Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Group contains
    
    Azerbaijan                 
    Slovakia                
    Israel              
    Poland                 
    Romania                 
    France

    Pred:
    
    1. France
    2. Poland
    3. Romania
    4. Israel
    5. Slovakia
    6. Azerbaijan
    
    Remember where you heard it first :-)
    
    I wonder how the poltically unstable regions will be treated. Will
    travelling teams be forced to play in Azerbaijan, for example ?
    
    Heiko

Oh - Poland is no team for the second place. Our team has won in Poland.

Poland - Austria   3:4

Heribert

    France 0 - 0 Romania
    
    Best French performance since... France-Brazil in 1986!
    
    That sums it all! Unfortunately, the 4 or 5 clear chances did not bring
    usa goal.
    
    But grit, determination, technique, a far cry from last game.
    
    By the way, previous games include:
    
    Romania 3 : 0 Azerbaidjan
    Slovakia 0 : 0 France
    
    Standings so far:
    ------------------
    
    1. Romania	4
    2. France	2

    
>    1. Romania	4
>    2. France	2
	Sorry for opening an old wound, but the real thing is:
     1. Romania	4	played 2 games
---- 2. Israel  3       played 1 game ------
     3. France	2	played 2 games

	On the other front, I totally agree with JF, this was by far the
	most entertaining game I have seen France play in a (long...) while.
	
	If they play similar stuff again, qualification should not be a big
	problem, we will soon see what happens against Poland...
	
								.Andre.

    
    Did anyone who saw the France v Rumania game notice how Popescu and
    Dumitrescu played for Rumania.
    
    I read that Rumania were very defensive, maybe they can give Ossie some
    tips on keeping a clean sheet.
    
    Dave...

    I watched the France Romania game and although it was an entertaining
    match you have to wonder when France are ever going to beat someone
    either in a competion or a friendly. I haven't seen them win anything
    for ages ! You have to say that the result was better for Romania as
    they were away from home and since the rule at this level is draw your
    away matches and win at home then you could hardly say that this is
    good for France.
    
    Running around at top speed for 90 minutes creating lots of chances is
    great for watching on TV but when the opposition gets a couple of
    breaks and scores twice (like Czechoslovakia did recently against
    France) then you've got to wonder about the quality of the finishing.
    
    At the moment France seem to be missing a figure like Papin who is now
    nearing the end of his career. So, although I like the look of the
    team and the football they play is attractive I can't see how France
    are going to advance in the competition when they draw all the time.
    
    Who's going to score the goals ?
    
    Dave WOOD

    
    The coach (Jacquet) believes that Cantona can do the job.
    
    Apparently, it's not the case.
    
    PYV

    Anyone got the Poland-Azerbaidjan score?
    
    Anxiously yours
    /JF

    For the first time in months I bought France Football and what a load
    of bovine excrement it turned out to be. Very negative. There must be
    something I don't understand.
    
    France played the best football since........... a long time. OK, no
    goals this time but it should have been 3:0. I bet you'd read different
    reports if they only had scored one.
    
    They gave a 2 to Ou�dec and Blanc! (Scale of 1 to 6, from terrible to
    exceptional).
    
    The mind boggles. I don't care if they qualify or not. I want them (and
    us) to be proud.
    
    Cheers
    /JF

    Quetion: Why do FF give a score on a scale from 1 to 6? Usually it's 1
    to 10 or 1 to 5. 
    
    Yours trivially
    
    Stuart
    

    
    In Germany different newspapers and football magazines use totally
    different systems. In the Tagezeitung 1-10 (bad to good) whilst in the
    Kicker magazine from 6-1 (bad to good).
    
    Dezzz.

    Dezzz
    
    Am i right in understanding that Kicker give marks on a descending
    scale but go from bad to good, ie 6 being diabolical and 1 being
    superb. No English player could cope with that. Anyone getting a 6 in
    the News of the Screws would be over the moon whereas in Germany they
    should be sick as a proverbial. If my understanding is correct, Klinnsman 
    must be suicidal with the marks he's been getting 8-)
    
    Stuart
    

    Poland 1: Azerbaidjan 0
    
    We now have:
    
    1. Romania	4
    2. Israel	3
    3. Poland	3
    4. France	2
    5. Azerbaidjan 0
    
    Next game for France is away in Poland. Win or die this time.
    
