Conference unifix::sailing

    And Beau,
    ask em about getting rust stains off the sails too.
    Don

    Just did mine yesterday.  No special treatment - just unrolled them
    on the lawn, hosed them down, and scrubbed the hardware lightly
    to remove encrusted salt and corrosion.  I scrubbed the stains on
    the cloth itself with a bit of Soft Scrub.  If a light brushing
    didn't take the stain off, I left it.  Then I let them air dry where
    they lay, moving them to a new spot of lawn when I turned them over.
    The jibs where done by the afternoon.  The mains where still wet
    at dark so I moved the cars out of the garage, covered the floor
    with a few tarps and left the sails on top doubled over.  Flipped
    them over this morning to let the other side dry.
    
    Sail lofts will clean sails but most of them just send them out
    to a commercial laundry.  This may be OK for soft sails but heavily
    resinated or plastic sails don't like that.  There are a few lofts
    that have facilties for cleaning these but they charge lots for the
    special service.  In my opinion, the best DIY cleaning facility
    is a deck - the one on your house, not the one on the boat.
    Clean the deck off, lay down as much of the sail as fits, wash and
    rinse, then move a fresh section of sail into place, repeat until
    done.  Then support the sail on some outdoor furniture to let it
    drip dry.  That's how I did the chutes.  The rinse water drains
    through so I don't have to stand in a puddle.
                                            
    - gene

    
    Just did mine Saturday, also.  We use a slight variation on 1012.2's
    technique.  We lay the plastic boat cover (20 ft x 20 ft) on the
    driveway.  We use a mild solution of detergent plus a little bleach
    to handle the mildew, if any.  A mild solution of oxalic acid removes
    the rust stains, before flushing the entire sail.  We then hang
    the sail between trees (and the bow of the boat, which is about
    14 feet off the ground, in our case).  These dacron sails look like
    new and are going into their tenth season next year. We use a scrub
    brush to apply the mild cleaning solution.  Hand cleaning with extra
    spot cleaning only where necessary is a lot easier on the sails
    than machine washing, and allows you to go over the entire sail
    just before you put them away for the Winter.  The slight bleach
    residue keeps them from any possible mildew until Spring.
    

    Several years ago, I had a problem with my mainsail.  I left the
    mainsail in the quarter berth, and the cushion got wet, the dye
    leaked through and I now had a pink mainsail.  I brought the sail
    to several sail makers and sail cleaners, and they all told me 
    the same thing, that the sail was ruined.  A couple of days later,
    I was taking to the guy who does my dry cleaning, and he asked to
    see the sail.  He told me to use plenty of cold water and lestoil.
    Yes lestoil, I had nothing to loose, so I took his advice, it 
    was great, the sail looked brand new, and it even took out all the
    other stains I had in the sail.  I still use lestoil, but I now
    take my mainsail home for the winter.
    
                               Bob

    So I use lestoil with a little bleach to keep mildew
    down, and oxalic acid for the rust stains. Is this
    something that can be picked up at a drug store or 
    grocery store, or dry cleaning agency?
    
    Beau
    

    re .5, Oxalic acid is available at most large hardware stores. 
    When I've gotten it it comes in glass jars, about a pound or so.
    Read the cautions on the label.
    

    re .5, I would only use Lestoil (or Oxalic) when needed. Lestoil
    is petroleum based. Mild detergent or mild soap should do for the
    majority of the sail.   
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
            

    Re: Comments on washing your sails on the deck at your house.
    
        I agree, EXCEPT if you have a new pressure treated deck. A couple
        of years ago I had to move to the lawn from the deck after I
        began having problems with staining on the sails from the rot inhibitor
        in the wood. 
    
        Now that the wood has aged, I don't expect that I will have
        any further problems.
    
        I am going to try some of the suggestions mentioned here this
        weekend (even though its supposed to be miserable weather) to
        remove the stains.

        This may save me the trip I was planning to a sail loft to have
        the sails cleaned !
    
