Conference unifix::sailing

    I bought a 17' O'Day Daysailer III this spring and have trailered
    it exclusivly (with the exception of two weeks spent on Casco Bay
    this summer).
    
    You're absolutly right about the "sales droids".  The
    word from the guy I bought the boat from was "you can set it up
    in 5 minutes once you get the hang of it".  Well...  I discovered
    that that's just a bit optimistic, considering that one want's to
    be careful not to cross lines, shrouds, etc when setting up.  I
    did find that the Daysailer III is an excellent boat for this sort
    of activity.  It takes me about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to set up
    or take down (I take my time at it) but I can easily do it single
    handed.  If you're talking about a larger boat, however, I could
    see where balancing the mast on the tabernacle and then holding
    on by your teeth while you secure the head stay could get a bit
    tricky :-)
    
    I certainly enjoy the freedom of being able to take the boat where ever
    I want.  The problem that I've run into is that some boat launches are
    clearly meant for small powerboat fishermen (lots of low trees to catch
    shrouds and stays in).  Many of them also don't understand that
    stringing a powerline directly over a boat launch can be hazardous to
    the health when trying to launch a boat with an aluminum mast. Several
    times, I've ended up setting up in the water.  Stepping a mast is
    lots of fun when you're floating in the water (talk about developing
    good balance).
    
    All in all I'd say my experiences have been good.  You learn which
    lakes are good and which ones aren't.  The O'Day has such a shallow
    draft with the centerboard up that I havn't really run into a problem
    with shallow water at launches.
    
    I do have to say, however, that the two weeks that I had her in
    the water in Maine were certainly nice.  Being able to just go down
    to the dock, run a quick check on things, and cast off was a real
    luxury.  Trailering the boat means that it's a lot tougher to "just
    go for a quick sail in the evening".  I may look into alternatives
    another year.
    
    Good Luck.
    
          

     I'm pretty sure the maximum width for towing is 8' not 9'6"

    I believe that there is a chart in the most recent issue of Trailer
    Boats which lists the various states rules. Seems to me that N.H.
    has a 8'6" width limit. You can get permits to tow wider but uaually
    only for weekdays. I guess they don't want the wide stuff out there
    at night (obviously) and weekends (are weekend drivers less able
    to cope with oncoming wide loads than commuters?) 
    
    I trailered my Com-Pac 16 for a couple of years and have my Com-Pac
    19 on a mooring. While it might take me 30 or more minutes to be
    ready to sail off a trialer, it takes me 10 or 15 to be ready off
    a mooring. The extra time from a trailer is mostly 2 things:
    1. Launching/parking
    2. Stepping the mast.
    The other stuff you have to do anyway.
    
    Happy Sailing.
    
    Bill French
    

If you really want larger-if-not-too-inconvenient, and you are willing to 
look carefully at a clever but unconventional solution, plan a trip down 
to Peter Duff's shop in Marion or Mattapoisett, and check out the 28' 
Shearwater.  There's also a 21' (?) Dovekie.  Both are flat-bottomed, and 
simply cavernous inside.  I've sailed and cruised in the latter, and what 
little she gives up in windward ability and heavy-weather comfort (but not 
in safety) she returns in light air performance, thin water range, and
being able to overnight on the flats.  Both are very sturdy, but not
yachty. Both distinctly lack any fiberglass gew-gaws, and aim for
functional simplicity.  Both have masts on tabernacles simple enough to
operate that you wouldn't hesitate to lower them to go under a bridge for
even just a 15-minutes poke. 

Besides, if you change your mind and want a mooring sometime in the 
future, you can ask for one you can walk to at low tide.

John.

    Hi ,
    
    Far over the Atlantic. I am sailing in the Netherlands and bought
    a DELYA22 . The manufacturer is called DEHLER and also builds 
    25 feet sailboats which you can trailer. 
    
    Well Germans are famous for their cars I've heard ... .
    
    
    