    /JF

    
    Stuart...right on....but we all know that Klinsmann only reads the
    Financial Times (sic) these days !!!
    
    Dezzz.

    
    Yesterday's result: 
    
       Poland - France  0:0
    
    An alarming French team, to say the list.
    They stayed back along the match, without building anything.
    Fortunately, the Poles were not very dangerous, and when they were, 
    poorly finished.
    France, however, had to play the second half with 10 players, Karembeu
    being sent off, and under a constant rain, and temp close to 0 degree.
    
    The only French players who tried something: Ouedec and Djorkaeff.
    I did not appreciate at all, among others, Angloma for many rubbish 
    passes, and Cantona, who was a shadow and did not bother to run when he 
    had to.
    
    Chances of qualification are now small. Only a victory in Romania could
    help.
    
    PYV  
    

    I understand Israel won against Azerbaidjan in Turkey.
    
    The table should be:
    
    1. Romania		7  Pts
    2. Israel		7
    3. Poland		4
    4. France		3
    5. Slovakia         ?
    6. Azerbaidjan      ?
    
    Agree with PY: Angloma had a disastrous evening and Cantona could not
    bother running when losing the ball. Will Jacquet be fired at last? He
    is not a motivator.
    
    I liked Ou�dec and Djorkaeff too. Poor Desailly had to run around to
    fill in the gaps and when Pedros went out on an injury the little
    creativity we had just vanished.
    
    Oh my... Next game is in Turkey against Azerbaidjan. Now, if we don't
    get 3 points from that game , bye-bye England 96.
    
    Bloody Hell
    
    �JF?
                          

>    I understand Israel won against Azerbaidjan in Turkey.
    
Yes - 0-2.

g

    
    Its not as bad it it seems...two away draws and a home draw against
    what might be considered the group favourites (Romania). Picking up a
    draw in Poland and Romania and winning all (even a draw in Israel)
    should see them through....But they have to start scoring at some
    stage...!!!
    
    Don't forget that Romania and Poland picked up exactly the same points
    from the matches as France did....
    
    Dezzz.

    Dezzz,
    
    It's not so much the point situation that worries me. It's
    
    1. 3 games in a row and no goal scored
    2. Style
    
    Where is the France of a few years ago? At least we had style most of
    the time. Nowadays, a bunch of dispirited one-leggers running about the
    pitch with no direction. They do not play together any longer, they only
    want to justify their presence individually and the manager is the
    worst we've had for a long time.
    
    I don't care about qualifying. I only want to be proud of the team.
    
    Bring back spirit. Get Luis Fernandez or Tigana.
    
    /JF                                                                

    
    I agree 100% with JF !
    
    With such a team, and overall such a coach, I don't see the team play
    much better, and eventually qualify.
    
    We have to remind that Jacquet failed miserably in his passed Club
    coaching experiences, with always bad relationships with the players.
    
    PYV  

	Re: .20 and .21
	
	You get my vote aswell, Jacquet can go anytime. The more I see how
	the team "plays", the more I hear him "speak", the more I get
	frustrated (to stay polite...)

	Bring back Henri Michel (or any other previous failure), all is
	forgiven :-)

								.Andre.

    
    Not Georges Boulogne, though....
    
    Why not to take a foreigner, a la Kovacs ?
    
    PYV

    Hello, it's me again, the prophet of doom from .7
    
    I heard recently that the French coach is going to bring back Jean
    Pierre Papin for the next national attempt at scoring a goal.
    
    Oh dear, oh dear, signs of desperation I fear since he's done nothing
    for months at Bayern Munich (only one goal all season) and can hardly
    be considered to be "on form". Still, he ought to be able to give
    everyone a laugh as he fires all those cartwheel kick things he does
    over the bar and then grins stupidly like the chevre he is.
    