        JC
    

There's a powdered cleanser called ZUD that contains oxalic acid. It's
available in many grocery stores. I haven't tried it on sails, but it's
excellent for removing rust stains from many other surfaces.

--RS

      
    
       I like to wash mine in the back yard. I scrub one side and then
    the other. Once this task is completed, I run it up a pully I attached
    to the house peak a couple years ago (actually, it is a heavy duty
    open eye hook to which I attach a pully with a line already attached.
    
       I just run it up. Hose both sides with a hose until clean, and
    then "set" the the corners to a couple of nearby trees until it
    dries.
    
       A word of caution though. Last year I sailed pretty late into
    the season (hope to do it ago this year!), so I didn't clean them
    until early December. The day was very cold and windy. when I
    hosed them off. the water froze to the dacron before coming down
    like little snow flakes. Although the sail was just fine, the cold
    and water mananged to dislodge one of the vinal embels.
    
       john
    

    At the suggestion of another sailor, I tried washing them in
    the snow.  I picked a day last winter when there was about
    6-8" of packed snow and the temperature had just gone up into
    the high 30's.  I used some cleaners, but found the grime came off
    fastest when scrubbing with my deck brush and snow.
    
    Its knida neat. The snow on the ground keeps the sail off the dirt,
    the snow acts somewhat like an absorbing abrasive, or a "dry clean".
    Heck, I didnt really need the hose.
    
    Of course the above wont do much for rust or mildew removal.
    
    Walt

    A couple of weeks ago, I tool all 4 sails of my 1985 Com-Pac 19 to a
    sail loft near the N.H. Seacoast. I called first and he told me $1.95
    per lb to wash and $48/hr to inspect. I asked what he did to inspect
    and he said that he would look for broken threads and damage to batten
    pockets. Should take about an hour's of labor for that. I allowed
    as to how I could do that, but I did want them washed. The invoice
    came middle of last week and it contained (in addition to the 
    20# x 1.95 = $39, a handling fee of $16. My wife picked them up on
    Friday, and asked for an explanation of the "handling charge"
    and got some mumbo-jumbo about folding and bagging etc. She explained
    to him (probably not too cordially) that when I called to inquire
    about the price of washing, that he should have mentioned this 
    handling charge that amounted to $40 % of the bill.
    For those of you who use sail lofts, is this a normal or expected
    charge? 
    
    4 years (or so) ago, when I had a second set of reef points
    added to my mail, at Amber Sails (in Portsmouth) she did a very decent
    job at what I considered a very reasonable price, but I could find no
    sign that Amber Sails still exists. 
    
    Bill
    
    

I've never paid a "handling charge" at a sail loft.

--RS

    I just picked up my sails this weekend. I had left them at Marine
    Exchange to be washed, inspected and re-resined. The price per sq foot
    was not too bad. Once the company got them (they are out of Penn.), I
    got a call. I had a small seam resewen, but they added $50 for shipping
    and handling and another $35 for stitching all the emblems on because the
    process would take them off. All in all, it came to $305 for a 150 and
    a main on a 26 footer. The sails look and feel like new. I think the
    flyers should say something about the additional charges, but this is
    1/6th the price of a new set of sails.
    
    I can see the s&h since they sent them to Penn.   M.E. probably got part
    of the charges to cover their handling. 

re .14:

Some time ago Practical Sailor reported on the re-resining of sails by 
at least two different companies. They weren't impressed with the 
results. I hope it works for you.

Alan

    
    
    	I recall the Practical Sailor article describing a DIY process- was
    there another article on a pro- applied resin?
    
    	I'd love to extend the life of my delivery sails- realizing of
    course the best I could hope for is a Stiff blown-out bedsheet...
    
    	Elmer's resin, yeaaah that's it!
    
    	Scott

    After being out yesterday on a cloudless hot beautiful 4th of July and
    seeing a  35 footer with a huge US flag streaming off the topping
    lift, I got to thinking about a patriotic motif for next year.
    
    The reason is I have the original main and 150 genny. 
    They are uselessly blown out for racing, and the material worn enough 
    that a recut will not help according to my sail maker. 
    I was about the toss them out of this week when the idea above hit. 
    
