Conference unifix::sailing

GOOD NOTE!!! Thanks.

We got a new boat (new for me that is) this spring... with a diesel!
Everything that I know about diesels I got from your note. So tell me
more... I'm running on last years fuel, the fuel filter looks kinda
light duty, and I haven't done a thing to it this year. Should I panic?
I sure feel like it after reading your note. The boat is only 2 years
old and I think the previous owner was good to it??? Also, could you
recommend a good book on diesels? 

Thanks,

Gary...

ditto.    Same situation as Gary.  I've bled the system and have the service
manual, but I'd be interested in knowing what you should *really*
do for maintenance, lubrication, filters..etc    I'd be in way over my head
in a situation like that.

Interesting difference in prices for the parts by the way.

Rick

** Like the car dealers that tell you that "you only
   have to change the oil every 7500 miles.." :-)

A few more tidbits of diesel engine lore:

Always, I am told, run the engine long enough to get it up to normal 
operating temperature. This is likely to be at least 15 minutes under 
load. If the engine has been running under load for some time, let it 
idle for 5 minutes or so before stopping it. The heat from running under 
load takes a while to dissipate.

Change the engine oil in the fall just before the boat is hauled (run
the engine long enough to reach operating temperature before draining
the oil). Change the engine oil in the spring at launch time. Change the
engine oil every 100 hours of operation. Replace the oil filter every
time you change oil. My auto parts store gives extra discounts when
buying three or more filters at a time. 

It is probably worth the $20 or so it costs to have the oil analyzed 
in the fall. Note that only one analysis is not particularly useful. The 
analyses are to look for trends. So far the rather high iron content in 
my oil is directly proportional to the number of hours between oil 
changes. Should this change, I would suspect a problem. The additives in 
engine oil vary from brand to brand, so it is best to use just one brand 
to avoid affecting the analysis.

Most small marine diesels have a fuel filter on the engine. This filter 
removes solid contaminants only. Water in the fuel is the big problem. 
Injectors and especially injector pumps are lubricated by the fuel. A 
brief lack of lubrication (pumping water) will likely acquaint you with 
a pump repairman (603-669-3334 is the number of Diesel-X). I would 
recommend at a very minimum a Racor filter/water separator (or 
equivalent) in addition to the engine filter. Better still would be two 
filter/water separators in series. We have a Racor followed by the two 
can Fram. I would prefer two Racors to minimize the variety of filters 
elements. Racor uses a plastic bowl so that you can see any water 
collecting. Alcohol dissolves the plastic, so make sure the biocide 
contains no alcohol (Biophor does not, some others so). All of the 
filter elements should be replaced once a year, including the filter on 
the engine. The most important axiom with fuel is keep it clean. Some 
fuel systems are self-bleeding. Wish mine was.

Pay attention to fuel lines. If you can afford it, use flexible hose
that is Coast Guard approved fire resistant hose with integral stainless
steel braid reinforcement. The hose and fittings (eg, Aeroquip) are very
expensive, but are of aircraft and race car quality. Rigid fuel lines
(eg, copper tubing) are likely to fracture from vibration. We use
stainless steel braid covered teflon hose with a separate fire resistant
sleeve for the last filter to engine hose. A little cheaper. It is not a
bad idea to have a fuel shutoff valve between the tank and the engine. A
bronze ball valve with a teflon seat and stainless ball is good. 

Do not let the propeller free wheel. It causes drag than a nonturning
propeller but, more importantly, some V-drives (like mine) and 
transmissions are water cooled, and the sea water pump only pumps when 
the engine is running. 

Keep the engine clean. This makes it easy to spot fuel, oil, and water 
leaks. It also makes mechanics very happy and reduces your bill. 

