Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Group containts
    
       Moldova                  
       Albania             
       Georgia                  
       Bulgaria               
       Wales                    
       Germany           

    Pred:
    1. Germany
    2. Bulgaria
    3. Wales
    4. Georgia
    5. Albania
    6. Moldavia

    Heiko
    
    

    
    Das Gluecklos von Manchester....
    
    Well the Germans always seem to get the easy ones...but then again if
    Ireland had this Group, I would probably think it difficult. Berti
    Vogts has stated though that he wouldn't like to meet either of the
    other 'real' contenders (Wales and Bulgaria) until Novemeber as he had
    a considerable rebuilding job to do after the World Cup. 
    	
    I've got a good feeling for Wales on this group....they should relish
    Germany over most of the other seeds as they've played them quite
    frequently over the last decade and succeeeded in being one of the few
    teams to beat them on qualifying....
    
    Dezzz.
    

    Oh **** Gerany again - it's just the top qualifier from each group 
    right? oh well there's always 1998.
    
    Wales playing away in Georgia? oh its the other Georgia isn't it damn.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    I think it the top two, Andrew.
    
    
    
    /GAry

To qualify:
	Winner of each group (8) + best 6 runners up  + winners of play off
between the other two runners up = 15 + England = 16

How they determine the beast 6 runners up I dont know??

Mick

    they do it this way...........
    
    take any team that does not start with the letter W. make sure the next
    letter is not an A and if that fails, then if an les follows you have
    to be in a play off, with the team that is guaranteed to beat any team
    called Wales. Then of course listen to four years of moaning about we
    wuz robbed, and we could have won it if it wasn't for the ref and being
    drawn against Germany etc. I wonder if Scotland, Wales and the rest can
    make it now that 16 teams are in the finals. 
    
    
    
    
    As a sideline, I can't remember which tabloid it was in, but they
    suggested that Venables should try to get a bonus clause in his
    contract if England get to the finals. Someone might fall for it at the
    FA.
    
    Rich.

    re: -1
    
    I don't see why Scotland can't make it now that there's 16 teams since
    we made it last time when there were only 8 !!
    
    ( And possibly did better than another team from these islands when we
      got there !! 8-) )
    
    Brian.

    anyone hear anymore about Toshack giving up the Wales job after 1 game????
    
    I think Mickey Thomas should get the job when he's finished his
    porridge....                                              

    re .9 - it's mentioned in VNS so it must be true!

It's true. Toshack has gone. It seems that he did not know the full story 
behind Yorath being let go, and when he heard he decided he did not want to
be involved. He held a press conference in london yesterday. I believe Mike
Smith was appointed yesterday to replace him. His contract runs until 1996.

�@

    
    Wales got their Qualifying off to a winning start with a 2:0 win at
    home againts Albania. Giggs got one of the goals. I presume Hughes
    missed the game because of his groin injury. Anyone got a match
    report??
    
    JBG

    Paper said that the Albanians were well organised, commited and gave
    Wales some problems. Palace's Coleman scored from a Giggs corner after
    10 mins and Giggs himself settled the tie with a free kick after the
    hour.
    
    In between Albania had two very ggo d chances to level but Southall
    saved one and Kajac rolled his shot wide with only the goalie to beat.
    
    Looks difficult for Wales with Germany and Bulgaria to come.
    
    Paul.
    

    I saw the whole match on telly. Wales got of to a good start but faded
    toward half time. Albania had come to defend but the worrying thing was
    they managed to generate two or three good changes with very few
    attacks. There finishing was woeful. Coleman scored with a good header
    from a Giggs corner early on, the corner coming after a good run by
    Blake down the left (about the only time he was seen to good effect).
    Giggs got the second from a free kick bent over the wall in the second
    half. Coleman looked strong in the air but susceptible to misjudgement,
    a couple of times looking for the header when he was better off
    covering the forward running through. For Reading fans Williams had an
    uneventful game as there was no winger to mark. Passed efficiently but
    without flair. Positional play suspect but as he's a central defender
    that was no surprise and given that didn't do to bad in getting
    forward. Speed had his best game for Wales but that's not really saying
    much. Goss had a good game and Phillips made some excellent covering
    tackles for the defence. Blake was ineffectual and not much was seen of
    Rush. Giggs was given a roaming role and was more effective in the
    second half when he picked the ball up wide. He got better as the game
    progressed and supplied the only flair in the side. Overall a
    reasonable performance but the defence is a bit of a worry. No Hughes
    or Saunders.
    
    				Southall
             Williams     Melville     Coleman    Bodin
                        Speed  Phillips  Goss
                                Giggs
                         Blake       Rush 
   Goss got injured and was replaced by Pembridge, Blake was taken of and
    replaced by Roberts.
    

    What worries me most about the side is how young it was both in years
    and experience - if you take away Southall and Rush is very much a case
    of "who"? "who do they play for". I realise Saunders and Hughes were
    injured but it does look like we've thrown away too many experienced
    players from the World Cup qualifying campaign.
    
    Germany and Bulgaria to come - phew this is going to be tough.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    	What?? David Phillips, Paul Bodin, Jeremy Goss....these are not
    	young players!! Gary Speed is also very experienced for his
    	youth, champions medal with Leeds 3 years ago and probably about
    	30 caps...and a bloody good player too!
    
    	Only Melville really fits your description. Williams is coveted
    	by many Premier sides at the moment, Coleman is reasonably
    	experienced with Palace, but both a not experienced internationals
    	yet..
    
