Conference unifix::sailing

    And then of course there is the Achilles that has been an excellent
    inflatable.
    Hyperlon is a better, stronger hull material but exposed on the transom
    all year is going to be hard on any material. At the least spray
    Armor-all on the hull and at the max put a cover over it.
    Rigid bottom inflatables do not offer any savings in either storage
    space or weight. They are more stable than a rigid dink and you can put
    a larger outboard on them but you pay for this in $$$'s and lbs.
    Having had a flat bottomed and a inflatable keel model of the same
    dingy I would go with the keel. Better rough water sea keeping, tows
    better, no extra weight.
    Have no first hand information on the Metzlser.

    Carl,
    	
    	Not being a Sail type I went through a similar exercise in buying
    my dink.   Spec were:
    
    	Good Quality
    	Store on Swim Platform -- Lots of Sun
    	Hard Transom for OB 
    	No speed needed - Just Anchor to beach etc.
    	3 people  (Swim Plat/Transom limits size)
    	Stable to step into
    	Store/setup easy (in case weather says take it off the platform)
    
    After looking all over I bought a Bombard -- $650 - 
    after 5 seasons of sun, rocks, & sand it looks great!
    
    This unit is a bit nice in that it has "slats" for a floor - 
    when set up it is very stable to step into - the bottom is not jelly
    like -- yet pull the plugs & it simply rolls up.
    
    It has built in pumps - nice in case you need to stiffen it up or
    some kid on the beach unscrews the plugs.
    
    with my 3.5hp air cooled engine it moves right along with 3 people
    in it -- indeed I often take 4 of us into the beach.   It works
    well for exploring the gunk holes; but, is too wet/slow for a 5
    mile trek.
    	
    As for sun - I put on some Armor All start/mid/end season & it looks
    brand new after 5 full seasons of use (stored on the platform all
    the time right out in the sun)  It is an orange like color - yuk
    - but easy for others to see in the anchorages.
    
    BIG TIP --
    When you put it on the transom it blocks the name of the boat --
    We painted the name on (in the same script as the transom) using
    "Fender Cote" 4 seasons ago.  After the rocks of Maine & 4 years
    of sun it looks so good I wouldn't think of touching it.  The
    Fender Cote still allows me to roll it up for winter storage or
    those bad days.
    
    My feeling is - if I had to replace it in a season or so (& I won't)
    I still got my monies worth.
    
    If your interested - Hudson's Marine in Newburyport carries them
    & there are numerous sizes/styles in either the orange, gray, or
    black depending upon the type with soft, slatted or hard w/keel
    floors.
    
    
    Well good luck with the hunt.
    
    Oh - since I'm a member of the Cousteau Soc. & the Dink rolls up
    so easy -- I named it the  "Collapso"
    
                               Take care,
                                           Lou

    Now I have an AVON Redcrest with a detachable motor mount. This
    little jem is almost 18 years old and still going strong.
    
    I mount a 2.3 hp ob on it and I build my own rigid floor boards
    for use when we go on vacation or long weekends.
    
    I tow it behind the boat an a short line to keep the bow well up
    out of the water.
    
    When I go home, I just pick it up carry it top the pick-up and take
    it home and store it in the basement inflated.
    
    It carries three adults and a pordigous amount of gear at a reasonable
    speed to the mooring that is 3/4 mile from the dock.
    
    Gee, I think that it has twice as many years left ahead.
    
    Paul

    I have experince with both Achilles and Metzler. First the Achilles,
    Fold down to a nice package and comes with a carrying case. Oars
    lock in place so you can't loose them. Flat bottom, bad, get the
    inflatable keel. Floor boards are OK.
    
    Metzlser. Inflatable floor is firm, it also keeps your buns away
    from the cold water. Removeable transom is nice but not a big plus
    except it is thicker than that on the Achilles. One big plus is
    the sea cocks, don't have to worry about filling with water during
    a big rain. The bow curves up, keeps pretty dry.
    

    I have an Avon that is a relative youngster only 4 seasons, my
    neighbour at the marina has one he started cruising with 19 years
    ago, it is now in its fourth name ie T/T name and he swears by it.
    I think that as with many things in the marine world if you buy
    a quality product you can expect a long life and high second hand
    value should you need to dispose of your asset......       
                                                               
                                                               
    Merry Christmas to one and all.
    
    Pete

    Re .2
    
    I have not put any Armour All on my inflatable because I read in
    Practical Sailor that the silicone in it makes patching difficult,
    if not impossible (the glue won't hold).  Have you found otherwise?
    