The specifications for most engines include fuel consumption data
(usually lb/hp/hr). Based on these numbers and your known fuel usage, 
you can estimate how many horsepower your engine uses to push the boat. 
We use 0.5 gallon per hour at 1800 to 2000 rpm which gives 5.7 knots in 
a calm. That's 8 hp from a 25 hp engine. The engine should have a long 
life. If we changed the propeller (which would be very dumb), we might 
get 6.5 knots at maybe 1.5 gallons per hour. With the present propeller, 
our range under power is about 450 miles.

I have been warned that the usual radiator antifreezes (eg, Prestone)
are harmful to the rubber impellers in engine sea water cooling pumps.
Use the antifreeze for drinking water systems in the sea water cooling
system come winter. 'Tis also a good idea to replace the sea water pump
impeller once in a while. Should the pump impeller self-destruct, pieces
of it are like to get as far as the sea/fresh water heat exchanger. 

If the engine lacks an alarm system for oil pressure, temperature, and 
flow sea water, adding an alarm is worth considering.

Draining the fuel tank is a bit of a bother. I disconnect the line from
the tank to the first filter at the filter and put the open end into a
fuel jug. I then replace the fuel tank vent with a tire valve and use an
air compressor (a tire pump will do) to pressurize the tank to two to
three psi. This blows the fuel out of the tank quite nicely. 
Pressurizing the tank is also helpful when bleeding the fuel system 
after replacing filters.

All in all, though, I'd still rather have a diesel than a gasoline 
engine.

Alan

Boy! .0 and .3 are full of good stuff -- sure makes reading this file worth
the time.

My own thoughts, from having owned and maintained a Westerbeke 30 (4 cyl),
block by Bukh, are generally the same as others above.  A couple thoughts
and differences of opinion, however:

1) Part of closing up should be closing all seacocks others than drains.
Make opening them part of the after-boarding routine.  We used to hang a
"seacocks closed" tag on the battery switch below decks (which was left in
the OFF position; bilge pump was hot-wired past the main switch but through
its own panel circuit breaker), which got removed as a check prior to switching
the batteries on.  Occasionally for human reasons I didn't, and last fall when
I didn't once, a surprise squall put Puffin bow first on the beach -- stern
to the breaking seas.  Despite a high loop, water filled the cylinders after
only 5 minutes of green waves over the stern.  Live and learn (and pay!)

2) Religiously check oil level prior to each day's start.  We once noticed
a sudden 2-qt drop, added more, and never lost more after that.  Think what
could have happened....

3) RE: seasonal fuel, don't leave your tanks empty over the winter.  That's
when condensation may be worst.  We always filled the tank full in the fall
at lay-up time, and *drained the tank* in the spring, refilling with fresh.
Even if you don't go through a full tank in a season, you know your fuel
is good.  It's really not that expensive, especially if you use oil at home
and can figure a clean and convenient enough way to put it in your tank!
Most diesel fuel comes with anti-bacterial agents in it, since refiners and
distributors store it themselves, sometimes for many months.  Your bigger
worry, in my opinion, if water or dirt in the fuel (that means a separate
'tween-tank-and-injector-pump filter for each), and varnish build-up from
lack of use.  It really does help to run your engine up to full operating
temperature once a week, at least every two if you can.  That will melt any
varnish before it's permanent.  Most diesel fuels also have detergents in
them, too, just for this purpose -- which is one (of the several) reasons 
not to use home heating oil in diesel engines.  

John.

    re .3,	where do you get the fancy fuel line?  I'd like to use
    		it for [horrors...] an outboard instead of the unprotected
    		gas line that's standard
    
    I like to sail, but oh, them stinkpots...

I used wire braid covered teflon hose for our diesel fuel system. This
hose has a maximum working pressure of about 3000 psi and a maximum
working temperature of 450 deg F. The hose is only moderately flexible.
In our boat the hose is supported every few inches and is routed around
the engine. 

A somewhat better (and more costly) alternative is Aeroquip FC234AQP
hose. It is more flexible, has a maximum working pressure of around 1500
psi (varies with size) and a maximum working temperature of 300 deg F.
This hose will withstand a 1200 deg F gasoline fire for 2.5 minutes.
Most sizes are Coast Guard approved for commercial use. If we had a
gasoline engine, this is what I would use. Both brass and plated steel
fittings are available. Don't use brass fittings if the fittings are to
be mated with aluminum parts. 

