Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Some very surprising results last night.....
    
    Anderlecht ('mare of a start to the season) and Besiktas...
    
    Rangers were very disappointing...no fire power..still at least they
    didn't concede a goal (though they tried pretty hard to do so).
    
    Dezzz.

     Hi,
    
     One question :
    
     What's the country this the champion ? Please answer ...
     
     Marcelo - Brazil -

    
    Hi Marcelo,
    
    The Champions League is made up of the club champions of the top
    European countries. Ajax of Amsterdam won it last year beating A.C.
    Milan in the final.
    
    The winners play the South American club champions (Copa Libetoranios? )
    for the World club championship.
    
    
    ate mais
    
    Des. 

                  -< Ajax vs Palmeiras for World Club Championship? >-
    
    Definetely NOT!!!
    
    Palmeiras was eliminated last week by Gremio in the Copa Libertadores.
    
    Carlos

I never had understanding, why Goeteborg , Anderlecht and Salzburg had to
play a qualification. Salzburg - Bukarest : 2 teams , that have been
in EC finals , playing for one place in Champion's League - ironical.

 ST.BUKAREST   - SV Salzburg    1:0  0:0
 
 FER.BUDAPEST  - R.Anderlecht   1:1  1:0
 18.000; Kopunovic (49.); de Bilde (65.)
 
 IFK G�teborg  - LEGIA WARSCHAU 1:2  0:1
 11.000; Blomqvist (25.); Pisz (73.),
 Bednarz (90.)
 
 Macc.Tel Aviv - GRASSH.Z�RICH  0:1  1:1
 15.000; Comisetti (5.)
 
 Bes.Istanbul  - ROS.TRONDHEIM  3:1  0:3
 35.000; Kuntz (8.,85./Elfer), Ozdilek
 (87.); Brattbakk (68.)
 
 A.Famagusta   - GLASGOW RANG.  0:0  0:1
 
 Aalborg BK    - DYNAMO KIEW    1:3  0:1
 Rasmussen (86.); Schewtschenko (49.,
 76.), Kalitwintsew (36.)
 
 Hajduk Split  - PANATH.ATHEN   1:1  0:0
 11.000; Stimac (4.); Borrelli (55.)

 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE 

 Group A              Group B
 Nantes               Blackburn
 FC Porto             Spartak Moskau
 Dynamo Kiew          Legia Warschau
 Panathinaikos        Ros.Trondheim


 Group C              Group D
 Juventus Turin       Ajax Amsterdam
 Dortmund             Real Madrid
 Steaua Bukarest      Ferencvaros
 Glasgow Rangers      Grasshoppers

That's a pitifully easy draw for Blackburn. What a fix.

Mike

    Tell me about it !!
    
    We get Juventus and Dortmund, they get Rosenborg and Spartak Moscow.
    There is no justice in this world !!
    
    
    Ian$understandably_annoyed !!

    Hmmm, it does look the easier of the groups.  On the downside for them,
    there doesn't look to be an abundance of glamour games.  At least
    Rangers have got some cracking games to look forward to - despite the
    fact that they're going to get a serious thrashing along the way.

    Thanks for that display of confidence Dave. We've already beaten Steaua
    Bucharest once this season. The other 2 will be down to who plays
    better on the day. I'm booking my ticket for the Juve game now !!
    
    
    Ian$quite_excited_now_oops_maybe_too_excited !!

    It's not Steau you have to worry about.  Juve and Dortmond must be the
    favourites to qualify - Rangers will do well to finish 3rd in that
    group !

    Put it this way Dave, IF we get past that lot we'll deserve the
    bloomin' Cup. It's an unbelievable draw !!
    
    
    Ian.

    Can anyone give me the dates of all Rangers' matches in the CL
    please????
    

    Here are Rangers' matches for the forthcoming Champions League.
    
    Sep 13	Steaua Bucharest   v 	Rangers
    Sep 27	Rangers 	   v 	Borussia Dortmund
    Oct 18 	Juventus 	   v 	Rangers
    Nov 1      *Rangers		   v 	Juventus*
    Nov 22     *Rangers		   v	Steaua Bucharest*
    Dec 6	Borussia Dortmund  v	Rangers
    
    * indicates matches I am going to, and I can't wait !!
    
    
    Ian. 