    Dave WOOD

    
    Considering the recent brilliant results, and overall the number
    of goals scored (0), it cannot be worse. 
    Then aligning JPP, why not, after all ?
    BTW, he scored 2 goals for Bayern in the Euro Cup.
    
    PYV

    
    Azerbaidjan - France  0:2
    
    Not a great match, to say the list.
    On a very wet and cold pitch (heavy and cold rain), France deserved
    however to win versus a poor Azeri team.
    
    Goals from
    - Papin (yes) on a volley
    - Loko after a Cantona's header deflected by the keeper
    
    France dominated the whole match, but often failed to score, as usual.
    
    Hope this will improve in Israel in January
    
    PYV
    

    Typical isn't it ? As soon as I go slagging off Jean Pierre Papin
    he goes and scores once in a game where he played not too badly.
    I'm going back to read-only....
    Dave WOOD 

    re: -1
    
    Oh no I think you should continue.. :)

    
    I think you can continue, you should watch the goal!  (goal keeping
    error!).

    and Israel and Romania drew 1:1.
    
    Standings:
    ---------
    
    1. Romania		8 pts.    3 games
    2. Israel		8         "
    3. France		6         "
    4. Poland		4         2
    

    
    Last results
    
    Israel - France  0:0
    
    Romania - Poland 2:1
    
    Another disappointing result for France, still enable to score.
    OK, they did'nt take any goal since the beginning of the competition,
    but 4 draws 0:0 is against the nature of the French teams.
    The had several good occasions, but missed them. The Israeli played
    quire well and also had occasions, allowing Lama to be brilliant again.
    
    Next match: France - Slovaquia in France
                A win is definitely madatory for France to stay in the 
                competition. This time, they will have to score, with a 
    	        considerable pressure (the press is very harsh), facing
                a team better than expected... the classical trap, where 
                the French often fall in (eg Bulgaria).
    
    A disappointed PYV
     

Has someone forgotten to tell France it's 3 points for a win in this 
competition?

    
    Now that Cantona has been released, he will be able to inform them.
    
    PYV

    
    FRANCE - SLOVAKIA   4:0     Kristoffik (o.g.)
    				Ginola
    				Blanc
    				Guerin
    
    A good game for France, with, at last, goals, 2 of them being bery
    nice, by Ginola (superb header) and a volley from Guerin.
    A solid match, with people who really had to win to keep all chances
    to qualify. The match was played at Nantes, and the crowd was much more 
    supportive than at Paris.
    
    Other results:
    Poland - Israel        4:3
    Romania - Azerbaidjan  4:1
    
    Romania still leading, with France now second, and Israel third.
    
    PYV
    
    
    

    
    What's the result of yesterday's game between France and Poland ?
    I know Poland was leading 1-0 twenty minutes from the end, but then I
    left.
    
    Any french noter please ???
    
    Fred.

    
    Sorry not to have replied, but I had to take some vacation time.
    
    Result: 1-1
    
    What an incredible match ! Believe me, I am objective saying that the
    Poles passed the midline only twice in the match, and scored an early
    goal, on an (IMO) Lama's mistake.
    
    Then the French had something like 20 occasions, missing unbelievable
    sitters, several times alone facing the keeper. They also had a
    penalty, also missed by Lizarazu (Ginola, very average, was replaced
    after an hour of game).
    5 minutes from the end, Djorkaeff (who should have be on the field
    earlier) equalized on a superb free kick. At the last minute, Dugarry
    found the post...
    
    A very, very frustrating match, as the French played very well (which
    is far to be the usual case). However, Cantona, Roche, Papin, Loko
    among others were missing.
    
    Now on, it will be very difficult to qualify, as the particular goal 
    average is better for the Poles (0-0, 1-1). The French MUST win in
    Romania to qualify...  
    Another tournament where the French could have easily been qualified
    and stupidly dropped...
    