    					Horst 

    I HAVE A HUNTER 23 THAT I HAVE TRAILERED FOR 2 SEASONS. IT TAKES
    2 PEOPLE( MY 14 YEAR OLD SON AND I) TO RAISE THE MAST 33' DWL WITH
    THE WINCH ON THE MAST. TAKES ABOUT 10 MIN. ANOTHER 30 TO 45 MIN
    TO ADJUST THE STAYS AND SHROUDS TO THE "RIGHT" TENSION AND TO RIG
    THE CABLE LAUNCH TO THE TRAILER...READY TO SAIL ABOUT 1 HOUR FROM
    ARRIVAL.  MY BOAT HAS A 2'3" DRAFT WITH WINGED KEEL AND WEIGHS ABOUT
    2500 LBS. TRAILERING IS GOOD AT SPEEDS AROUND 55MPH.  IT HAS A LOT
    OF SAIL AREA ~ 240 SQ FT AND PERFORMS EXCEPTIONALLY WELL IN LIGHT
    AIR.  REQUIRES 1ST REEF SOMEWHERE AROUND 20 KNOTS AND SECOND REEF
    AND STORM SAIL 25 TO 30 KNOTS.  HAVE SAILED WHEN CAUGHT IN 45+ KNOTS
    GUSTS IN THUNDERSTORMS BUT WOULD DEFINITELY PREFER NOT TO...
    BOAT DOES SURF WITH DOUBLE REEF!  IT HAS BERTHS FOR 5...THREE IS
    MUCH BETTER BUT WE NORMALLY HAVE WIFE AND I AND 14 YEAR OLD BOY
    AND 11 YEAR OLD GIRL...WE SURVIVE AND STILL HAVE FUN.  I USUALLY
    SAIL AT HERON LAKE IN NEW MEXICO (7300 FT ELEV) AND HAVE SAILED
    AT LAKE POWELL IN ARIZONIA AS WELL AS ELEPHANT BUTTE.

    re .5 and .6	Well, there's the short and the tall of it...
    One that sails below sea level and the other that sails above mountain
    level :-) :-).   Seriously, thanks for the I/P.
    

     Well, I sail a 470, a 15.5 foot racing dinghy. This is a very light boat
and I trail on the highway at 65, it makes it' self know at 70. The boat and
trailer combination weigh less than 500#, including sails. The boat is a 
planing hull and very flat. I've owned the boat for a year, at first it took
me almost an hour to step the mast, rig it and get under sail, it now takes
me no more than 35 minutes. The boat is fun and I have had a great time with
it, but, it's not the maximum size trailerable you were talking about it fits
in closer to the minimum end of the spectrum. 
     I would like a larger boat, but, getting a mooring does not look 
attractive, I have a car capable of pulling a medium load with a good hitch, 
but not a tow vehicle and I don't want to sacrifice the speed of a racer, 
or at least the excitement. I was out in Oregon visiting my sister (Lake 
sailing is very big out there) and as I drove toward a very large lake, 
Fern Ridge, I passed a sailboat dealer. One boat caught my eye and I would 
like to find out more about it, I was kept very busy and did not have time 
to stop in. The boat was a flat bottom with a long center board, possibly 
close to 4', looked like it might draw as little as 8" with the center board 
fully raised, approximately 20' LOA and the weight did not look heavy. This 
looked to me like the ideal, in my mind, boat to trail. This boat looked 
very fun, very attractive and very fast. It also looked great to trail, 
sail land locked lakes and maybe some salt water too.
     Does any one have any idea of what I might be talking about. In .4 
the author spoke of a Dovkie 21', what does this boat look like? Could it 
be the boat I saw? Where are some good places to shop. 
     I guess what I'm getting at is that I like having a trailerable, I 
promote the activity, but would, personally, rather pull a lighter boat,
but want to sail something larger than I have now. 
     I hope this has answered some questions and will also get some answers.

     					Thanks 
     					Geoff

    i have been trailering a 22 ft windrose for the last couple of years.
    I've trailered long distance as well as short distance.  the boat
    seems to trailer well if the boat is balanced properly on the trailer.
    the tongue weight is important to prevent swaying,  i've found that
    by rearranging the load so that heavy items are in the bow of the
    boat will prevent swaying.
    
    Also  if you dont want to continuously keep replacing small parts,
     such as turnbuckles etc, it's a good idea to tape all possible
    parts that may come loose.  road vibrations have an incredible effect
    on a trailered boat.

    re .9	You bring up a good point about load distribution, tongue
    weight is important.  I have also found that it is a big mistake
    to load all the boating and vacation gear in the boat, however well
    distributed and to leave the tow vehicle too light, especially in
    the back.  I did this with my power boat *ONCE* and regretted it.
    I should have stopped to move stuff around, but it took a while
    for me to realize what the problem was and I rationalized 
    "more than half way there now, I'll just take it easy".  Weird handling
    problems, sensitivity to side winds, etc.
    
    	Reg
    

    
    
    I have a question regarding the gross weight of the trailer.
    
    Does anyone know what the ratio of vehicle weight to gross trailer
    weight should be?
    
    I trailer a 14' daysailer with my 4 cyl station wagon and have no
    problems. The gross weight of the trailer, boat and gear is less
    than 1000#.
    
    I know that towing packages are available with new cars/trucks for
    this purpose but does this mean that the towing vehicle will have
    the necessary weight to handle a certain load?
    