Naturally, this good stuff is quite expensive. 

Supplier: Omni Services Inc, Worcester, MA (617-799-2746) or Manchester, 
NH (603-668-2751). Omni is an industrial supplier. 

Yesterday I took our injector pump and injectors to Diesel-X (see base
note) for cleaning and recalibration. When I mentioned that the pieces
came from a boat engine, the repair fellow offered some advice.
Paraphrased: 

The working clearances inside an injector pump are a few ten-thousandths
of an inch. Over time varnish and sludge are deposited on the internal
parts of the pump. When the pump sits for several months, this varnish
and sludge can bond the moving parts to the non-moving parts so tightly
that attempting to start the engine will break various pieces in the
pump (such as the drive shaft). This is not an infrequent event (like 5%
of the time). So, he recommends removing the injector pump and keeping
it warm and dry inside for the winter. Given that removal and
reinstallation is not exactly a quick and simple task, his second
recommendation is to crank the engine with the starter motor for several
seconds (say ten) every month or so. I would assume that this problem is
more likely to occur with an older pump or one that has not been cleaned
in a while (in our case seven years). 

Isn't it wonderful to have yet something else to worry about?

Alan

    
    	Given that my engine's running OK, (knock wood) is there a logical/
    	realistic schedule of pulling the injectors? Or wait till it runs
    	rough? (Or not at all...) I know that general care, fuel quality,
    	hours on engine etc. factor in, but I've never seen good marine
    	diesel outlines that I'd trust.
    
    	Scott (concerned more than worried so far)

re .8:

Not that I know of, but I'm no expert. An injector pipe that was
reluctant to seal (I found it needs replacement) provided me with the
movitivation to have our pump and injectors cleaned. Engines that are
little used (ours runs less than one hundred hours per year) and then
sit idle for long periods may well need service more often than those 
that are used frequently all year. Finding parts (eg, injector nozzles) 
may be a problem. Many parts from even the major diesel fuel system 
manufacturers (eg, CAV, Bosch) are, I'm told, not stocked by US 
distributors. Diesel-X sometimes has to buy parts from South America 
and Europe. They have microfilmed parts catalogs and cross-references 
going back to 1949. (I wonder if DEC will be selling parts for today's 
systems in 2033 .....)

>    
>        Given that my engine's running OK, (knock wood) is there a logical/
>        realistic schedule of pulling the injectors? Or wait till it runs
>        rough? (Or not at all...) I know that general care, fuel quality,
>        hours on engine etc. factor in, but I've never seen good marine
>        diesel outlines that I'd trust.

	My last boat had a Volvo MD6A. It started fine in the summer but was a 
	little smokey above 2500 rpm and was poor to start when the weather got
	cold.

	There was no evidence of a recent service so I pulled the injectors and
	had them serviced.


	Yes you've guessed it.  It made no difference whatever!


	Now I keep a 1 kW heater going during the winter, I leave all internal
	cabin doors open, I replace the engine oil and filter each winter, and
	replace the impeller each spring. I also keep the fuel tank as full as 
	possible to reduce condensation.

	I have no service plan for the injectors. 
		Any advance on 5 years??? 

			Gregg 

    
    	Mine's also a Volvo, 2002 (oooh! like a Beemer?), also 5 years old.
    A friend xeroxed everything that came with his boat (`90 Elite, same
    engine) and except for layup advice, info was pretty sparse. I believe
    it said to bring in a factory trained mechanic for any hiccup. Right.
    Just leave your checkbook, we'll do everything.
    	The tranny is also Volvo, and no mention of it. I guess change the
    gear lube every other year till I hear otherwise.
    	The filters were standard Beneteau practice- one Bosch, one noname.
    The company buys up a zillion of whatever looks good, then when that
    zillion is used up, moves on. Unless that same supplier keeps very
    competitive, pricewise.
    	I think Practical Sailor mentioned some superior diesel additive in
    one of the last issues. Navy loves it, yard loves it, mechanics love
    it, etc. I'll try to look it up and try it. A friend had his tank fall
    apart (inside) in a seaway, clogging the pipe, stopping the engine.
    Being a stinkpot, the Coasties had to pull him out of the mouth of the
    North River. Pretty stressful. The previous owner must have left them
    less than full, or wet fuel.
    	If carelessness doesn't get me, Murphy probably will...