    	Seems like a breath of fresh air to me, Andrew...
    
    	Andy.
             

    
    ......and there's the youngster Giggs.....
    
    8-)
    
    JBG

    Well there were plenty of experienced players who weren't playing -
    Hughes, Saunders, Horne, Young, Bowen. What's more important is how
    good they are! I'd settle for players of Giggs standard in all the
    positions - experience means playing to the corner flags and pratting
    around when your 1-0 up in the last ten minutes. With players of
    high ability your defence can protect 1-0 while looking for further
    goals. What is needed is a strong central defender (next hope is
    Williams but its too early to say) and a constructive midfield player
    (Hughes is the best bet for me).
    
    Gareth 

    
    Wales palying tomorrow?
    
    JBG

No, but they may be playing.

Arf arf.

    
    Oh well, in that case I'm not interested!
    
    JBG

Well they've really gone and done it now, haven't they!

What a nightmare.

    Where exactly is Moldova? I'm reliably (?) informed that this was a
    place where Joan Collins wed into their royal family in Dyssentry 8-)
    
    

Not likely, seeing as Moldova has only existed for approximately 3 years.

It's a bloody joke that we didn't beat them.  I think the team are trying to 
prove a point...<cue unwitty remarks such as "Yeah...they're crap">...
i.e. that they want Yorath back.

    Matt,
    
    I feel you could need to get a sensayuma today...
    
    Stuart
    

    For those who didn't pick up the score, and before Jerry can stick his
    big oar in, Wales lost 3:2 away to Moldavia(sp) (I have a feeling its
    one of the bits of ex-USSR bordering on Romania and the Ukraine). There are no
    excuses, except that due to the fact that Moldavia has no airports or
    roads the sqaud flew to Vienna, hitch-hiked across Hungary & Romania
    (losing 3 players on the way) and trekked the final 250 miles to the
    stadium. To lighten their loads they left their football boots in
    Romania (probably flogged 'em!) and played in their walking shoes.
    Well, actually only 5 of the squad were able to play - the rest
    suffering from blisters, gangrene & homesickness. Bodin had to have his
    left foot amputated but it probably won't affect his game.
    Unfortunately it rained heavily during the match and the 5 players who
    took on Moldavia had great trouble staying on their feet without
    studded boots. After the game the Welsh coach admitted that it had been
    a mistake to play without studs and next time they would drill holes in
    the shoes & bring spare stud with them. Apart from that it was a fair
    result (given that the Welsh squad arrived only 10 minutes after the
    kickoff).

    	Anyway, we Welshies don't really mind 'cos we won the important
    game last night at the Arms Park. 8-)
    
    
    JBG
    

    
    	Good note. That Welshman HAS a sensayuma...
    
    	Andy.

re : sensayuma

Don't need one, now.  At least we won the rugby, so we're still in the big one.
Just goes to show how sad last night's loss was, when JBG doesn't even know the 
name of the country!


Just for Jon's benefit, it's


				MOLDOVA


Okay?  Yeah, I know, I've never heard of them either.

    Matt,
    
    Presumably by the "big one" you are referring to the Rugby World Cup
    and not the sh1t  8-)
    
    Stuart
    
    
    

fnarf!

    
    Yes, Wales beat Italy 29:19 in our final Rugby World Cup qualifying
    game. This puts us top of the European qualifying teams and gives us
    a slot in the group with New Zealand & Ireland for the finals next
    year. Jerry won't be phoning me up to gloat then!!!
    
    JBG

    
    	Yes Matt. No one can take it away from you. Wales DEFINATELY have
    	now qualified for the Rugby World Cup. There's lovely....
    
    	...and you won't be playing Western Samoa again in the "big one"!!
    
    	Andy.

    >game. This puts us top of the European qualifying teams and gives us
    >a slot in the group with New Zealand & Ireland for the finals next
    
    JBG,
    
    You seem happy about this. I'd have thought that you would do anything,
    even lose to Italy, to avoid the Kiwis. But there again I don't know
    the alternatives. I can only assume that the other group had England in
    which you must have wanted to avoid even more. Erm...as I'm not really
    into all this nationalistic stuff - (smiley thing).
    
    Paul.
    

It's definitely Moldova. Moldavia was where Prince Michael Praed in Dynasty came
from. Perhaps you'd be better off playing them because at least you'd get to
wear huge shoulder pads.

I actually think people have assumed that all these new countries are minnows,
but it's probably not the case. Croatia for a start have Boksic, Prosinecki,
Boban, Binic, et al. Moldova is probably (I'm guessing) at least as big as Wales
and football is probably their biggest sport which it certainly isn't in Wales.
Mind you now that Scott Quinnell has decided to play proper rugby things might
change.

Moldova's goals were very excellent and they're top of the group aren't they?

mike

Err...I'd like to think what you said was true (apart from the Quinnell bit), 
but unfortunately, Moldova a rated 135th in the world (I didn't realise there 
*were* 135 countries in the world.

    
    Paul, its simple. 2 teams qualify from each group. This means New
    Zealand & Wales from our group. Ie. we can lose to NZ in the first
    round & won't meet them again until the final (having disposed of
    Ireland, England, & Austrailia along the way 8-). Had we been in the
    other group, the 2 qulifying teams would have been England & Western
    Samoa! 8-)
    
    JBG

Mind you, England have got a pretty nasty group, considering how crap they are 
when they have to play in the sunshine.

	re. .35
� but unfortunately, Moldova a rated 135th in the world (I didn't realise there 
� *were* 135 countries in the world.