    So whtas wrong with Rangers v Borussia Dortmund. Mind you, they haven't
    got a cat in hells chance of qualifying so maybe you won't miss much.
    
    Stuart

    
    > This could come back and haunt me
    
    No it won't.
    

    I don't know why I'm answering you here Stuart after that last
    statement, but the reason I am not going to the Dortmund game is
    because I have already committed to going out on that night and also
    that I will have no where to stay. The other 2 nights, my uncle will be
    back from holiday and will also be travelling to the games.
    
    OK. No ?? Tough !!
    
    Hugs,
    
    Ian.

    
    D.Kiev	1-0	Panathinaikos
    Nantes	0-0	Porto
    
    1-	D.Kiev		1-0	3p
    2-	Nantes		0-0	1
    3-	Porto		0-0	1
    4-	Panathinaikos   0-1	0
    
    
    Luis.

Dinamo Kiev is disqualified for the Champions League.
They tried to corrupt ref.  Antonio Lopez Nieto . (against Panathinikos)

Heribert

    
    I heard that too, does it mean they will be replaced?  Will the first
    round match(es) be replayed in there group?
    
    Ian

UEFA has nothing decided yet - no new rules for this group in the moment.

Kiev is out for all European Cups in the next two years.

Heribert

    
    And how stupid....here's a team that was almost assured of 80,000 per
    home match to help get them through to the quarter finals.
    
    Dezzz. 

    Dezzz,
    
    > 80,000 per home match
    
    Isn't that what they offered the referee?
    
    Stuart

Instead of Kiev Aalborg (DAN) or Anderlecht will play in this group.

Aalborg has lost the qualifying against Kiev.
Anderlecht has the best UEFA ranking.

Heribert

    
    When are they going to decide who is replacing Kiev ?
    What about the match already played ?
    
    Philippe

    
    It's been officially announced that the Danes of Aalborg will replace
    Dynamo Kiev.
    
    Probably the right decision, but I've a horrible feeling that if the
    guilty party had been Milan, Real Madrid or Juventus (instead of the
    champions of Ukraine), the whole issue would have dragged on a lot
    longer (OK, I won't say "swept under the carpet"). Maybe they'd have
    played out this year's tournament ("pending a full enquiry") and then 
    banned the club for the next couple of years.
    
    Dom                                                

    
    The result of D.Kiev-Panathinaikos is no longer valid. Anyway the
    yellow cards still count.Panathinaikos will play against Aalborg on the 
    25th of October. Next wednesday ,Aalborg will play against Porto 
    in Portugal.
    
    Luis.
    

    >The result of D.Kiev-Panathinaikos is no longer valid.
    
    Fair enough.
    
    >Anyway the yellow cards still count
    
    Whoa. Hold on. The match result no longer counts but if a player got 
    booked in that game, the caution counts? Bit of a bugger if you're one
    of the Greek players.
    
    Stuart

    <<< Note 492.29 by CHEFS::STRATFORDS "Steer clear of the Zebra Bros" >>>

>    Whoa. Hold on. The match result no longer counts but if a player got 
>    booked in that game, the caution counts? Bit of a bugger if you're one
>    of the Greek players.
    
     Stuart,

     I'm not sure if you are in the right conference . I imagine a sentence 
     containing the words "bugger" and "Greek" would be more appropriate
     elsewhere.

     Stuart

    
    Steady on......
    

Dinamo have until Sunday to appeal. I have to agree with Dom, a 'big club' 
would have not been dealt with so quickly. Or maybe (see Marseille) they just 
wouldn't have got found out so quickly.

g

>Dinamo have until Sunday to appeal. I have to agree with Dom, a 'big club' 
>would have not been dealt with so quickly. Or maybe (see Marseille) they just 
>wouldn't have got found out so quickly.
    
    I guess we're all amazed, Graham, that UEFA have actually taken
    immediate action on something! The only factor that makes this case
    different from other similar cases in the past is that it was the
    referee himself who came forward and reported the dirty deal. 
    
