just because
    something hasn't been implemented which may be beyond our control
    comes across as gross incompetence on someones part.
    
    
    I am aware that this comes across quite strong but I firmly believe
    that someone is not paying attention to the published frustrations
    of a vocal segment of the credit union membership.
    
    
    JSq
    
    P.S. You may use my name in forwarding this to the C.U. mgmt.
    

       Seems to me they simply don't CARE!
                                               Denny

   runs in the family.  We were *supposed* to have members who met with
    the president and who were *supposed* to report the results?
    Now this isn't a part of their job description, and it took personal
    time [and money?], and they were nice to have done it, etc, but
    damm, they caught the same problem as all of DCU has.  They have
    shut up and don't say anything.
    We were supposed to have a member who stripped our comments out
    and sent them in for review by someon in DCU who would return
    comments.  This happen once [that we know of].  Even then, DCU choose
    not to comment on all issues.
    
    If I sound like I'm trying to beat up on those who tried to communicate
    with DCU, I'm not.  BUT LET US BE LEVEL AND STRAIGHT AMOUNG OURSELVES.
    Lets not pretend that something is happening that isn't.
    
    I'm on the verge of switching to a real bank.  Darn shame.  With
    a little  caring and communications, DCU could be something for
    US.
ed

       I'm going to switch the first of the year if we don't start getting
    answers.
                                          denny

    RE: .37
    
    {maintainer-of-batch-mailing-of-new-entries-to-DCU-BOD-chair; HAT_ON}

    While you clearly state that you're not flaming at those folks trying
    to help communications... I must say that the heat can still be felt. 

    I am the person who maintains the software batch process that extracts
    the new entries from this conference and mails them to the chairman of
    the board (again a DEC employee). I wish to assure the noters of this
    VAXnotes conference on the DCU, that I do test to see if the message
    you leave here does reach the DCU. 

    There are several steps in this process that are supposed to result in
    "communication". I have spoken to Mark Steinkrauss and John Tilley to
    confirm that the information is reaching them and that each is passing
    on the mailings they receive.
    
    As noted in 37.37, DCU did make a response, officially in this
    conference. I too look forward to more of them. I believe this was a
    start and encourage the DCU to ACTIVELY respond in some visible form to
    the issues raised.
    
    I wish to suggest (and not excuse the DCU in the process) that
    electronic "bulletin-board" communication is a new and "risky" means
    for a corporation (like the DCU) to communicate. The risk comes from
    answering too quickly or without the checks and balances of other
    communication forms. 
        
    {maintainer-of-batch-mailing-of-new-entries-to-DCU-BOD-chair; HAT_OFF}
    
    {plain-ordinary-noter; HAT_ON}

    This still assumes the DCU should respond.

    In note 63 (reply .4 I think), an issue is raised regarding the ratio
    of information in the DCU newsletter. This is as true (my humble
    opinion) for the newsletter as it is for the pink-ish flier that seems
    to come with every monthly statement. 

    I believe that amount of expense and communication space the DCU uses
    to advertise its home loan programs (equity especially) is much out of
    balance. I believe that the perceived need of the (DCU) membership is
    to know more about the DCU's future plans, to have a means to provide
    (customer) feedback (to the DCU) and to see the DCU's answers or
    positions on issues raised either in this conference or via other
    communication methods (letters, phone calls, in-person, other?). 
    
    {plain-ordinary-noter; HAT_OFF}
    
    Carl Leeber
    SWATT::LEEBER

                To back up Carl in an indirect manner; I have been
        personally contacted by a member of the DCU Board about some of
        the notes that I have entered here. That person feels that they
        can get more info to/from us by personal contact when
        appropriate. (I wish I could remember the name - I hate to keep
        saying "that person".) I haven't entered any comments on what
        was said between us, because there were a lot of "I'm looking
        into this" and "I'm looking for more information on what you
        mean" in the conversation than hard information to pass on to
        us. What I am trying to get at is the fact that there IS more
        than one route into the Board than the one Carl is taking care
        of. I am thouroughly convinced that the DCU people are making
        sure of what they say before they say it in a forum that is so
        "concrete" as a conference must be by nature.
                
                Just so that I don't leave the false impression that I
        am totaly satisfied with the DCU - I  definitely am not; but I
        do find that it has some advantages for me that for the uses I
        put it to, I am satisfied. I do wish that the DCU was such that
        I could put it to more uses, though.
                
                /s/     Bob

    In all fairness to the Credit Union, the reason that they changed
    the ATM cards was because the MONEC system was being shut down by
    the bank supporting it (Bank of Boston?).  They, I am sure, did
    a study to see what other systems were available.  The CIRRUS system
    is supported on the BayBank ATM machines, and it was probably felt
    that this would give the most access.  The reason that they don't
    have both PLUS and CIRRUS, is because BOTH OF THEM ARE BEING STUPID
    BY SAYING THAT ONLY ONE OR THE OTHER IS ALLOWED.  The two systems
    are currently in a battle for market share.  As such, neither wants
    to share "their" customers with the other.  Right now, I would view
    CIRRUS as winning this battle, and wish that PLUS would change their
    policy.  This would allow the credit union to add PLUS back on the
    system, and would probably regain a large amount of the access that
    the Vermonters and others have lost.
    
    But as I stated, DCU did not just arbitrarily decide to change the
    ATM to have something to do.  I am sure there is enough other work
    for them to do.  As for communications, I was one of the people
    who met with the President.  The reason I did not specify any results
    from the meeting was because there were really no concrete points
    defined.  We did successfully, I think, get across how bad the
    communication problem has gotten.  They said that they would look
    into improving the situation.  They also said that they do not just
    add services without first insuring that these services are able
    to support themselves without support from the other services.
    
