Conference turris::cooks

	I hate to tell you but this is not low fat despite the fact
	that you used low fat ingredients.  A woman should have between
	20-40 grams of fat per day and a man between 30-60, on the
	low end of the range if trying to lose weight.  One serving
	of this recipe has almost 20 grams of fat (12 of it from the
	light butter)!

	It sounds good though.

	Karen

Thanks

    No low fat when you use 4 ounces of butter!
    
    This dish is widely known in Spain as "San Jacobo" steak, and lots of
    bars and restaurants serve it as "tapas" and also as main course...
    
    You could use just one tablespoon olive oil (polinsaturated or
    "vegetable", not animal, fat) to brown meat, even less than that browns
    nicely if you use a small pan. Then it is OK to use low fat milk,
    though the fat content in 1/2 cup of milk is almost non distingishable
    from 1/2 cup of low fat milk. In Spain we've been using olive oil for a
    thousand years and our incidence of heart attacks are very low compared
    with other nations.  We eat LOTS of fried fish, but in oil, never in
    animal fat and sure it is fattening, but not dangerous to one's health.
    (and tastes heavenly! nice and crunchy, not a bit soggy or limp)
    Ana
    

     Spain's low heart attack rate is similar to that of France, except the
    reason for it is due to the consumption of rioja, etc rather than
    bordeaux... :-)

    Then enjoy a good glass of bordeaux with the meal! still, you cannot
    call it "low fat" dish, but a very savory and classy one, high in both,
    calories and enjoyment.
    
    Ana
    

    Mea maxima culpa... I should have known better re 1/4 cup butter..
    But I used "I can't believe its not butter".  A little help with their
    voodoo labeling.  They break up the fat content into saturated and
    unsaturated.  Parts is parts and fat is fat?  Edickate me.
    
    P.S. will use oil for make in advance futures.  Promise!

    regarding fat... there are several types, saturated; insaturated and
    polynsaturated...
    the worst for our health is saturated (or aninal fat, real here REAL
    butter, lard, and all animal fat) insaturated and polynsaturated are
    vegetable fats, and the better of the two is polynsaturated because it
    contains the highest amount of high density colesterol particles...
    these particles travel at a faster speed than the low density ones and
    it "helps" the system to get rid of many of the low density fat
    particles that attach themselves to the walls of our arteries...
    
    I love cheese and I love butter, but I seldom eat them anymore... my
    father had a heart attack 20 years ago and had to drastically cut fat
    from his diet... as I said, that was 20 years ago (he is at present 91
    years old!) and thanks God, he is still with us... I also made a point,
    20 years ago to eat as healthy as I could and... I no longer "crave"
    for anything I shouln't eat. (I don't have any recipes that 
    include butter or lard or bacon that cannot be substituted with
    a vegetable version.)
    
    p.s. Palm, and coconut oil are also vetoed, all other oils are fine, the
    best being saffrower oil, seconded by olive oil... (those are the two
    best in polynsaturated fats)
    
    I learned these tips in Spain, I bet that many will disagree with me
    and it is perfectly OK, I just know from my Dad that it works and I
    follow the advice, that's all.
    
    Ana
    
    
    
    and had to drastically eliminate from his diet those items

RE: .7

That's saturated, unsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats.

The situation isn't at all as clear-cut as you describe.

What is known is that there seems to be a correlation between consumption 
of large amounts of saturated fat, such as butter and lard, in the diet and 
an increased risk of atherosclerosis and heart attacks.  It is also known 
that reduction of consumption of saturated fats can lower blood cholesterol 
levels and especially the levels of high-density lipoproteins (the "bad 
cholesterol" lipoproteins that are thought to contribute to the formation 
of atherosclerotic placques in the arteries.  Contrariwise, some 
unsaturated fat sources, such as olive oil, seem to promote low-density 
lipoproteins ("good cholesterol"), which seem to result in reduction of 
atherosclerotic placques.

All this stuff is rather iffy, and there are lots of other risk factors and 
mitigating behavioral factors involved.  There are some cultures that 
consume large amounts of saturated fat in the diet but have extremely low 
incidences of heart attacks.

Keeping fat in the diet of all kinds down to a reasonable level is good 
health advice on several counts, not just reducing risk of heart disease.