    Then again (and I've got my cynical hat on again!), there's always the
    niggling suspicion that what he wasn't prepared to do for two fur
    coats, he might have been prepared to do for a brand new Ferrari ;-)
    
    Dom

    
    Group A , #2
    ============
    
    Porto		2-0	Aalborg
    Panathinaikos       3-1	Nantes
    
    
    Table
    =====
                	g  w  d  l      s
    
    1-	Porto   	2  1  1  -     2-0
    2-  Panathinaikos	1  1  -  -     3-1
    3-	Nantes		2  -  1  1     1-3
    4-  Aalborg         1  -  -  1     0-2
    
    
    Luis.

    Group D # 1 and 2
    =================
    
    #1
    ==
    
    Ajax - Real Madrid		1-0
    Grashoppers - Ferencvaros	0-3
    
    #2
    ==
    
    Ferencvaros - Ajax		1-5
    Real Madrid - Grashoppers	2-0
    
    Tabel
    =====
    
    Ajax		6	6-1
    Real Madrid		3	2-1
    Ferencvaros		3	4-5
    Grashoppers		0	0-5
    
    And Ajax is not in shape yet......;-)
    
    Happy John

    Group A:
    
    Nantes 3 - 1 Aalborg
    
    Ouedec       Andersen
    Pedros
    Kocescki
    
    Porto 0 - 1 Panathinaikos
    
    
    Table:    
    
    1: Panathinaikos - 6pts
    2: Porto         - 4pts
    3: Nantes        - 4pts
    4: Aalborg       - 0pts
    
    N.B Panathinaikos + Aalborg have played one game less than the other
    teams.
    
    Gary
    
    

>    N.B Panathinaikos + Aalborg have played one game less than the other
>    teams.
    
To be played next week I think.    
    
g

This group is going exactly as expected - the only real interest is whether 
Real can get revenge in the return with Ajax.

18 Oct 95
---------

Ajax - Grasshopper Club Z�rich  3-0
Real Madrid - Ferencvaros       6-1


1 Ajax	3 3 0 0  9  1  9
2 Real  3 2 0 1  8  2  6
3 Feren 3 1 0 2  5 11  3
4 GC    3 0 0 3  0  8  0

Grasshoppers weren't disgraced in Amsterdam - but Ajax didn't have to move 
into top gear either.

Next games: 11 Nov - reverse of the above matches.

grahame

Much joy in Z�rich last night as Ajax hiccup and the Swiss react with varying 
degrees of happiness, amazement and counting of the unexpected draw bonus. 
Ajax' strikers seemed to have forgotten where the goal was and Grasshoppers 
could easily have stolen in with a bit more composure.

In the other game, Real were all over the Hungarians but couldn't score until 
late on. For you football historians, the Ferencvaros goal was scored by 
Florian Albert (Jr.)

1 Nov 95
--------

Grasshopper Club Z�rich  - Ajax 0-0
Ferencvaros - Real Madrid       1-1


1 Ajax	4 3 1 0  9  1  10
2 Real  4 2 1 1  9  3   7
3 Feren 4 1 1 2  6 12   4
4 GC    4 0 1 3  0  8   1

grahame

    Update Group D :
    
    Real Madrid - Ajax		0-2 ( read 0-4 !)
    
    It was only Ajax, Ajax and Ajax yesterday. Young players like Reiziger,
    Davids and Musampa showed Realstars as Laudrup, Enrique, Raoul etc what
    football really looks like. Two clear goals were not granted by the
    failing referee and linesmen ( who also did a bad job the weekend
    before in the Bremen-Bayern game). After the first half I thought no
    team can come over this ( also two shots on the post) and the second
    half really looked that things were going to change. but Ajax, playing
    very motivated this time took over and scored two beautifull clear
    goals ! Ajax is Groups winner and will meet Borussia Dortmund in the
    quarterfinals. That will be a nice game to watch ! Plays between
    Germans and Dutch are always interesting because both like to play
    offensive !
    
    Ferencvaros - Grasshoppers	3-3
    
    John

Quarter-Finals 1st Leg

Borussia Dortmund - Ajax	0-2
Legia Warsaw - Panathanaikos	0-0
-----------------------------------
Real Madrid - Juventus		1-0
Nantes - Spartak Moscow		2-0

Second Leg 20 amrch.

Awesome display by Ajax. Both goals made by Davids who ran from deep into huge 
holes in midfield and played killer passes into the box. For the first goal he 
got a return and scored; Kluivert got the second.