    Disappointed
    PYV
     
    
    
    
       
    

    I watched the game as well - I still feel the same as in 341.7 which
    was nearly a year ago now.....
    Dave WOOD

    	Dave,
    
    	You forced me to re-read .7, but it was worth the reading. I 100%
    agree with you, the same comment can apply this time too.
    Finishing is very bad. A striker is definitely missing...
    
    PYV

    
    Jacquest published the squad for the Azerbaidjan match.
    
    The suprise comes from the non-selection of Ginola, who is still rated
    by Jacquet under Pedros. 
    Djorkaeff is now starting the game.
    
    PYV

    
    Last round results:
    
    France - Azerbaidjan       10:0   (yes)
    
    Poland - Romania            0:0
    
    Slovakia - Israel           1:0
    
    
    Romania has 18 points, with France 2nd with 14 points and Poland three
    with 12.
    However, as the particular goal avarage is favourable to the Poles,
    France must finish 1 point ahead them. The next round will likely 
    determine who's going to be second, with Romania - France and 
    Slovakia - Poland.
    
    By the way, France scored 10 goals versus a very limited team. This too
    easy win does not prove anything. 
    Goals from: Leboeuf: 2
                Dugarry
    		Zidane
                Djorkaeff 
    		Cocard
    		Gu�rin
    		Dessailly
    		Pedros
    
    PYV		
      
    
    
    
    

    
  >  However, as the particular goal avarage is favourable to the Poles,
  >  France must finish 1 point ahead them.
    
    Really?  Do you have the goals for and against for both teams?
    
    Regards,
    Ian
    
    P.S. I thought France played pretty well, even though they were playing
    against a side that couldn't string two passes together.  10 goals
    against ANYBODY is a good result.
    
    Funnily enough my favourite moment was the Azer... corner from which
    Lama made an excellent save.  For those who didn't see it, the corner
    was played along the ground to the outside corner of the penalty area,
    before it got here one of the 'A' players had dummied it by letting the
    ball pass through his legs, a few meters later a second player did the
    same, and then a third before the strike came from about 25 meters out. 
    Some move, which must've been worked on hard in training...
    
    Ian
    

    France's goal difference is currently +16, compared to plus +5 for
    Poland, with France on 14pts and Poland on 12pts - both having played 8
    games.
    
    Gary.
    

Do the 10 goals scxored last night count? I thought it was the case that any
gaols scored against 'smaller' teams would not count towards goal difference.

    Nice surname! Particularly relevent today.

    re -1
    
    Thats a novel approach even by UEFAs standards. What is the point in
    playing a game after the first goal goes in? You may as well win 1 - 0
    as opposed to 10 - 0.
    
    Perhaps the Premiership could adopt it so that goals against the "whipping
    boys" of the division don't count in the final analysis. Mind you, as it 
    looks like Spurs are fulfilling their potential as "whipping boys", I 
    would object to this formula being adopted....
    
    Stuart
    
    Stuart

    That seems a bit unfair if that is the case, after all how do you
    define a 'smaller' team. These minnows have had some good results
    recently, namely Belorussia v Holland, Liechtenstein v Eire and notably
    both Georgia and Moldova beating Wales. IMO the gap between footballing
    nations in Europe is narrowing, and these lesser teams should not so
    readily be discounted - except Azerbaijan of course, they would make a
    pub team look world class.
    
    Gary.
    

>Do the 10 goals scxored last night count?
	Ask the "A's" :-)
	
	Now getting back on earth, what P.Y. hinted at is correct. The overall
	goal-average is going to be pointless to decide from two (or more)
	teams ending with the same number of points (due to the late inclusion
	of so called New_countries very late before the EC group draw).
	
	Lets take an example: both France and Poland finish the group games
	with 18 points, then it would be Poland 2nd and France 3rd based on
	their particular goal average (0-0 in Poland and 1-1 in Paris), it's
	as simple as that...
	
