Conference 7.286::dcu

        The Bedford DCU branch only has three people working there.
        When one of the two customer service reps is out, life
        is difficult for the other one.  When the manager is out,
        things like special problems, loan applications, and so
        on, don't get handled right away.
        
        In short, BUO can't afford to give up one of its employees.
        

Yes, but if an ATM was there as an 8-5, no breaks, 'teller' for 
routine transactions, a lot fewer people would need window service

        Except on Thursdays, when paychecks and "per diem" checks
        (BUO is the training center in Bedford) come out - then
        the three regular people can barely handle it and an ATM
        wouldn't be much help.
        

    	And there are those of us who refuse to use ATMs...
    
    					--Doug

    I wanna know how the mill rates an ATM *and* a branch office right
    next to each other! :-)
    
    Sometimes I wonder about what the policies actually are for placement
    of the ATM's. I would have thought the ATM would have been in another
    high traffic area near an entrance but away from the teller's windows.
    
    On that other hand, I like the way Colorado Springs branch office
    is laid out - the office is right off the lobby so that non-employees
    do not need an escort.
    
    Just ranting and raving,
    Bryan

    Re: .4 -
    
    Why, in 1987, would an employee of a *computer company*
    not use an ATM?

                I'll use an ATM for getting money or checking balances,
        but to make a payment (where I'm expected to put something
        physical like a check [or worse, cash]) into one of those
        monsters - NO WAY! I don't trust that the bank will receive
        whatever I put in, and since nobody saw me put it there, where
        does that leave me?? At least with a person, you get a receipt
        that in effect states "I (a rep of the bank) received whatever
        from somebody to be applied in a certain manner".
                
                /s/     Bob

    Banks typically have policies to help maintain confidence in ATM
    activities.  For example, they may require that the deposits at
    the ATM be opened in the presence of at least two staff members.
    That won't eliminate all problems, but it helps.
    
    Unless there's a time constraint (such as I need a deposit to cover
    a check), I have no problem with depositing checks by machine. 
    The worst that can happen is that the person who wrote the check
    to me will have to stop payment and write another check.  I suppose
    I might think twice if I thought it hard to replace the check, but
    that rarely happens.  Cash is another story.
    
       Gary

    Re: .6 (Re: my .4)
    
�        Why, in 1987, would an employee of a *computer company*
�    not use an ATM?
    
    	Perhaps because my dad is a private computer consultant who
    worked in banking for years and I get my distrust of them from him.
    I call Easy-Touch to get my balance, but never use it to transfer
    money.
    
    	It's not the computer I don't trust -- it's the little mechanical
    parts that are spitting out $20 bills or sucking in my "deposit"
    that I don't trust.
    
    	Happy to visit a real live teller....
    
    						--Doug

    RE: .7
    
    I believe that most ATM's (not sure about DCU) have one of those
    cameras that snap a picture every so often. So at the very least
    that would provide some "proof" that you put something into the
    machine.
    
    In any case, experience and "earned" level of trust (earned by the
    bank and the ATM) is all you have to go with. Regrettably, life has
    no guarantees.
    
    Carl

        I called John Tilley at DCU to ask some of the questions
        people have raised in this conference.
        
        On the location of ATMs - he said that two things determine
        where they go.  One thing, he said, was "budget", but I didn't
        ask him to elaborate on that.  The other thing is the number
        of members the ATM could service.  They are trying to place
        ATMs where there are somewhere around 900 Digital employees
        (though this number can vary a lot), in a single building
        or a few buildings close by.
        
        The "waiting list" has 17 sites on it; the DCU has 12 ATMs
        on order from NCR, which should be installed in the next
        6-9 months.  John wasn't sure where they'd all go, but
        he did say that some will be "far away" from Maynard.
        
        On different ATM networks - the DCU will be switching its
        affiliation from the Plus System to the Cirrus network
        sometime this fall.  Members will be getting new ATM cards
        in September and October, and the new cards should work
        in any Cirrus machine (like BayBanks in Massachusetts,
        for example).
        
        On 31 October, the Monec network is going to shut down.
        Apparently the Bank of Boston has decided to stop trying
        to maintain this network in competition with Cirrus and
        Plus System.  Obviously, after that date, DCU ATM cards
        won't work in "Monec" machines.  Just to emphasize this
        point - it wasn't DCU's decision to drop support of Monec.
        