Dortmund were reduced to getting Sammer sent off after two fouls.

First game Spartak haven't won. Real's goal from Raul, set up by Laudrup.

g (who obviously has too much time in front of the box these days)

    
    I thought both Ajax and Nantes (a match I saw in full) were awesome,
    and on last nights performances should be in the Final.  I expect to
    see Ajax, Panathanaikos, Nantes and Juve in the semis.
    
    Ian

    re-1,-2 I don't know what games you were watching but Dortmund_Ajax was
    maybe not beautifull but surely not awesome ! It was a game of two
    parties, one playing very tactfully ( Ajax) and the other hardworking.
    It was a sportive game and by times fast, and with two beautifull
    goals! That's modern football, guys !
    
    John

Hi John,

It's the first time I've seen the current Ajax side over 90 minutes. And if 
you're English you're just not used to seeing a team of footballers, all of 
whom can carry the ball at speed, control it instantly, pass and score when 
ever they want. Ajax only had 2 chances - it seemed that was all they wanted.

Don't take them for granted, it won't last for ever - enjoy it while you can!

g

    re-1 Grahame
    Don't be afraid, this is not the football Ajax is used to play. The
    problem right now is that many players are injured and you can see that
    clearly. I had hoped for an open fast going game between two offensive
    clubs but the one couldn't play its game (Dortmund) and Ajax didn't
    want to play. If you compare this game to their games against Real
    Madrid you would wonder too.
    It was clear that yesterday they were very result-oriented and playing
    wisely enough very tactically. And ofcourse, if you are used to the
    excitement of the English League, I have to agree with you. But maybe
    that's the reason why so many British clubs are out. But to watch it ;
    great fun ! And hopefully next time you see a game of the complete
    Ajax-team and being thrilled ! I promise !
    
    John

    
    And did you guys not see the Nantes game?  I'd like to hear your
    comparitive comments.  Incidentally, I thought Nantes were the best
    club yesterday.
    
    (I also said that about PSG last year!)
    
    Ian

    re-1 and last year it really was Ajax, and this year most of the time
    it was Ajax and........
    No, to be frankly I didn't see Nantes,weren't they playing against a
    russian team that didn't play for three months ?? ;-)
    
    John

    
    Yes Nantes played against a Russian team, I don't know if they hadn't
    played for 3 months, but this same Russian team had won all their
    matches in the mini-league.  Nantes could have won by more.

Hi Ian,

On Wednesday night, 3 out of the 4 games were shown live (actually, I didn't 
check the Greek channel - maybe they were all on!). I'm afraid Nantes v a 
Russian team which hadn't played for 3 months (sorry!) was 3rd on my list.

(I saw PSG last night though - I was impressed with how determined they were 
to attack. But Weah must be badly missed, they seemed to be missing a 
half-decent striker)

Swiss TV clearly think that it should be German when it comes to football, so 
it showed the Dortmund game. Interestingly they're opting for Juventus-Real in 
2 weeks time - presumably as far as Dortmund are concerned "they think it's 
all over."

g

    	
    I've also watched Nantes - Moskow.
    
    Good, but don't rate Nantes too high. I like this team and the match 
    was good, but...
    
    -  The team is much less impressive than last year, with 2 players 
       badly missing (Loko & Karembeu). They are 7 th in the table, and 
       at high risk not to be qualified fot the UEFA Cup.
    
    -  The defense is very average, and it would have been interesting to
       see it versus a more offensive Russian side.
    
    -  This year, their play is based on 2 key players, Pedros and N'Doram.
       See one of them in an average form, and this team becomes average.
       By the way, N'Doram is injured and will not play the return game....
    
       At this stage they can't be, in no way, compared with Ajax.
       
    
       Pierre-Yves 

    
    OK, and Pedros was sent off so will miss the return game too.  Were
    Moscow not trying?  You said it would be interesting to see tham
    against a more offensive Russian side, I'd like to know how you can
    (theoretically for sure) find a side that is more offensive than one
    that won all its games in the mini-league section.
    
    It is also not relevant to compare league form with European form, just
    look at Ajax themselves, they've had a run of very poor perforances in
    league and cup in Holland, and yet they turned it on in Europe.  Nantes
    seem to be like that as well this year.
    