	So as someone already mentioned, France really needs to finish the
	group with 1 more point than Poland if they fancy a chance to qualify
	as one of the best 2nd placed, mind you you'd get a headache if I
	were to try to explain how that comparison for best 2nd placed across
	all groups, some with 6 teams and other(s) with only 5 teams should be
	handled...

								.Andre.

Don't quote me on that (goal difference not counting the 'smaller' teams)
but I'm sur ethat I read about it before the championship started. It's
come to mind after last nights Scotland result. The next game is against San
Marino, in this case the only thing at stake is the points - no goal
difference. This therefore means that for Greece (the other qualifying possibility) has 
to beat Russia by a barrowload to qualify.

If anyone can confirm this then please do.

Paul (*NOT* any relation to Jason - well not that I know about)

    
    As far as I have understood, if 2 teams in the same group have the same
    number of points, the particular goal average counts.
    
    The global goal average counts only (the matches versus the last one 
    of the group excluded) to select the 6 best of the teams which finished
    2 nd of their respective groups.
    
    If you have another understanding, let me know.
    
    PYV  

    
    From the commentators on last nights match, it seems PYV is correct. 
    The group is decided as normal, so France having a superior goal
    difference to Poland means that if France and Poland are level on
    points, France finish second.  Its only AFTER this that the results
    against the weeker teams are discarded to determine which are the 'best'
    second placed teams.  For groups with 5 teams, 1 team is 'discared' for
    groups with 6, 2.
    
    Hope this clears it all up, I'll try an example.
    
    Group A				Group B
    
    Team A	18 points      		Team Z		18 points
    Team B	12 points +7 GD		Team Y		14 points
    Team C	12 points +2 GD		Team X		13 points
    Team D	10 points		Team W		 0 points
    Team E	 6 points		Team V		 0 points
    Team F       6 points
    
    	3 to qualify...
    
    	From Group A - Team A
    	From Group B - Team Z
    
    	Teams B and Y finished second, so discard the results against the
    worst two teams in Group A for team B (lets assume they lost all four
    matches).   And for team Y discard the results against the worst team
    (lets assume they won both matches).
    
    Therefore the comparison between Teams B and Y becomes...
    
    Team B - still 12 points, Team Y - 8 points, therefore the third
    qualifier is Team B.
    
    Obviously the above is not very realistic, and the decision is most
    likely to come down to goal difference...
    
    Ian

    
    Ian,
    
    Thanks to mention I am correct, but I probably failed in my explanation
    tentative. I maintain thet France must finish 1 point ahead Poland, as
    the global goal average would not help. Only the particular Goal
    average is taken at this stage. Therefore, if France and Poland finish
    with the same number of points, Poland will qualify for the second
    stage, which is to select the best 2nd.
    
    PYV
    
     

    
    ER, No! According to the commentators (I say again) the determination
    of 1st and 2nd places (and all the rest for that matter) is as if it
    were a normal league, therefore same points, better goal difference
    means better placing.
    
    Its only AFTER the league placings are determined that the funny rules
    start.
    
    Ian

    
    Ian,
    
    As our Scottish friends say in Group 8, let's pray that you're right !
    
    PYV

    
    But,
    
    If you're right, why hell they mention the particular goal average, as
    there is by definition no particular goal average between 2 teams 
    operating in different groups...
    
    PYV

    France beats Romania 3-1 in Euro-qualifier
    
    
    (c) 1995 Copyright The News and Observer Publishing Co.
    (c) 1995 Reuter Information Service
    
    BUCHAREST (Oct 11, 1995 - 17:24 EDT) - France beat Romania 3-1
    (halftime 2-0) in their
    European soccer championship group one qualifier on Wednesday.
    
    
    
    Any comments from those who have more information ?
    
    Thanks, Thierry

    and slovokia whopped poland 4-1 meaning that france and not poland will
    be going to england next year.
    
    regards
    
    Andrew

    re -1
    
    The Slovakia - Poland game had 2 bizarre sendings off. The first one
    came as a Polish player was walking off the pitch to be substituted
    when the referee decided he wasn't walking fast enough and promptly
    sent him off for time wasting. The second one was at a free kick when
    the Polish player forming the wall didn't seem to retreat 10 metres so
    he got booked. He said something, presumably in Polish, to a Portugese
    referee and got sent off for dissent. 
    