    Maybe I should visit a car dealer, a fate worse than death.....
    
    

    re .11	"Most"  new cars can handle up to 2,000 lbs. on a bumper
    hitch without any problems, micro cars probably can't.  "Most"
    new cars have some kind of trailering spec., particularly bigger
    cars, wagons, utility vehicles and trucks.  Ask to see the
    manufacturer's recommended trailering limitations if you're looking
    at new cars with towing in mind and try to buy some reserve capacity,
    though not too much or you'll tempt yourself into the next boat
    size :-)
    
    	Reg
    

RE: .11

You can definitely tow more weight (legally) than the vehicle's weight.  
(I helped pull an 18000 lb two-boat trailer 1800 miles behind a 7000 lb
big Dodge van.)  The critical factors with the trailer are hitch type and 
size, trailer brakes (electric, surge, etc) and with the towing vehicle 
are frame strength -- which some manufacturers reinforce for special 
towing -- and engine power and cooling.

Mostly, towing something really big just isn't fun, as well as being slow.

J.

    Re. .12
    
    I not sure that many people are aware of the limitations of BUMPER
    HITCHS! Also, it is my understanding the that in Mass. and perhaps
    of New England states that bumper hitchs are not legal for most
    towing. 
    
    One of the problems relates to the weakness of modern bumber and
     car frame designs. The bumbers are being designed to minimize damage
    ( read that to be flexible ) and the points of attachment are usually
    only slightly reinforced sheet metal, due to unibody construction.
    
    Bottom line is that you will need a "frame" hitch which can be attached
    to strong and stable protions of the vehicle.
    
    Can anyone confirm my understanding of the illegal bumber hitch
    question?
    
    Jerry
     

    re .14	Well, you're certainly right on the design trend, though
    even the 5 MPH thing got dropped to 2 1/2 some time ago.  Most small
    lightweight modern cars have only a trim strip where "BUMPERS" used
    to be.  I don't know about the legal issue.  I had used the term
    "BUMPER HITCH" very losely to refer to the type that is usually
    attached to the bumper and has a small bar running forward to something
    (only slightly) more substantial, often *NOT* the frame.
    BTW, GMC put out some reasonable flyers about trailering, they still
    seem to regard it as a valid recreational pastime.
    
    	Reg
    

Just lauched WINDSONG (ODay 222) yesterday (yes, in the rain).

Lookin for recomendations for a fabrication shop to make a "Tongue
Extender".  Our 'Load Rite' non_tilting roller trailer carries the boat
well, but does not want to part with it even with the rear wheels of the
tow vehicle and the exhaust pipe under water.

Even though we made it, it took my tractor trailer driving son at the
wheel and my youngest (six foot, two inch) with a mighty heave while
standing on the trailer tongue to make it. I had hoped to be able to
launch up in Maine while on vacation with only the wife for crew.

Other posibilities are:
        Calling Load Rite to see if they make such a thing.
        Looking for a steeper ramp.
        Having boat dropped in by a yard when in Maine (last choice).

 Thanks, Fred
    

    Fred,
    	Depending on what part of Maine you are considering, a steep ramp
    at high tide might not be too hard to come by. Let us know and maybe
    we can help.
    Paul (Augusta DECie)

    Thanks Paul,
    We will be in the Bar Harbor area 7-Jul to 20-Jul staying at Mt Desert
    Campground at the head of Somes Sound. I know of a good ramp at
    Northeast Harbor as well at the one at the campground that we used
    last year with our Siren 17, but, I do not think either of them are
    quite steep enough.
    Fred 
     

    Fred,
    	Maybe I'm too optimistic. I know of a few launches that may fill
    the bill but unfortunately they are not near Bar Harbor. Maybe someone
    else knows that area better. 
    	I did stay at Mt Desert Campground a few years ago and vaguely
    recall the launch you refer to. That was fairly flat if I remember 
    correctly.
    	Sorry I can't be more help. Good luck with the extender.
    Paul
    
    P.S. Had you thought of a winch between the tow vehicle and the trailer?
    Dolphin Marina (one of the steep ramps I was thinking of) uses a winch 
    to back large boats into the water till the trailer is totally
    submerged in some cases. Maybe a scaled down version would work...or 
    maybe I'm getting further from reality. :^) 
    	Anyway good luck.    

re                    <<< Note 639.19 by DNEAST::OKERHOLM_PAU >>>
>                                  -< Winch? >-
    
>    P.S. Had you thought of a winch between the tow vehicle and the trailer?