    I accept that Nantes are not the best team in Europe, but based on the
    performances on the night in question, I though they looked the best
    that day.
    
    Ian

I have seen samples of 3 games last wednesday.

The best team (in my opinion) has been Real Madrid, next Ajax.

Heribert

    Ian,
    
    On that precise game, the Russians were not very offensive. I am sure
    they will be in the return game.
    
    I was present at the Nice-Nantes match 1 month ago, and I was extremely
    surprised by the poor game Nantes offered (defeated 1:0) versus a 
    (unfortunately for me) bottom table team. N'Doram was not playing.
    
    I would be delighted if they produce a football that can be compared
    with the Ajax'one, but I remain skeptical...
    
    PYV  
    
    

European Cup Quarter-finals, second leg

AJAX  		1	B DORTMUND 	0
Musampa 74		42,000
     (Ajax win 3-0 on aggregate)

JUVENTUS  	2	REAL MADRID 	0
Del Piero 16
Padovano 55		70,000
     (Juventus win 2-1 on aggregate)
S-off: Alkorta (RM) 72; Torricelli (Juventus) 78 

PANATHINAIKOS 	3	LEGIA WARSAW  	0
Warzycha 34, 58
Borrelli 72		75,000
  (Panathinaikos win 3-0 on aggregate)
    Sent off: Jalocha (Warsaw) 31 

SPARTAK MOSCOW 	2	FC NANTES  	2
Nikiforov 33, 38	Ouedec 63, 85		
30,000
     (Nantes win 4-2 on aggregate)

    
    Nantes now play Juve, and the Greeks play Ajax.
    
    Ian

Football on SIX channels last night - all of them Juventus v Nantes.

Deserved win for Juve (2-0), with Vialli and Jugovic getting the goals. 
Vialli's was a touch-in as a corner was headed to him, while he extricated 
himself from the clutches of his marker. Jugovic crashed one into the top 
corner from outside the box.

Nantes need their collective heads examining. The ref made it clear from early 
on that he was going to book all challenges from behind, but still they 
managed to get someone sent off - for doing it twice - and countless others 
booked, all for identical challenges. They looked useful when they had the
ball, and should put up a good fight in 2 weeks, if they've enough men to pick
11 from. 

Only saw the highlights of Ajax- Panathanaikos. This seemed to consist of 87 
minutes of Ajax wandering around the edge of the Greek area,and then trying 
hopeful long shots, followed by the classic counter-attack when the Ajax 
defence chose to ignore Warchawa (sp.). Should be some return in Athens.

grahame

    
    I agree that Juve deserved to win, though from what I saw I agree that
    Nantes didn't play too badly either.  I agree also that Nantes need
    their collective heads examining for picking up so many yellow cards,
    they may have held on for a draw, or sneaked a win like the Greeks if
    they'd kept 11 men on the park.
    
    However, don't you think it would've been fairer if the ref. had booked
    some of the Italians for tackling from behind as well?  They always
    make a meal of it when someone touches the back of their legs, which
    I'm sure increases the chances of the ref. opening his book.  Why don't
    the refs know about this?  How about a EUFA directive, and, to be a bit
    fair to the ref, he didn't give free kicks every time a Juve player
    went down in 'agony'.  But, if it wasn't a foul, then the Juve player
    should've been booked for playacting, that's the rule isn't it?
    
    Right, that's got that off my chest, I now think Juve will go
    through...
    
    Ian
    
    P.S. and the other semi 2nd leg in Greece isn't going to be a cracker!

    I also thing that Juve will go through, as Nantes looked very limited
    without it 3 best players, Pedros (suspended 5 matches !), N'Doram
    and Makelele. 
    
    The 9 yellow cards versus zero does not at all reflect the match and
    looks unfair.
    
    It must also be notified that Nantes deserved a penalty when Ouedec
    was put down in the area.
    
    Pierre-Yves
    
    

    weren't the 2nd legs of the semis this week? I think I forgot to tape
    the game oN ESPN so who is in the final.
    
    regards
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    It is listed in here  somewhere...
    
    Ajax against some cheating Italians who fell over so often in the first
    leg Nantes received lots of bookings!
    
    Ian

re - 2

Ajax 3:0 in Athen,
Juventus 2:3 ag. Nantes

Final. Ajax Amsterdam - Juventus Turin