My opinion is that a lot of people are too saturated-fat-paranoid these 
days.  One piece of buttered toast isn't going to condemn you to death by 
heart failure next year.  On the other hand, eating nothing but eggs fried 
in bacon grease isn't good for you either.  Moderation is the key.

--PSW

	re: this fat discussion

	It is the fat in your diet that makes you fat, no matter
	whether it is saturated, unsaturated, etc.  For those of
	us watching our weight, we have to consider all types of
	fat.  For those of us in danger of heart disease, we have
	to consider that "bad" types of fat that cause higher levels
	of cholesterol.

	My personal philosophy is that I watch my total fat intake
	and do not care what type of fat it is.  If I keep my fat
	intake low then I'm probably protecting myself against heart
	disease even if I don't pay attention to the saturated fat
	content of the fats I eat.  FWIW though, I use olive oil
	for most of my cooking.

	Karen

    RE: -.1
    
    >It is the fat in your diet that makes you fat, no matter
    >whether it is saturated, unsaturated, etc.  For those of
    
    This is misleading.  The fats in your diet are only one factor
    in weight gain.  While fats are more easily converted into fats,
    overall calories count is a larger factor.  
    
    If you eat 1000 calories/day more than you work off you
    will gain weight regardless if it's fats, carbohydrates or proteins.
    You get no argument from me that fats will lead to weight gain
    the easiest, but all 3 will cause you to gain weight if you eat
    too much.
    
    
    				-David

RE: .9

Wrong.  It is eating more calories than you burn, from whatever source, 
that makes one fat.  Fats are the most concentrated source of calories in 
the diet (which is why the body uses them for energy storage), so 
eliminating fat from the diet and replacing it with other foods means that 
you can eat the same amount of food but consume fewer calories.

--PSW

re: the fat in your diet makes you fat...

Actually, I was quoting a phrase from the book about the T Factor Diet
which is a diet based on reducing your fat consumption while still eating
enough to fill you up.  Basically, if you keep your fat intake within the 
limits set out in this book you will not gain weight.  I think the assumption 
here is that you don't absolutely stuff yourself on carbohydrates, etc.  
Even if your fat intake is low, if you pig out on low fat items, the little
fat that is in your diet will be the first thing that is converted to
body fat.  According to this book, your body finds it more difficult to
convert carbs to body fat.  In addition, you burn more calories digesting
carbs than fat thus a low fat diet of 1600 calories is more likely to cause
you to lose weight than a high fat diet of 1600 calories.  

I try to follow this diet myself and have found that I cannot lose weight
simply by controlling my fat intake.  However, I am not gaining weight.
The T factor diet has a "Quick Melt" plan that does include a reduction in
calories.

Hmmm... maybe the mods should move this string to a separate topic so as
not to distract those interested in Chicken Saltimbocca.

Anyhow, I found the T factor Diet book to be interesting reading.

Karen

    re: .8
    
>levels and especially the levels of high-density lipoproteins (the "bad 
>cholesterol" lipoproteins that are thought to contribute to the formation 
>of atherosclerotic placques in the arteries.  Contrariwise, some 
>unsaturated fat sources, such as olive oil, seem to promote low-density 
>lipoproteins ("good cholesterol"), which seem to result in reduction of 
>atherosclerotic placques.
    
    Set mode rathole
    
    I think this is backwards, I believe that HDL is the good stuff, and
    LDL is the bad stuff.  At least that's what my doctor told me.
    
    Ken
    

    re .13,
    you are right...
    
    .8 got it transposed... may be just got it in a hurry and changed the
    order. Low density lipoproteina are the BAD ones...
    
    I throughly got it from our doctor when treating my Dad and from my Dad
    himself, he manufactured olive oil and analyzed the oil contantly to
    monitor acidity, clarity, etc. etc. etc.  Olive oil really HELPS clear
    low-density "lipos" from our blood stream.
    
    Ana
    

    
    The easy way I was told to remember the difference:
    
    LDL = Think of L meaning LOUSY type of cholesterol
     
    HDL = Think of H meaning HEALTHIER type of cholesterol
    
    Makes it easy to remember which is the desirable one.
    
    Lv

    LDL, HDL, ???
    
    Anyway I tried this recipe with Veal last night and it came out
    excellent.  I made a few substitutions with the 'fat stuff' but
    the flavors or priscutta (sp ?), swiss and red peppers were great.
    
    Regards,
    Jim