    They reiterated that a credit card would be forthcoming shotly.
     We expressed concern that this was probably not needed, but they
    assured us that this was not being subsidized by the other services.
     I expressed my own sentiment that I do not mind increasing services,
    but it shuld IN NO WAY impact our rates.
    
    They also mentioned that the reason our savings rates do not always
    appear to match to the other credit unions in the area were:
    
    		1) The other credit unions many times have just one
    		   or two branches, where DCU must service many branches
    		   around Digital.
    
    		2) The rates are kept in balance with the national rates,
    		   as opposed to the rates here in New England.  It
    		   appears that New England tends to have higher rates
    		   than the rest of the country.  Thus, we in New England
    		   must occasionally take lower rates, while some people
    		   in other parts might get a slightly higher rate than
    		   is being offered.  This often happens when you try
    		   to balance out nationwide, rather than regionally.
    
		3) They have been making a strong effort to avoid placing
    		   any fees on the accounts.  They feel, and I agree,
    		   that the members would much rather have no fee than
    		   a slightly higher interest rate, but service fees.
    
    FWIW: I did not feel it was appropriate to put any message in response
    to the meeting, because no specific action items were discussed,
    short of beefing up the communications effort.  Oh yes, we did discuss
    the fact that the BOD has not done any comprehensive surveying of
    the membership as a whole.  I got the impression that this was going
    to be considered.
    
    Ed..
    

re: The last several

Please do not lose sight of the fact that this conference is NOT the way to
be communicating with members, either to pass on information or to get it.
Not all DCU members read this conference; some are not even employees!!! So
while this gets some feedback across (both ways) it should NOT be considered
to be the sole means, or even the BEST means, of communications.

-Joe

    re.0
    I too find this to be true. The recent change to cirrus diden't
    consider the negative implications to those of us in Colorado
    where cirrus machines are as rare as chicken teeth.
    
    -j
    

    Carl Leeber
    {maintainer_of_batch_mailing_of_new_entries_to_DCU_BOD_Chair}

        Well, it's over a year since I started this note, and I'm now a
        class or two lower :-( 
        
        DCU still has no intention of putting a branch here in Chicago,
        even thou we now have this huge "office of the future", with no
        A/C in the hot summer days, and no space for the people. 
        
        Second, and worse, today I called DCU to find out about mortgage
        rates. I'm about to have a house built. Their response was that
        since I live in Chicago, not the 3M area, they won't give me a
        mortgage! How's that for equal service to all members. 
        
        I'm really pissed at this. Unfortunately what I say here won't do
        any good. Taking my money elsewhere will still leave DCU screwed
        up. I intent to write to each board member, but don't really
        expect that to accomplish anything. The only alternative I see is
        to get someone from the field on the DCU board. What are the
        requirements to be a DCU officer? Want to bet that (practically
        speaking) you have to live in the 3M area to be on the board? I've
        got no experience in banking, and would assume that such
        experience would be needed of a board member, but right now I'm
        pissed off enough that if no one else steps forward, I'd stick my
        name in the hat, just to rock the boat around a bit. 

        There is no technical restriction to where board members
        are from.  However, the DCU doesn't cover expenses for
        board meetings, which are generally in Maynard, so you'd
        either have to pay expenses yourself or miss meetings.
        (I got this information from someone at the DCU prior to
        the last (or last-before-last) election.)
        
        To get on the ballot, you must be nominated by the "nominating
        committee", which I believe consists of the Chairman of
        the Board and a couple of other board members.  Alternately,
        you can circulate a petition among DCU members, but federal
        credit union rules require that 10% of the members sign
        it.  I don't know how many members there are, but we're
        talking about "thousands" of signatures.
        
Jim Stratton
        

Much as I have my problems with DCU, I'm not sure I can hold against 
them their unwillingness to offer mortgages in Chicago.  Here in MA, 
they had to link up with a local bank (Bank of Boston), and I'm sure 
there are a number of fixed costs involved (local staffing, bank fees, 
etc).  Perhaps its not fiscally responsible for them to set up
mortgages in a given state unless they can reasonably expect some
reasonable volume of business.  Perhaps the same argument can be made 
for a branch - how many DEC employees are in the Chicago area?

    Re .45:
    
>   DCU still has no intention of putting a branch here in Chicago, ...
                     
    I'm not convinced that it makes economic sense for DCU to be "branch"
    oriented in serving a far-flung company like Digital.  Clearly it makes
    sense to have branches where the largest concentrations of members
    reside, but it would seem to make MORE sense to focus on delivering
    competitive services by telephone, ATM and mail. 
    
    Credit unions that cater to military members are very good at this type
    of support.  They know their members are spread all over the world, but
    they still attempt to provide service to them.  In the same vein, USAA
    (insurance, catering to past/present military officers) does nearly all
    its business by phone and mail from San Antonio, TX. 
    
>   Second, and worse, today I called DCU to find out about mortgage rates.
>   I'm about to have a house built. Their response was that since I live
>   in Chicago, not the 3M area, they won't give me a mortgage! How's that
>   for equal service to all members.
    
    This could be a blessing in disguise.  You'll find horror stories
    elsewhere in this conference which don't give me great faith in DCU's
    handling of first mortgages.  I'm a bit surprised DCU even offers such
    a product.
    
    A further complication is that mortgages play by varying rules from
    state to state.  The lender needs to have attorneys in the state where
    the mortgage is granted in order to protect its interests.
    
    One place where you DON'T want to be a pioneer is with a mortgage.  The
    lender doesn't know its exact costs, so they'll estimate high.  They
    don't want to get stuck with any surprises if local consumer law won't
    allow lenders to pass them onto the borrower.  If/when you get to the
    closing, there's likely to be some last item which has been uncovered
    that you'll have to pay for on the spot.  They you'll be writing nasty
    notes here again.