Well, once again maintaining/repairing our boat has turned out to be 
interesting and (as usual) expensive. Two months ago I took the fuel 
injectors and fuel injection pump from our diesel engine to the service 
folks for cleaning and recalibration. This had last been done seven years 
and some 650 hours of running previously. 

Except for air leaking into the fuel system through a defective O-ring 
and causing starting difficulties, our engine seemed to be running well 
last summer except for a bit more smoke than usual. When the injector 
pump was cleaned and recalibrated in the spring of 1985, I was warned 
that some of the parts were usable but showing signs of abnormal wear. 
It was with this in mind that I decided to have everything looked at 
again. 

Well, today I ransomed the pump and injectors. The injector pump needed, 
among other things, a pump housing and end plate, a liner, piston, pump 
blades, metering valve, gaskets, and miscellaneous other bits. In other 
words, it had been in pretty bad shape.

The fellow (Harry) who worked on it spent some time showing me how the
injector pump is assembled and how small the working clearances are.
Alignment of the various parts during assembly is very critical. If it
is even slightly off, the pump can seize on the calibration stand, let 
alone in use. Many special (and expensive) tools are needed. Just to set
the pump timing to the timing marks stamped on the mounting flange
requires a $1500 tool. In other words, repairing diesel fuel system
components is a job only for very skilled and competent specialists with
all of the right tools. 

Harry again mentioned the problems that can be caused by varnish gluing 
the pump innards together. In the spring, turn the engine a couple of 
revolutions by hand (eg, by using a long wrench on the V-belt pulley 
nut). This will minimize the chances of damaging anything and is safer 
than simply turning the engine with the starter motor. 

I also learned a bit about parts pricing and distribution. Our pump was
manufactured by CAV in England. The USA CAV distributor charges $350 for
our pump housing. The place that overhauled our pump bought a genuine
CAV housing from a very large independent distributor who buys many CAV
parts from somewhere in South America. I paid $155 for the housing
(which was more than the repair folks paid for it). It was certainly
nice to find a repair place that makes an effort to keep costs as low as
possible. Still, it did take some two months to get all the parts and
the work done. The total bill for parts and labor was $680. Offsetting 
this is at least some comfort in knowing that our engine is more likely
to run reliably next summer than had we simply hoped for the best. This
is also a counter-example to the maxim "if it ain't broke, don't fix
it". 

Alan

    Alan,
        CAV is part of the Lucas group. It maybe worth your while in future
    sticking a note in here and seeing what we can do for you with a few
    calls etc after plastic is international these days.
    
    
    Pete

Pete,

Thanks for the suggestion and offer. I certainly don't begrudge the
folks who did the repairs on my pump the (relatively small) profit they
made on the parts. I think they earned it. They're proud of their work
and stand behind it, and I may well need their services again. Of
course, I'd be much less happy if I'd had to pay CAV list prices for 
the parts. 

What I am not very cheery about is that the pump needed major overhaul
after less than 1100 hours of running (probably the equivalent of less
than 50 000 miles on a car) on fuel that goes through three filters and
two water separators before reaching the pump. After all, CAV is one of
the major builders of diesel fuel injection systems, and I'd expect a
bit longer life before failure (like maybe 2500 hours). In all fairness,
the repair fellow did mutter something about injection pumps with
hydraulic governors being less than outstandingly good designs in
general. 