	Yes, once you start counting the small meaningless countries they soon
	mount up don't they? 

	I didn't say a word.

	Ian. 

    re.34
    
    This is at the centre of what Mike Smith said after the match. Because
    we haven't heard of this country (it's new) and they're rated 135th in
    the world (they've only played one competitive fixture before so they
    would probably be very low) they are discounted as having no chance
    against a traditional footballing nation such as Wales.
    
    As they were part of the USSR until very recently their players might
    not have been good enough to play for the Soviet national side but
    could be very handy players nonetheless.
    
    Smith could be right and they will cause Germany and Bulgaria problems
    and Wales could qualify. On the other hand these two could give the
    Moldavans a good thrashing and Wales would be in the brown stuff.
    
    Let's wait and see.
    
    Paul.
    
    

    
    I think that "Moldova" and "Moldavia" are one and the same.
    
    Bit like "Norway" and "Hell"
    
    	cheers,
    
    		Stefan

    Re. Moldova:
    
    If memory serves, Moldova is a small republic to the east of Russia.
    Culturally and linguistically, they have much in common with the
    Rumanians. The country has also been ravaged by civil war for the last
    2/3 years. 
    
    From a footballing point of view, they do have at least one player of
    international player - though I don't know if he was playing last
    night: Igor Dobrovolski played several times for the old USSR (and
    Russia), and also played for a year (or more?) in Italy, at Genoa. He
    wasn't a particularly great success, but I've learned not to judge
    players on how they perform in Italy. Many of the expected "greats"
    (e.g. Bergkamp) fail miserably, whereas lesser names, such as Jugovic
    or Oliveira, make the headlines. Not that this has got the slightest to
    do with Wales losing to Moldavia/Moldova last night...
    
    Not to be confused with: MORAVIA, a region of what used to be
    Czechoslovakia (not sure if it fell under the Czech Republic or
    Slovakia after the breakup).
    
    Certainly not to be confused with: MONROVIA, the capital of Liberia.
    
    Dometrios Turnerevski
    
    P.S. OK, there a probably a few inaccuracies here; if someone's got an
    atlas close at hand, they can doubtless prove me wrong on all counts
    ;-)

    bloody hell he's swallowed an atlas
    
    Stuart (Never took Geography O Level)

    OK Dom, I'll start. To the east of Russia is Japan, the northern
    Pacific and then Alaska. It looked quite big on the Sportsnight map.
    
    Paul (Geography CSE - remember those - Grade 1 1976)
    

    Team :
    
    Southall
    Symons
    Williams
    Coleman
    Bowen
    Speed
    Horne
    Phillips
    Pembridge
    Roberts
    Blake
    
    Melville came on as sub for Blake with Coleman moving up front for the
    last ten minutes. Wales started well with an eary goal from Speed
    following a backheader from Roberts which was headed on goal by
    Williams and cleared of the line to Speed to head in. Moldova equalized
    fairly quickly with a good thirty yarder. Just before half time Moldova
    went ahead from a free kick which went throught the wall and may have
    been deflected (I think it was Pembridge who tried to jump over the
    ball). A crap first half perfomance by Wales - best description is
    similar to GT and the Turnips (for all the English). Blake missed an
    absolute sitter after being put throught by Speed.
    
    Second half was much better. Speed was seeing plenty of the ball on the
    right and using it well with a couple of mazy runs. Blake had a goal
    disallowed and eventually scored the equaliser after some crap
    goalkeeping. It look like a win was on the cards as Wales ran the game,
    only one attack of note from the Moldovs when Southall save well.
    Disaster stuck when A Moldov was allowed to run from the half way line
    into about four defenders and then out again to the left without a
    decent tackle being made. He struck a good shot across Southall inside
    the far post. Took the steam out of Wales and they didn't look like
    getting an equaliser in the remaining 10 minutes.
    
    Speed had a good game as did Bowen going forward (but not defensively).
    Couldn't really fault Southall with the goals, a bit unlucky with the
    deflected free kick. Symons was lost a full back, in fact the defence
    in general wasn't too good. Blake was .... (fill in your own).
    
    Moldova looked quite useful up front but defensively suspect,
    especially in the air. Not surprising with a goalkeeper like theirs -
    not one to induce confidence. Germany and Bulgaria should turn them
    over 1 or 2 nil.
    
    Gareth 

    
    ....as a matter of [trivial] interest, how many of the former Soviet
    states are actually in Europe ?

    To answer the question, you have to decide where Europe ends and Asia
    begins. It's no good asking in purely football terms as Israel is
    considered by FIFA to be in Europe. 
    
    Anyway, does anyone know how many former Soviet states there now are? 
    It seems that every day in the news a little corner of one of the states 
    declares independence thus causing a huge bout of civil war in the 
    East of Europe.
  
    I suppose the ultimate question is, apart from the inhabitants, does
    anyone really care?
    
    Stuart

The Welsh do, because these countries are beating us at footy.

Anyway, really speaking, aren't there only 12 (?) member states of the European 
Community, and the rest of them have just decided to call themselves Europe 
because U.S.S.R. doesn't exist anymore.