        On continued access to the Plus System - the DCU is going
        to be issuing a "major" credit card, and it will work on
        Plus System ATMs rather than Cirrus ATMs.  Thus, if you
        get both this credit card and a new ATM card, you'll have
        access to both networks.
        
Jim Stratton
        

    Re: the indicated switch from Plus to Cirrus.
    
    Any indication of how Pocketbank and Cash Network fit in?  If we
    can get on Pocketbank, Cash Network, and Cirrus, that should cover
    the overwhelming majority of machines in the northern MA/southern
    NH area.
    
       Gary

< Note 34.11 by 26724::STRATTON "Nickel tours - 25 cents" >
    
>       On continued access to the Plus System - the DCU is going
>       to be issuing a "major" credit card, and it will work on
>       Plus System ATMs rather than Cirrus ATMs.  Thus, if you
>       get both this credit card and a new ATM card, you'll have
>       access to both networks.

    My experience has been that a credit card can be used in an ATM
    only to get a cash advance, not to withdraw money from a bank
    account.  The difference is that you must pay finance charge on
    a cash advance.
    
    Do you know if this is what's planned?  Or will the "credit card"
    allow access to one's DCU account directly?
    
    It's a clever workaround to the competition between Cirrus and Plus,
    but it could be expensive if all that's available to you is an ATM
    on the "wrong" network.  I'd certainly object to paying the DCU
    interest.
    
    Bob

        re .12 and 
>    Any indication of how Pocketbank and Cash Network fit in?  If we
>    can get on Pocketbank, Cash Network, and Cirrus, that should cover
>    the overwhelming majority of machines in the northern MA/southern
>    NH area.
 
        The DCU is already on Pocketbank and Cash Network.  This
        shouldn't change when the Plus System-to-Cirrus cutover
        happens.
        
        re .13 and using a credit card to get a cash advance as
        opposed to withdrawing money from an account - I don't
        know.  I gather from John that they haven't ironed out
        a lot of the details.
        
Jim Stratton
        

    My bank supplied MasterCard works just fine at their ATM's to do
    all the ATM activities without the need and expense of doing cash
    advances.
    
    One would assume that the mag strip either contains the ATM
    identification or there is some cross reference between the two
    numbers.  It's amazing what you can do with computers.  (`;
    
    Have a ball,
    
    Don

    
    Any idea when this change to the Cirrus system is going to happen?
    My local bank currently is on Cirrus and there is no charge for
    using the ATM.
    If DCU changes to Cirrus, I could drop my local bank and do all
    my banking through DCU.
    					...mike
    

>    My local bank currently is on Cirrus and there is no charge for
>    using the ATM.
>    If DCU changes to Cirrus, I could drop my local bank and do all
>    my banking through DCU.

	Remember that to use the ATM to access your DCU account, it will 
cost $1.00 per transaction. Also, you can only withdraw money using the ATM. 
Features that you probably use at your bank will be not be available using 
the ATM to access DCU. You will have to use the 800# and the touch-tone 
system.

 re. .17
    
    I thought that the $1.00 charge was from the PLUS system, if CIRRUS
    doesn't have this charge, then it might not cost anything.
    
    Also, why cant you use the ATM to make deposits, or check balances
    or anything else you can do with any other ATM, just because its
    a DCU account??
    
    					...mike
       

I'd like to ask that DCU up the amount to $150.00 per ATM usage :^).  I don't
think they are charging quite enough for their current services.

Anyone agree?

rep

        It is my understanding that the $1.00 charge is, in fact, the
        network charge, and that DCU is simply passing it along.
        
        While it's possible that a different network might not have
        any per use charge, it's not likely.
        
        Generally, the choice of which transactions you can perform
        is up to the bank or credit union, and varies depending on
        the network.  It's not uncommon for not every service to be
        available on every network; withdrawals are the most common,
        and to some extent the easiest, since they are often done on
        a "trust" basis.  Accepting deposits is much harder, since
        it involves a lot of paper in many cases (checks).  Transfers
        among accounts usually also require live access to the bank's
        data base.  So withdrawals are widely available, but other
        services usually are not.
        
        Tom

    	I know that CIRRUS also has a network charge.  One of the banks
    I use just switched from MONEC to CIRRUS.  If you use a machine
    other than the bank's, you get charged $0.75.  So switching networks
    is not likely to eliminate a charge.
    
    Amy

    I would HOPE that the change from MONEC to CIRRUS would present
    the opportunity to expand the transactions available.
    
