Conference turris::scandia

395.0. "Personal form of address: "du" vs. "Ni"" by NEILS::SAVAGE () Mon May 21 1990 14:32

    From: [email protected] (Torkel Franzen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 17 May 90 08:09:10 GMT
    Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
    
    In-Reply-To: [email protected]'s message of 17 May 90 03:56:22 GMT
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
    (John Kallen) writes:
 
   >It is interesting to note that a "formal 'du'" has evolved in Sweden.
   >In government pamphlets, the readers are addressed as "Du"
   >(capitalized) whereas the more 'equal' "du" is used for more informal
   >purposes. It seems as if there is a need for a polite pronoun.... I
   >happily use "Ni" despite the raised eyebrows I get; I'm not
   >confortable with addressing a stringer with "du", and I think the
   >usage of "Du" as described above looks daft in printed form.
 
    This is a piece of fantasy, or, to put it more politely, a
    misunderstanding. 'Du' with a capital D has nothing to do with any
    recently evolved formality, or with the government, but is the old
    polite usage. People who are ten to twenty years older than me nearly
    always address me as 'Du' in writing, whereas I stick to the less
    gracious 'du'.
 
    A lot of young people (in stores etc) have taken to using 'Ni', in a
    recent reaction to 'du'. 'Ni' suddenly sound chic to them. It sounds
    silly to me, but it makes no great difference one way or the other. To
    understand how 'du' works in Swedish these days, think of Latin rather
    than French. 'Du' is neither intimate, nor formal, but rather a neutral
    mode of address, and one that most people - old or young - seem to be
    comfortable with. On the other hand, the use of first names - so common
    in the US - is an intimacy, unlike the use of 'du'. I for one am
    thoroughly put off when salesmen or other strangers approach me on a
    first-name basis.
    
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Lennart Boerjeson @ KTH/LNE, 
    The Royal Inst. of Tech.)
    Date: 17 May 90 10:39:58 GMT
    Organization: KTH School of E.E.
 
    I disagree. The use of "Du" has evolved to fill the gap produced when
    "Ni" was abolished. But as people still sometimes feel the need to
    point out that they are being polite (or give a polite impression) when
    *talking* "Ni" has returned. This has nothing to do with "chicness".
 
    It is interesting to note that the "du-reform" of the 60-s had its
    counterpart in a "Ni-reform" in the 20-s. Before that, you had to use
    the *title* when addressing people.
 
   - "Would the Engineer be so kind as to give me pepper, please?"
   - "Certainly..."
   - "Thank you. By the way, how do the Engineer's wife do nowadays?"
   - "..."
 
    The introduction of "Ni" was understandedly a sucess. It was considered
    "continental", which was good to some people, bad to others...
  
    In english, the intimate "thou" became so intimate that you finally
    could only use it with your lover, and with God. It thus disappeared
    and english-speaking people nowadays *always* use the very polite and
    formal "you" ... :-)
 
    !++
    ! Lennart Boerjeson, System Manager
    ! School of Electrical Engineering
    ! Royal Institute of Technology
    ! S-100 44 Stockholm, Sweden
    ! tel: int+46-8-7907814
    ! Internet: [email protected]
    !--

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    From: [email protected] (Torkel Franzen)
    Date: 17 May 90 11:29:48 GMT
    Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
  
    Well, the question concerning 'Du' is not one of opinion, so there's no
    point in yapping back and forth. I can only suggest that you check with
    people of an older generation or with your local library to verify that
    'Du' is indeed the old standard polite form. As to why and with what
    sentiments people use 'Ni', I must of course accept each person's
    explanation. The comment on 'Ni' being perceived as 'chic' was based on
    an article on the topic I read a year or so ago, in which young people
    vere interviewed.