    As for France, the highlights I saw showed that they deserved to win
    and looked to have played very well. They do however seem very nervous
    when their defence is put under pressure
    
    Stuart

    
    
    Goals for France :
    
    Karembeu
    Djorkaef
    Zidane

    Re .-1 3 "super" goals
    
    Especially the one from Zidane.
    He seems to be a great player.
    Does he still play for Bordeaux ?
    Can somebody give more info about him ?

Any thoughts from Dave Wood today? Is is he back to read-only now the French 
have started knocking them in!

g

    Hi Grahame,
    
    Well, I settled down to watch the game last night fully expecting the
    usual drab performance and was stunned into silence by two goals from
    the French in the first half ! The girlfriend came in (French) and
    asked what the score was, "2-0 I said" "Oh we're out then" she said,
    and she couldn't beieve that the score wasn't the other way round 
    when I told her (don't forget the game was in Romania too !)
    
    Things were soon put back in order early in the second half when
    Romania scored to make it 2-1. The crowd went wild etc. etc. and I
    started getting nervous, waiting for the French heads to go down and
    Romania scoring a packet. However, fair play to the wiry bug eaters, 
    Zidane scored the goal of the match and the crowd started leaving 
    with 10 minutes left.
    
    Gobsmacked...
    
    Dave WOOD

    does anyone think it was strange that the two polish players that were
    sent off play in the french league?? and that their sending off
    actually helped the french cause. I have no proof of course but It did
    seem rather coincidental to a sceptic such as myself.
    
    regards
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    I guess France is not definitevely qualified. don't they need to win
    against Israel ?
    
    thanks for the previous report...
    
    Thierry

According to my (Swiss) paper the only teams which have definitely qualified 
are Switzerland and some others.

Oh, all right then, Spain and Russia. Switzerland haven't won the group yet, 
but they've played all of their games and apparently are definitely one of the 
6 best seconds, at least. No other group has been decided, and everything 
depends on the devious calculations after the last games on 11 Nov.

Talking of devious - Andy Wicks, what are you drinking these days?! As if 
there could be anything corrupt about French football.

grahame

    gash,
    
    i'm drinking fullers esb - what about you?
    
    regards
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Hi Andy - yup, drinking large quantities of ESB could explain it! Do the 
Americans actually allow that into the country? And people still drink Bud?

Grahame (from another decent-beer-challenged country)

    
    About Kosecki (playing for Nantes)
    
    He did not do anything particular to be sent off.
    If was on the way to get off the field, and 5 meters before being out,
    he removed his shirt. This surprisingly caused the yellow card and 
    eventually the red.
    
    However, France deserved the win in Romania. They had there the luck
    which escaped the other matches, with numerous sitters and balls on the
    posts. It's the first Romanian defeat in Bucharest for 5 years, and the
    second for 10 years !
    
    France is in the same situation as for the world cup. They "only" have
    to defeat Israel in France to go through.....
    
    PYV 

    GASH,
    
    Fullers ESB, Sam Smiths, Newcastle Brown (That funny stuff from up near
    scotland), Bass and even bloody FelinFoel.
    
    Life is tough!
    
    Regards
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    no surprises here comfortable 2-0 wins for both romania and france
    who both qualify
    
    andrew

    France     2 - 0 Israel
    
    Slovakia   0 - 2 Romania
    
    Azerbaijan 0 - 0 Poland
    
    
    Final Table
    -----------
                 P   W  D  L  F   A   Pts
    Romania      10  6  3  1  18  9   21
    France       10  5  5  0  22  2   20
    Slovakia     10  4  2  4  14  18  14
    Poland       10  3  4  3  14  12  13
    Israel       10  3  3  4  13  13  12
    Azerbaijan   10  0  1  9  2   29  1
    
    
    Gary