    So my question is, how do those rac'n folks dye the logos into the
    sails used for big time events. Is this just plain old dye? How does
    one get it to stay put when doing graphics?   Any info or books on
    how to accomplish this?
    
    I am looking to dye the genny blue and add white stick on stars unless
    I can really control the dye placement. I indend to make the main red and 
    white stripes.
    
       Thanks
    
        john
    

    If you want a crisp design that lasts, get someone to silk screen a
    design onto it.
    
    Another alternative is paint. When the logo on my beat up Sunfish sail
    got all cracked and homely, I repainted it (by hand) with black 
    acrylic paint and a brush.
    
    You should be able to stencil designs onto the sail cloth if you make
    your own stencils.
    
    Bill
    

    Were you in Boston yesterday?  Was the boat a dark blue hull?  It coudl
    have been the Frers 33 I race on, Eclipse.  We had one flying Saturday
    after the Constitution Cup.  Looked kind of neat until it got wrapped
    in the backstay and later around the mast spreaders and just about
    everything else :-).  

    re .19  No, this was in Salem Sound and the boat was white. Heck, in
    the humid haze, it looked like the model for Rhode Island's
    environmental auto registration plates [IMHO the best looking plates
    in the US].
    
    re .18   How well did the paint hold up. I know we are talking a life
    of 4-8 days maximum, but I don't need to luff once and have the paint
    raining done on me and the crew. Someone at work suggested using an
    airbrush to put the colors on. If the acrylic works in an airbrush,
    it sounds like I may have my solution.
    
       thanks
    
        john  

    The paint is still on the sunfish sail, 7 years(?) later. I just
    brushed it on and it hasn't peeled or cracked yet. The Sunfish sail
    that it is on must be 20-25 years old. It was old and cracked when
    I bought the Sunfish in 1983. We believe it is an early 1970's boat - 
    before the modern Hull Id Numbers were introduced. I think the serial
    number is 86xxx
    
    I expect the sail to blow out anytime. Lots of sailtape holding it
    together
    

    In .-1 I meant that the Sunfish logo was cracked, not the sail.
    It's old tired nylon but still intact.
    
    Bill
    

    I once observed a fellow with a Cal 30 who had a Chute witch was a
    large flag. Stars I blue at the top, and red and white stripes starting
    about 3/4 of the way down.  The guy must have felt very good when he
    passed as the crowd cheered and appluaded his boat.
    
    Joe

    Having just received a mail from a colleague in Mass, who got 27inches
    of snow on April 1st & has no electricity, I thought I'd cheer you New
    Englanders up by mentioning that I had my first sail wearing a tee
    shirt on Easter Monday 30th March on Europe's largest lake, surrounded
    by mountains, with the Alps looking wonderful with fresh white snow.
    
    I refitted my water (which is made of light blue translucent plastic
    material) fitted a new carbon water filter, & filled up my water tank.
    
    Then set sail in gentle breezes, with my wife on board correcting exam
    papers. 
    
    My sails have a little grime & green mould & could do with a good wash.
    
    Traditionally, I buy four 1lb packs of a sail cleaning chemical, which
    I pour in the bath & dilute in tepid water & soak each sail for 24hrs
    and all my ropes as well. The water turns a yukky green colour and the
    sails which are now 11 years old, come out dazzlingly clean. All the
    squashed spiders & insects stains & green mould have disapeared. 
    And the ropes wonderfully soft to handle.
    
    I then rinse everything in clean water, several times & put them up to
    dry hanging from hooks in the ceiling of my garage.
    
     
    The only pain in the neck is that I'm unable to buy the stuff, as my
    chandler does not carry it any more.
    
    	So if any of you could suggest where I could get some sail cleaning 
    products, by mail order, I'd be truly grateful.
    
    
    		Wishing you all a great sailing year,
    							Nick
    
    PS: If you can fax me a page of a catalogue & phone/fax number for
    ordering, that would be great (my dtn fax: 821.4807)