    >OK Dom, I'll start. To the east of Russia is Japan, the northern
    >Pacific and then Alaska. It looked quite big on the Sportsnight map.
    
    >Paul (Geography CSE - remember those - Grade 1 1976)
    
    Errrm...hhhmmm...(wipes egg off face):
    
    I'm sure you all realise that when I say "east" I actually mean "west".
    Perhaps I'd better stick to "right" and left" in future...
    
    Dom (Grade C at O' Level geography in 1978, but nearly came unstuck on
    such interesting issues as the average precipitation in Saskatchewan in
    the month of April)
    
    P.S. In the last 24 hours, this notesfile has given proof of near-total
    insufficiency at spelling, arithmetic, geography and hell knows what
    else. I think we should all feel sick as parrots...

>>It's no good asking in purely football terms as Israel is
>>    considered by FIFA to be in Europe. 


No they're not. 
They're considered by the Eurovision Song Contest to be in Europe though.


Helpfully and hopefully accurately yours,

Peter.

>>It's no good asking in purely football terms as Israel is
>>    considered by FIFA to be in Europe.
    
>>    No they're not.
>>    They're considered by the Eurovision Song Contest to be in Europe
>>    though.
    
    
    And how do you explain this then? (hate to think what the French would
    think of not being regarded as Europeans)
    
    
    
           <<< TRUCKS::DISK$USER72:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FOOTBALL.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -<  Soccer Football Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 341.1               European Championship Q Group 1                  1 of 8
GALVIA::SPAIN "signed long gary();"                   9 lines  22-JAN-1994 15:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Group contains
    
    Azerbaijan                 
    Slovakia                
*** Israel ***
    Poland                 
    Romania                 
    France
    

    And also how do you explain away the fact that the Israeli club sides
     play in all the  European club competitions?
    
    Yours rather smugly
    
    Stuart

Err, I think you were right when you said east.

Also, I don't think being in the European Community is the defining factor in
being European. Switzerland and Austria aren't in the EC but I don't think
anyone would claim that they weren't in Europe, and the same goes for all of
Eastern Europe. I think Switzerland was pretty keen on being in Europe long
before the Soviet Union collapsed.

Mike

    
    Isn't it whoever EUFA agrees to let play in their competitions rather
    than any 'political' definition of Europe ? 
    
    Paul
    
    Geography A level and Religious Education CSE grade U 

    Moscow, currently capital of Russia and formerly capital of the USSR
    is, and has been for centuries, in Europe. However, the majority of
    Russia lies in Asia. As for all the satelite states that have come into
    being since the collapse of the USSR, I think the Black Sea is about
    the dividing line between Europe and Asia but I couldn't be any more
    specific than that.
    
    Paul.
    

    Any decision taken by FIFA/EUFA is based on political decisions.
    
    Can't really see any grounds other than that for admitting Israel. Not
    unless the Chairman had a particularly good holiday there once and was
    keen to go back on a feebie 8-)
    
    Austria are trying to join theEuropean Community and the Swiss have
    never joined in anything previously including 2 World Wars so I am
    surprised that they wnat to play in football competitions...
    
    Stuart
    (A & O levels in insensitivity, both Grade A's)
    

    I would just like to apologise to the Swiss for that last note.
    
    I have been upset by an Estate Agent and somebody is going to suffer...
    
    Yours under arrest (probably) 
    
    Stuart
    

Wrong once again. Bugger.

As least the Eurovision bit was right.

Peter.

    I believe Israel is traditionally in Europe (I mean for football)
    because they were at war with neighbouring countries and obviously
    could not play against them.
    
    This could change as peace seems to be on the way there. The first
    Palestinia-Israel game was played a couple months ago.
    
    Moldavia: a small stretch of land West of Ukraine, bordering Romania.
    At war at the moment, some want to be in Romania, some not, some
    pro-Russian, some pro this and that. Dobrovolski indeed the most famous
    player. Played in Marseille a couple months, a disaster, I heard he was
    at Atletico Madrid now.
    
    Luckily I have an Atlas in the office. Unfortunately, designed before
    the fall of USSR.
    
    /JF

    
    JF, thats exactly where I said Moldavia is. Trouble is, Matt George
    insists that it was Moldova who played Wales. You're a moderator so you
    should know! Who did Wales play last night?
    
    JBG

    The Telegraph calls it Moldova
    

So does BBC, Virgin 1215, Meridian and "The Scum"

Doubt me at your peril, JBG.

    >Moscow, currently capital of Russia and formerly capital of the USSR
    >is, and has been for centuries, in Europe. However, the majority of
    >Russia lies in Asia. As for all the satelite states that have come into
    >being since the collapse of the USSR, I think the Black Sea is about
    >the dividing line between Europe and Asia but I couldn't be any more
    >specific than that.
    
    In a world where Italy and Spain were recently invited to participate
    in the next edition of the South American Championships (I kid you
    not!), nothing should amaze us. Italy declined, I don't know about
    Spain.
    
    Another interesting case is Turkey. Not a lot of people know this, but
    Turkey is the only country in the world that can boast a city divided
    between two continents (Istanbul). So you can nip over to Asia during
    your lunch hour and do a bit of shopping...
    
    And before anyone says I was right the first time, Moldavia is
    definitely to the *west* of Russia. I think think part of the old
    kingdom was actually *in* Rumania. 
    
    Aaaaand...they've probably got more right to have a national football
    team than England have.
    