Cheers,

Alan

    Alan, the diesel pump will always be the part that runs the cost
    per hour up.   A lot of folks have traded boats before the need
    for the major overhauls.  (like a plane with an engine getting
    near mandatory insp/overhaul)
    
    For 7 years of operation (and you put a fair # of hours on for
    a Northeast user) I would regard the $100 @ year as reasonable.
    
    Figure you use 1/2 the fuel of a gas engine and that yearly 
    tune-up is a wash. (all engines need oil change,filters, etc)
    
    As we (the boating public) start to keep boats for longer time
    periods (not much trade up traffic now) we will have to deal
    with replacement of major subsystems on our boats.   To go
    sailing, its worth the trade off.
    
    My boat is 25 years old (engine too) and in the 19 years I have 
    owned it I have replaced some parts more than twice.
    
    

Frank,

I certainly agree that as one's boat ages, more and more replacement and 
rebuilding will be necessary. Still, I think that equipment should last 
a reasonable length of time with normal care. 

The most common application of my injection pump is, I was told, on
engines running commercial truck refrigeration systems. Such systems run
continously, and I doubt very much that the injection pumps are rebuilt
every 45 days (1100 hours). OK, OK, I suppose occasional running with long
periods of non-operation in between provides ideal conditions for
corrosion and varnish formation and may well be harder on the pump than 
continuous operation. Nonetheless, CAV is not meeting this customer's
expectations. As someone who works for Digital Services, I am always
struggling to meet our customers' expectations, no matter how outrageous
they might be. It would be nice to have CAV meet mine. 

Oh well.

Alan

    Alan, you are right that customer expectations need to be met.
    
    However most of the marine engines are industrial powerplants
    designed for uses other than marine.     I believe non-use is
    more destructive on precision parts than constant use.
    
    The "marine" engine builders tend to be assembly operations that
    gather parts from diverse sources.  (CAV for the pump, Hurth for
    gears, some one else for the electrics, ...)
    
    They are being driven by price/performance.   The builders of the
    boats have the most leverage but we the owners are also setting
    the price bands.  (What do you mean the repower of my Mildew 34
    will cost $15k !!)
    
    CAV's design criteria may never have included long periods of
    storage for the pump.   Or it might have included marine use as
    a feature, but they underestimated the harshness of service.
    
    Assume that for every pump used in marine service there are many
    more on the road, meeting expectations, you would have CAV putting
    improvements for the marine use on the back burner.    If these
    improvements drive the cost too high to be competative for land use
    they would not get cut in.
    
    It was like the time we at DEC were selling products for industrial
    use back in the 1970's.    Some steel mill wanted to put the std
    gear on the mfg floor as is.  We told them we would not back it in
    that environment and that they needed special enclosure for that use.
    
    Yup 1100 hours sounds low for the pump but I would like to see the
    product data sheet from CAV before I decided they did not meet 
    expectation.   The engine assembler is the one on the hook for meeting
    the end user expectations IMO.
    
    Frank
    

    
    AT one time , I ran a large automotive fleet repar facility (500=
    vehicles) we had lotys of diesels with f=uel ionjection systems from
    Bosc (both US und der faderland), and CAV. I was pretty disappointed
    with CAV as opposed to the Bosch stuuff, but being part of the LUCAS
    group(LUCAS IS Known as the Prince of Darkness by the gearheads), it
    was not surprising.
    
     In any case, you should have gotten longer life from the system . 
    The price to rebuild (680) for a 4cyl pump is pretty loe. I had a Bosch
    pump done (did not need new housing, just plungers) for a 4 Cyl MB
    industrila engine a few years back (like 1974) and it cost me over
    $400-
    that was to simply rebuid the plungers (no new housing) and re-
    calibrate it.
    
     Water and dirt are the biggest culprits of a diesel system. It was
    water that cused my pump to go south.
    
     Most Disel'd can be timed without using the fancy special tool-
    at least the Bosch sytems can. IT takes a little time, taht's all
    (3 hands help too!)
    
     Dick