    My former company's credit union provides its customers with XPress-24
    cards and we can do all the same functions as normal BayBank customers.
    There is no fee for deposits or balance inquiries (they're pleading
    with their customers to cut down on the latter, but haven't yet started
    charging for them) and a modest (.50, if I remember correctly) fee for
    withdrawls and transfers between accounts, when done through a BayBank
    XPress-24 ATM.  If the transaction is done through a non-BayBank CIRRUS
    ATM, a flat $1 applies.  It's a reasonable approach. 

    
    The bank I use uses CIRRUS. Recently we were informed that they
    too will be charging per transaction. We are still waiting to hear
    on this. I guess you really can't blame DCU. It looks like the networks
    have discovered that the class of people who will still continue
    to use them no matter what is large enough to be profitable. What
    with all the new services they can offer like getting a cash advance
    from a credit card, etc. It's getting to the point that I have so
    many credit cards, charge cards, etc. A few that offer these services
    with so many passwords to remember, what machines will accept them,
    etc. that if I ever ran into a situation where they could help,
    I wouldn't know what to do. I only carry one or two cards that I
    use most frequently.

I'm told there are plans for an ATM in HLO this fall

    ATM deposit capability can't be implemented across state lines: banks
    are still limited to being a bank (i.e making loans _and_ taking
    deposits) in one state (non-bank banks and regional agreements are
    breaking down this barrier). 
    
    The decision to pass along network transaction fees is completely
    at the discretion of the DCU. I belong to another credit union that
    offers CIRRUS access with no transaction charge for withdrawals.
    The decision to offer fee-based services, or have costs reflected
    in lower dividend rates is an arbitrary policy one.  The reality is that
    any DCU transaction has some cost (cost of offices, tellers, ATM
    acquisition, forms, etc.) and the DCU has decided to charge for
    some (i.e. network ATM), and not for others (DCU ATM, in-person).
    I, personally, dislike the ala carte approach. The DCU should be
    better than a bank, not an equivalent alternative.

        Mill (5-4, I think - by the cafeteria)
        Parker Street (PKO3 and PKO5 - the DCU building)
        Marlboro (MRO3)
        Spitbrook (ZKO1)
        Nashua - location DDD, on Route 101A
        Merrimack (MKO2)
        Colorado Springs (CXO3)
        Tempe
        

    The Mill also has an ATM on Main st. (Bldg 22.)

    I really like to see a list of all the DCU ATMs.  Doesn't such an
    official list exist somewhere?
    
    Marc Carignan

    There is a list in LiveWire, but it appears to be out of date.

    This is an official response by John Tilley of the DCU. The portion of
    that response, dated 5-January-1988, that applies to this topic note is
    included below. See note 2.22 for more information. 
    
    Whether you agree or disagree with the response from the DCU,
    *PLEASE* remember I'm just the MESSENGER.
    
    Carl Leeber
******************************************************************************
    CURRENT LISTING OF DCU EASY CASH24 ATMS:
    
    Maynard, MA		141 Parker Street (DCU HQ)
    
    			129 Parker Street (PKO3)
    
    			146 Main Street (across from House of Pizza)
    
    			149 Main Street (in Mill cafeteria)
    
    Marlboro, MA	3 Results Way (MRO3 2nd floor)
    
    Tewskbury, MA	1925 Andover Street (TWO lobby)
    
    Merrimack, NH	Continental Blvd (MKO2 north lobby)
    
    Colorado Springs	Rockrimmon Blvd (CXO3 lobby)
    
    Tempe, AZ		1901 West 14th Street (TFO lobby)
******************************************************************************

    Yes, in fact there are TWO DCU ATMs in Nashua, NH:
    
    	ZKO1-3, near main lobby
    	110 Spit Brook Road
    
    	DECDirect, furthest door in (24 hour access; no badges required;
    		it's set up like regular bank ATMs, with a separate
    		entrance to a glassed-in 'closet'.
    	Routes 101-A (Amherst St)., 1.5 miles west of Route 3, behind
    		D'Angelos/Steve's and the Indian Head Bank.
    
    Marc
    

re: .31

>>  There is a list in LiveWire, but it appears to be out of date.

This is an understatement.  .31 was written in 1987.  I wouldn't be surprised if
the list that's there now is the same list as then.  Isn't there anything that
can be done about this?  Who is responsible for keeping the DCU information in
LIVEWIRE up to date?

Elaine