    Dom (who's desperate to prove that his C at geography O'Level was
    daylight robbery)

    
    Does it really matter ?
    
    Paul
    
    - Did England play RUMANIA or ROMANIA last night ?

Both.  And they couldn't beat either of them.

yeah yeah, and Wales couldn't beat Moldova or Moldavia.

    Matt,
    
    Hate to point it out but Wales couldn't beat Rumania or Romania in the
    last World Cup qualifiers either...although I believe that you lot may
    have beaten them at rugby recently.
    
    Stuart
    

Mr Pedantic,

I didn't say we did.  I wasn't saying England are crap, either.

But now I am...."England are crap"

<cue volley of abuse>

    Matt
    
    The welsh are...Oh I can't be bothered to rise to the bait
    
    Stuart
    

    
    Sorry Dom, wrong again.....
    
>>    Another interesting case is Turkey. Not a lot of people know this, but
>>    Turkey is the only country in the world that can boast a city divided
>>    between two continents (Istanbul). So you can nip over to Asia during
>>    your lunch hour and do a bit of shopping...
    
  	Istanbul (previously Constantinople) lies entirely on the Western 
    >European< side of the Bosphorus. You can pop across a bridge (almost
    identical to the Severn Bridge which joins our beloved nation 8-) for
    lunch, and you can (apparently) stand on the bridge (ok, so there are 2
    bridges now but who cares), in the middle I suppose, and claim to have
    one foot in Europe & one in Asia. The reason I know these things is
    'cos I did an Object Orientated Belly-dancing course there a few years
    back (before Jerry's time). It true that Istanbul is divided North /
    South by an inlet (the "Golden Horn" I think its called) from the river
    but both parts are definitely in Europe.
    	Galatasary's ground, btw, is on the north side of the inlet, only a
    few hundred yards from the river. The Bosphorus, btw, connects the
    Black Sea with the Sea of Marmara which you can find at the top left
    corner of the Aegean Sea (North Eastern Med'). It is thought that the
    Welsh squad will be making the journey down the Bosphorus tonight (they
    managed to swap their kit for a boat & 3 oars (saves them walking
    back).
    
    JBG 

	Dear Moderator,

	Surely there is only one England, so that that should be
	"England is crap" and not are.

	Yours Politely, 

	A Englishman.

    >	Surely there is only one England, so that that should be
    >	"England is crap" and not are.
    >
    >	Yours Politely, 
    >
    >	A Englishman.
    
    Surely this should be "An Englishman". The indefinite article coming
    before a noun or adverb should change to "an".
    
    Paul. (GCE O'Level Grade B 1976).
    
    PS When can we get onto Physics and Technical Drawing?

    >before a noun or adverb should change to "an".
    
    Oops, before anyone notices my deliberate mistake, I meant to say a
    noun or adverb begining with a vowel.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    
    ohferfu**sake

    Paul,
    
    We could move on to the design of football grounds, as discussed in
    last night's Dispatches (C4 9.00pm). That would tenuously lead us into
    Tech Drawing, but I couldn't really comment on that as none of my GCE
    O'Levels (1976) are in that. Now as for Physics.......
    
    Rob
    
    P.S. I don't know if you saw the programme, but it was very disparaging
    about Hillsborough, and how the staff have not implemented proposals
    from the Taylor Report - Please comment (General Studies/Politics?)
    

    re: .69
    Very authoratatatative reply, Jon...you certainly know your Turkey. 
    
    I couldn't get a grant from my local authority to do that
    Object-Oriented (ORIENTed...geddit?!) Belly Dancing course, but I did
    spend a large part of my honeymoon in Istanbul, about 300 yards from
    Galataseray's stadium. And I still maintain that part of Istanbul is in
    Asia. Either that, or our guide was having a bit of a laugh.
    
    You may be interested to know that Paul Lem's GCE O'Level results, as
    published in this conference, indicate a standard deviation from the
    mean of +/- 6.38%.
    
    Dom (GCE O'Level in Statistics 1978)

Kachi

Matt (G.C.S.E. in Welsh)

    re .75
    
    Rob,
    
    what was that dispatches thing on about then ? Did they discuss Meadow
    Lane at all, or were they just talking about football grounds..
    
    Paul
    
    German O level (Mock failure)

    Re: .76
    
    Dom,
    
    care to tell us why you needed to engage the services of a guide on
    your honeymoon ?
    
    
    
    ;-)))   Jerry.

    Watty,
    
    You're obviously not aware that Meadow Lane has now been completely
    refurbished, the 1910 main stand being replaced this last close season.
    
    But no, it wasn't mentioned. In fact it seemed to concentrate on
    Hillsborough and Valley Parade, and asking why they of all grounds have
    not incorporated *all* of the proposals from Popplewell and Taylor.
    
    It discussed things like stewards watching the game not the crowd (No
    surprise there) ganagways not being painted distinctively, and smoking
    being allowed in wooden stands. To be honest it was a bit tabloid, and
    seemed to be trying to make an example of a few clubs without
    mentioning the good ones (except Donny Rovers - Mike Fowler alert - who
    pay their stewards to do a stewards job; most clubs don't apparently).
    
    Goodison wasn't mentioned either.
    
    Rob

    >care to tell us why you needed to engage the services of a guide on
    >your honeymoon ?
    