    Wouldn't you be able to offset the effects of the Armor All by using
    some sort of solvent to wash the stuff away?  BTW, I was talking to a 
    person that was using a 15' Zodiac as a work boat and he had nothing
    but great things to say about it's quality.  His remedy for fixing
    holes was to use superglue and a small patch over the damage.  He is a
    diver that follows the big boats around from port to port and does
    underwater repairs and cleaning between races.  He packs his inflatable
    as luggage.  Been around the world several times with it this way and
    no complaints.  
    
    Happy holidays,
    
    Brian 

    I used a Metzler in the S. Pacific for a year and came home and bought
    another one to make sure I had a good one for my next trip.....but the
    Metzler is now made by Zodiac and not only have the redesigned the boat
    (the back has been moved forward making it difficult to turn) but also
    now use the Zodiac material - which is not PVC.  Any inflatable will be
    damaged from the sun.

I wouldn't leave an inflatable dinghy on a transom for at least two
reasons: damage from the sun and risk of theft. We have two foot pumps for
our Avon, so inflation time (two people) is under five minutes. Avon foot
pumps can be easily modified to pump air out of the dinghy. Deflation time
is also under five minutes. (These times are for an Avon Redcrest). When
Practical Sailor surveyed its readers about inflatable dinghies, the result
was that Avons were the most expensive, longest lasting, and require the
fewest repairs. Avons have been around a long time. If they weren't the
best (or at least very good), they wouldn't sell at the prices they do.
This may be one of those instances when lesser price equals lesser quality.
Of course, lesser quality may still be good enough. 

The spec's noted in .2 closely match mine.

>    
>        Good Quality
>        Store on Swim Platform -- Lots of Sun
>        Hard Transom for OB 
>        No speed needed - Just Anchor to beach etc.
>        3 people  (Swim Plat/Transom limits size)
>        Stable to step into
>        Store/setup easy (in case weather says take it off the platform)
>    

I have done some more research based on inputs and find that the 
absence/presence of Hypalon as a component of the fabric is a key 
determinator of the price.  

For example (all prices for approx 10'):

		Core Mat'l	 Outer Skin	Inner Skin	Price
		----------	 ----------	----------	-----

AVON		840 den nylon	 hypalon	hypalon		1450

ACHILLES	840 den nylon(4) hypalon(2)	neoprene 	1350

ZODIAC		1100 den polyester calendered with Stongan (?)   850

METZELER	same as ZODIAC					 900

BOAT US		1000 den poly    hypalon/neprene neoprene 9'2"	 689
							11'2"    995

WEST MARINE	961 den nylon    hypalon	neoprene	 849


My conclusions:

	Hypalon seems to be the designer's choice of preference.  Zodiac
	is using a polyester.  Does this make a key difference?  Opinions
	offered is that it is not as abrasion resistant as hypalon, nor
	as resistant to embrittlement from UV.

	Neoprene is used internally because of air holding capability.
	Not sure if hypalon replacement internally with AVON provides
	any advantage.

	AVON certainly has the reputation as does the Achilles.  Zodiac
	seems to be deficient in UV protection.  A best buy might be the
	WEST MARINE product.

Is an AVON worth paying a premium of 60%?

I do wish the METZELER was made out of a better fabric.  The complete 
collapsability feature with the inflatable floor certainly is attractive.
On the other hand, if it is always stowed maybe the need for hypalon as a 
fabric is less.

Other thoughts?  

Happy Holidays!

Carl

    I'm looking for advise on which large inflatable to buy.  It will be
    primarily used as a comedy boat to run windsurfing races in open ocean
    conditions less than a mile from shore.  It will be used for setting
    marks, running starts and perhaps an occasional rescue.  It will be out
    in winds typcially 12-18 knots in the summer and rarely anything over
    25 knots.  It should be able to carry 2 people with buoys and anchors
    with room for two more if rescues are required.
    
    I've been looking at the 15' Avon Typhoon with inflatable keel and the
    Avon R.I.B.s and  17' Sportboats with hard bottom deep V bows.  Are the
    inflatables really as seaworthy as the nice Avon catalog claims or
    should I be looking at a 15' Whaler or equivalent for this application.
    
    All input appreciated. - Don

    I cant speak about inflatables for this application; although I recall
    seeing people from the Coast Guard Station at Chatham using them.
    (perhaps a call would get you the mfg's name)
    
    I do have a 15' whaler and I would *not* buy a whaler for this purpose
    - at least not in the smaller sizes (<17').
    
    Look for something with a different hull design.
    
    						Regards,
    
    
    							Harlan