	I have been thinking about using a winch and a turning block
to get my (power) boat off the bunk/drive_on trailer.  With the right
number of hooks and shackles it could be made reversible, giving 2:1 
velocity ratio for loading - which is when its needed, or a next size 
smaller winch could be used (lower $$$s, but since sailors are never
short of cash, that maybe a non issue (-: ) 

FBD follows:
(functional block diagrammme)
the  'C'  represents rope/cable turnaround



	UNLOADING:

	Turning block     -----------------------------------Winch
	to 	--------C
	trailer axle	  -----------------------------------Bow eye
	(or major
	frame member)


	LOADING:

	Turning block     -----------------------------------Winch
	to	--------C
	Bow eye		  --------------------------------Trailer tongue
							  or winch mount

	The only hassle seems to be the need for crawling under the 
rig to change from the loading to the unloading configuration, I'd 
guess the change from unloading to loading would be easy enough, since 
the boat wouldn't be there.

	Reg

	If you add a snatch block at the trailer tongue the need to crawl
	under the trailer to change the rig could be eliminated.  See the
	modified FBD below.  Only the loading part of the FBD has been changed.



	UNLOADING:

	Turning block     -----------------------------------Winch
	to 	--------C
	trailer axle	  -----------------------------------Bow eye
	(or major
	frame member)


	LOADING:

	Turning block     -----------------------------------Winch
	to	--------C
	trailer axle	  -----------------------------      Trailer tongue
							S---  or winch mount
                                          Bow eye -----

	Where  S  is the snatch block.

	There is no mechanical advantage this way but the change from
	loading to un loading is fast and easy.

	Al

    Just in case anyone is still concerned about trailering light boats,
    the following might be of interest.
    I have a Sunfish and a 12 x 5.5 flat bed utility trailer.  I contacted
    the Sunfish Laser folks, and they were very helpful in sending a
    drawing of the dimensions for small craft trailers.  I acquired 2
    rubber rollers, and using various galvanized angle irons and such, am
    in the process of fabricating a suitable boat carrying system.  I plan
    to mount the boat support hardware to a sheet of heavy ply-wood which
    will then be "easily" removable/replacable when I use the trailer for
    boating vs utility hauls.  Proper tie-downs should make sure everything
    stays place in transit.
    
     
    I've not had the boat out yet, bein's as how I've had no safe way to get it
    to any nearby lakes.  As this is my first entry in the Sailing notes,
    I'll proceed to make introductions in the appropiate place...
    
                        
    John

    Two weeks ago, I trailered my Com-Pac 19-II from Epsom N.H. to S.
    Thomaston Maine, as I have doen the past 2 years. Before leaving my
    yard, I dutifully read the red stickers on each fender that said
    before each use, inflate tires to proper pressure (90 psi) and tighten
    all lug nuts. I dutifully found the high pressure tire gague, took
    my wife's compressor to the driveway and topped the pressure and headed
    out. (can you tell where this story is headed?)
    
    We planned to take I95 to near Augusta and Rt 17 down to Rockland.
    When I gasses up in Brunswick, they man behind the counter said that
    Bath should be cleared out from the 3:30 let out at BIW by the time
    I got there (it wasn't) so I decided on the shorter trip up Rte 1.
    
    My wife was following me in my car with instructions to turn on her
    headlights if anything looked wrong.
    
    Two miles befpore the campground, on Rt 73 in S. Thomaston Maine,
    the left wheel came off the trailer at about 35 mph. I heard and felt
    a bang and saw the wheel heading off into the boonies in the mirror.
    
    I was able to pull off onto the grass beside the road and assess the
    damage. 2 miles form our destination and I have a trailer with one 
    wheel. My wife was about biserk as she had been trying to get my
    attention with horn and headlights, as the tire had smoked against the
    fiberglass fender for the preceeding  mile.
    
    Thank God no one was hurt (including the boat) and that no liability
    issues had been created.  I was able to jack up the boat, replace the
    tire (with enlarged bolt holes), borrow 2 of the 5 lug nuts from the
    other side and limp to the campground.
    
    Although they were a hard to find size 8.50-?? x 20 with load rating E,
    the folks at On the Road, a custom trailer manufacturing operation
    in Warren Maine had me a new rim, and a Spare tire and rim by the next
    day. Oh yes, 5 new lug nuts too. 
    
    Anybody need a single Bearing Buddy, size 1.980? (I had to buy 2)
    or have a single Bearing Buddy Bra that they don't need in the same
    size?
    
    
    I had painted the rims a couple years ago and apparently not retorqued
    the nuts since. They didn't seem lose when I replaced the bearings this
    spring.
    
    You can bet that on the return trip on Sunday, we stopped a couple of
    times at 10 mile intervals and then avery hour and I retightened all
    the nuts.