    Jerry,
         
    I shall resist going for the cheap giggles and stick to the truth. We
    were up to our neck with the preparations until the last minute, and
    decided to latch onto a guided tour in order to avoid the stress. In
    any case, we had plenty of freedom to do our own thing (whatever that
    may mean ;-)).
    
    Dom

    re ohferfu**sake                  
    
    Erm...yes.
    
    I was on some powerful drugs yesterday. A couple of beers at lunchtime
    and a serious dose of boredom. A bad combination.
    
    re .75.
    
    I didn't see the Dispatches programme but I'm surprised that Hillsboro'
    doesn't comply with all the Taylor report recommendations. What exactly
    did they point out - was it fairly trivial thing or quite serious.
    
    Paul.

    Why did Dispatches suddenly decide to screen a programme on football
    grounds? I must have missed the news when it suddenly became a
    newsworthy item again. The only thing I recall hearing about the Taylor
    Report recently was in some book due to be published, Big Fat Ken
    Clarke dropped a bombshell and told us Maggie T hated football. Funny,
    I'd kinda got that idea meself already.
    
    Stuart

    
    Hey come on guys, this is meant to be the Euro-Champs Group 7
    Qualifyers note. Lts cut the crap about football grounds so we
    can get on with discussing the important subject
    
    ..........Dom's honeymoon!!!! 8-)
    
    JBG
    
    Ps. Dom, if you were in the Hilton, I assure you, you were definitely
    	in Europe! 

	re .71

	Can I just point out that this...

�   >	A Englishman.
�   
�    Surely this should be "An Englishman". The indefinite article coming
�    before a noun or adverb should change to "an".

	...was in fact deliberate, and intended as a "joke". 
	Ha ha. Ha ha. Ha.

	Ian. 

    Dear A,
    
    whogivesashit ?
    
    A. N. Irishman.

    Mr Moderator,
    
    Currently the Government are making a plea for proper grammar and
    pronunciation of the English Language. Obviously, as we are studying
    the written word in these notes, proper pronunciation is out of the
    question but proper grammar is attainable if only my fellow noters 
    could be bothered.
    
    Please can we have our language back
    
    Yours (waiting to get shot down in flames over bad syntax, etc.,etc.,
           and sarcastic comments over previous entries)
    
    Stuart
    
    Passed A level English in 1984 but can't remember the grade. 

I thinks I talks tidy like.  My mates in Swansea thinks I talks posh.

    Can somebody please learn Matt to talk proper !!!

I does.

    
    I made a brilliant discovery in Sainsbury's over the weekend....
    
    Cabernet Sauvignon at only #2.99 from....
    
    Moldova! I have to say it would probably not meet with the Oz Clarke or 
    Gilly Goolden seal of approval, but it seemed eminently quafable as the 
    third bottle with the Sunday dinner :-)
    
    Apparently the Moldovan white wine due in the shops in early '95 won a
    Silver Medal at the 1994 supermarket wine challenge. I'm sure it will
    be going down a storm in Cardiff and Swansea ;-)
    
    Rob

    
    	Got p*ssed again, eh, Rob? Tch Tch Tch!!
    
    	Any incriminating photos this time? 8-)
    
    	Andy.

    I think I' ve missed out on this - 
    
    Gareth
    GCE's in Geometric and Engineering
    Drawing, Metalwork and Botany

>>            <<< Note 347.92 by TRUCKS::SANT "Feed me, Seymour!!" >>>

    
>>    	Got p*ssed again, eh, Rob? Tch Tch Tch!!
    
>>    	Any incriminating photos this time? 8-)
    
>>    	Andy.
    
    Nah ! Sorry Andy, I was with the wife this time....
    
    ....but I'll buy if anyone's got any of her ;-)
    
    
    Actually I was down your way on Saturday playing in a 6-a-side in
    Eastleigh. We came third but I finished top scorer for the Headless
    Chickens......
    
    Rob
    

    
    	There's got to be a funny line to that but I can't think of one
    	right now...
    
    	Andy.

In case you don't know...

Wales were beaten 5-0 !!!!!!! in Georgia this afternoon.

Another sad day for a talented team.


Peter.

    I take it Sparky wasn't playing!?
    
    Paul.
    

	5-0,....Roberts was obviously playing then !

    
    I'm not so sure. I know 3 key players were back from injury & these
    were Rush, Saunders & 1 other who I thought was Sparky. Still, its a
    result. Just the wrong one!
    
    JBG

    
    Ok guys, you may laugh, but Wales were never in with a chance this
    afternoon. I can't be bothered to go into long details explaining why.
    If you're interested, read 347.26, substituting Georgia for an instance
    of the word Moldavia!
    
    JBG

    Bloody hell
    
    Welsh football really is the pits

    Oh dear,
    
    Bad luck, Jon. At least you can empathise with the Manchester City fans
    after last Thursday's game !
    
    Yours (availing of yet another tenuous link to mention ManU in a
    non-ManU note !),
    
    Jerry.

It can get worse !

Peter.

I think he had it right the first time.

Notice it's alright to slag certain people off, IREID.

    Matt
    
    Have you got a persecution Complex?

nope.

Mike Smith is writing to EUFA for clarification of the 4 foreigners 
rule. Apparently he is fed up with the appalling disadvantage of having to
play 11 Welshmen.

Stuart

Didn't realise he was.

    
    	re .108..
    
    	8-) 8-) Stuart, you're such a wag! ;-)
    	
    	Andy.

Hughes, Speed, Southall, Saunders and Rush were all playing, so that's their 
excuse out the window.  Prats.

    Yeah Matt, but without that bastion of the Welsh defence, Ryan Giggs,
    they were bound to let in a few !  Jon will probably enter another
    excuse note later today. At the moment he still feels far too much like
    the proverbial parrot !
    
    Jerry.

It looks like the Welsh FA have got what they deserve.  Sack a good manager
with decent tactics and get one in on the cheap.  Obviously took lessons from
the Welsh RFU :-)

To me it looked like the players didn't believe in the tactics employed.  It's
no use playing 3 strikers however good they are if the ball is in your
panalty area fro 85 minutes of the match.

Yorath had it right by playing Hughes in midfield (his best position IMO) to
give the team at least a semblance of a chance of holding the opposition.

Being English I feel sorry for the Welsh players and public.  The morons in the
Welsh FA (F*** All Use?) should resign and the new lot get Yorath back where he
belongs.  Get a 3rd rate manager - get a 3rd rate team whoever is in it.

    
    Anyone see the Albania v Germany game....almost went down to the
    Evangelist Chrurch for some entertainment (that's why we were on
    holiday yesterday.. Buss and Bettag). I can't see Berti lasting long..
    2-1 against Albania is hardly a great result.
    I was reading in the Bild magazine in the match preview....
    Germany have 5.6 million footballers...Albania 2,000....a fine ratio
    that is NOT realised in the scoreline....
    
    Dezzz.
    

Albania - Germany	1:2 (1:1)

0:1 	Klinsmann (18.min.)
1:1	Zmijani   (33.)
1:2	Kirtsen   (46.)

Heribert

    Well, you still got the 3 points. Much better than France and Italy.
    
    /JF

Nice to see that "the SCUM" managed to squeeze two puns out of the news that BFR 
has been approached by the Welsh FA.

"Help me Ronda"

Christ!

Apparently, if BFR says no, they're going to go for Mike bloody Walker! That'll 
really solve the crisis!

    
    Courtesy of John Hussey's newspaper (he's too lazy to enter it himself) :
    
    	John Toshack has been sacked by Real Sociedad creating speculation
    	that he will be re-appointed Wales manager.
    
    Can't see it meself.
    
    Malc.
    

Something else I found amusing on the net.

Stuart

----------------------------------------------------------------------



The FAW has named some surprise choices in an effort to get the EC
Qualifying bid back on to the rails.

1. Southall (Everton)
2. Vinnie Jones (Wimbledon)
3. Tommy Lee Jones (Houston)
4. Mian Mrsjones (FC Popsong)
5: Tom Jones (Itsnotunusualtobelovedby anyone)
6: Corporal Jones The Butcher (Dads Army)
7: Aliassmithand Jones (AC Montana)
8: Jesus Jones (FC Popsong)
9: Keep Ingupwivthejoneses (Next Door)
10: Andy Williams (Moon River)
11: Williams Renault (F1 Racing)

The only shock ommission appears to be that there is no place for striker
Linda Evans-Colbyco (Dynasty).

Associated Press

Shame they didn't think of those selections before last night's debacle.

Is Jones the steam (Ivor the engine) still available?, and I've heard that 
Fireman Sam's local side Pontypandy have put him forward for selection.

    Grahame,
    
    I do apologise - I shall have to use more reliable sources in future.
    I've deleted the erroneous note and included the correct (hopefully !)
    results and table here.
    
    Jerry.
    
    
		Albania 0           Georgia 1
                Moldova 0           Germany 3
                Wales 0             Bulgaria 3
                Germany 2           Albania 1            

                                P  W  D  L Pts
            Bulgaria            3  3  0  0   9
            Germany             3  3  0  0   9
            Moldova             4  2  0  2   6
            Georgia             4  2  0  2   6
            Wales               4  1  0  3   3
            Albania             4  0  0  4   0

No probs Jerry - I'd have thought we'd have seen a German or two in here by 
now to correct it, but perhaps they're still out celebrating their latest 
stupendous victory? 

grahame

    
    Mmmm...I 'think' most Germans accept the fact that they qualify
    for tournaments (finals that is). A stupendous victory it was too ??
    How can a team get 3 consecutive victories without breaking sweat. Mind
    you the opposition was pretty poor. I think Stoichkov and Co will at
    least wake them up a bit...they're starting to look like the mid-80's
    German team...extremely boring.
    
    Dezzz. 

    				
    					Yes.

    
    Has Vinny Jones been picked to play for Wales again?  
    Is he at least in the squad??
    
    Choppers
    

    He's certainly in the squad. Bulgaria will be the first country
    to experiment with the new 'Nose' pads for extra protection.
    
    Andy

    
    Well, the new nose pads didn't do Bulgaria any good at all.........
    
    ......Deano Saunders scored for Wales........
    
    ......so we only lost 3:1 8-(

    Nice to see that the Welsh footie team are trying to emulate their
    rugby counterparts.

The Premier League lost another weekend to Internationals. Fixtures are 
mounting up, why oh why don't they take a firm stance with EUFA and 
re-access the European Championships. The qualifying groups are too big
which results in too many matches , and all the attendant problems that
causes the domestic leagues. Why not reduce the groups to a minimum and have
a pre-qualifying tournament for the footbally challenged countries ( e.g
Moldavia, Faroe Islands, Wales etc ). It should also save these footballing
minows a fortune in expenses.


What say the panel?

Stuart

    Well it looks like Ryan Giggs will never play in a European or World
    Cup Final if the Welsh team keep up the current run of results...
    
    I think they should get Terry Yorath back....  at least he nearly got
    them to USA 94... it's more than his successors has done...
    
    Rick.

    
    Stuart,
    
    	I don't like the tone of your note mate. Are you suggesting that
    Moldavia & the Faroe Islands are "footbally challenged countires"?
    
    JBG 8-)

    
    
    re.132
    
    Why don,t they just cut the number of league games, so leaving plenty
    of time for national teams to get some practice on the smaller nations
    and give managers the chance to play up and comming players.
    
    

    Score??

    Results:
    
    Georgia - Germany 0:2 (2x Klinsmann)
    
    Bulgaria - Wales 3:1
    
    Albania - Moldova 3:0
    
    Table:
    
    1. Bulgaria		12	12:2
    2. Germany		12	 9:2
    3. Georgia		 6	 6:5
    4. Moldova		 6	 5:12
    5. Albania		 3	 5:7
    6. Wales		 3	 5:14
    
    Next fixtures:
    
    26.04. Germany - Wales
    	   Georgia - Albania
    	   Moldova - Bulgaria
    
    markusFCB_

    
    At last, some easier opposition next for Wales! 8-)
    
    JBG

    
    Re -.1
    
    	as I predicted.....finally Wales show their potential 8-).
    
    I missed Deano's goal in the 8th minute but from then on it was all
    Germany. I lost count of the number of chances they had - at leat 4 1
    to 1's on Southall & they either missed or Southall blocked it - the
    Germany commentator kept going on about Southall being past it; too
    fat, beer gut etc so it was great to see him have a good game and keep
    Klinsmann & co out. The commentator also informed us that most of the
    Welsh team were over the hill (ok, he had a point, they looked it 8-),
    and Vinny Jones, the Iron Man, drinks heavily & would be more at home in
    Jack Charlton's team! 8-)
    	Germany's goal came a few minutes before half time, a long high
    ball taken 1st time on the volley. They certainly deserved more and
    Wales have anyway already blown any realistic chance of qualification
    but who care - another great result against Germany!
    
    JBG
                    

    
    The German commentators are always moaning when things are not going so
    well. They moaned about Saunders offside goal...they moaned about Wales
    being old etc...rather ironic to think that the young masterful German
    lads couldn't beat a ragged old Welsh team. 
    
    Southall must be Klinsmann's nightmare over the last couple of
    weeks....
    
    This was Southall's best performance since against Holland (in Holland)
    about ~6/7 Years ago.
    
    Dezzz.  
          

Well taken goal by Saunders, even if he was errr....bordering on the off-side.
Germany deserved to win it, but it is great to see them not get things all 
their own way for a change.  What a weird result.

re .141

"The German commentators are always moaning when things are not going so
well.."

This is well known in Austria. In sports , Austrian sportsmen and -women
are winning against German - than the German commentators mostly found
any reasons. (Salzburg ag. Francfurt,KSC - luck, Austria in tennis:
Muster defeats Stich : Austrian spectators not fair, Schaller defeats Stich
(yesterday): Stich not fit, Formula I : Berger/Schuhmacher, aso.)

But the German commentatots "love" Austrian players (such as Polster,Herzog)
when the are playing in German teams� 

If You see a "conflict" between Austrian and German in sport, this is no
conflict between the people of both countries. This is a conflict with
German sport-commentators.

I have seen Germany - Wales: Congratulation to Wales, a good result.

Heribert

    results:
    
    Germany - Georgia 4:1    
    German goalscorer: M�ller, Ziege, Kirsten, Babbel
    
    Albania - Bulgaria 1:1
    
    Wales - Moldova 1:0
    
    markusFCB_

    Mr. Vinny Jones, (very nice person), has been banned for 5 games after
    stamping on a Georgian player in the Wales v Georgia game on June 7....
    it's nice to know that in this ever-changing world that some thngs
    will never change....good on ya, Vinny!..8))>-0
    
    Ray....

    hey we only lost 2-1 to germany!

    but your U-21 lost 5-1 to germany.......
    
    markusFCB_

I thought Blake looked very impressive for Wales last night - he was 
everywhere, and he desrved a better result. Sadly Saunders once again only 
looked great until he got a scoring opportunity. I thought Wales did very well 
to keep Germany out for so long, but then it all fell apart with just over 10 
to go. Firstly Southall came for a nearpost cross and missed it, leaving 
Neville with no time to get out of the way. Then, soon after Helmer backheaded 
into his own goal, Klinnsman was allowed to get away from his marker and nod 
home a first time centre.

It seemed to be the same old Wales - loads of spirit (though Speed was quiet), 
but no real football played in the midfield. I would blame Southall for the 
first goal, but he was already well in credit by then - the fault lies further 
up the pitch.

grahame

    Albania  1 - 1  Wales
    Moldova  3 - 2  Georgia
    Germany  3 - 1  Bulgaria
    
    
    Final Table
    -----------
    
              P   W  D  L  F   A   Pts
    Germany   10  8  1  1  27  10  25
    Bulgaria  10  7  1  2  24  10  22
    Georgia   10  5  0  5  14  13  15
    Moldova   10  3  0  7  11  27   9
    Albania   10  2  2  6  10  16   8
    Wales     10  2  2  6   9  19   8
    
    
    
    Gary