Conference trucks::football;1

    
    As a very weekend in Munich has just occured, it's now time that 1860 has
    its own very special note as it is now up with the big boys.
    
    I've waited for this day for nearly 7 years...Bayern v 1860 in the
    Bundesliga....a great prospect....
    
    Dezzz.

    Here is a proud (and tired) supporter of the Munich surprise team TSV
    1860 M�nchen. And apparently I am not the only one (thanks Dezzz ..). 
    In the last game of the season the team showed character and courage
    and beat Meppen 1:0 (in Meppen) while 10.000 supporters turned this
    into a home game. After all, a real happy end. It didn't look good at
    all after those 5 lost games in a row. But what a determination to go
    up!
    
    Too bad for St. Pauli. They were defeated in Wolfsburg 4:1 and I have
    to admit they didn't look very good. Still, I feel sorry that it had to
    be St. Pauli - see you again next year (premier league, of course!).
    Chants for St. Pauli could be heard during the victory party at the
    Munich Marienplatz.
    
    Oh what a day!
    Margit
    

    Congrats from Hamburg, 

    all I can say is that after the last matches of Pauli, 
    1860 deserved the last place of the 1. Bundesliga. 
    Pauli got worse and worse towards the end of the season.

    Nevertheless, I hope that Mr. Weisener (St.Pauli
    President and Sponsor) has enough money to spend for
    another attempt to promotion.

	Gerd_

    
    Yep, have to say that St Pauli was the team I wanted to see along with
    1860 and Bochum go up...even for their loyal supporters...Uerdigen with 
    their paltry 5,000 average will do the Bundesliga no favours.
    
    Question Margit...are 1860 playing all their home games at the
    Grunwalder Stadion or will they play in the Olympia Stadion for the
    'big' ones ???!!!
    
    Dezzz
          

    According to the president Mr. Wildmoser they will play a maximum of 4
    home games at the Olympic stadium. The visiting teams: Bayern M�nchen,
    Kaiserslautern, Dortmund and maybe Stuttgart. All the other home games
    will take place at the Gr�nwalder Stadion. This is a very reasonable
    decision, I think, because the Gr�nwalder Stadion only has room for
    30,000 people. Considering that 1860 had an average of 19,600 during
    the last season (2nd league!!) there wouldn't be any room for the
    supporters of big clubs.
    
    Margit
    

  Congrats to 1860 on their promotion..... I just hope they stay up... To survive
in the top though they need at least 5-6 new players.... There's no way they
would survive with the same outfit....

  Iam not real happy to Bayers 2nd team back in the first division.... But no
worries I tip them to go dowm again.. and I hope this time they will stay down..

                                                     all the best.....

                                                            -dave-

>  Iam not real happy to Bayers 2nd team back in the first division.... But no
>worries I tip them to go dowm again.. and I hope this time they will stay down..
    
    ??? Sorry ???? Didn't understand
    
    Dezzz.
    

 I presume BAYER the Chemical Giant still run Uerdingen???? They used to be
their second team after Leverkusen.... remember????? Didn't Brian Laudrup play
there as well?????? Jasus that lad has been over the place Uerdingen--> Bayern
--->Fiorentina----->Milan... and now Rangers.... what a shame that so much
talent couldn't stay in the one place for more than one season.....


                                                     -dave-

    
    Sorry Dave, I was associating Bayer with bayer'n' thus the confusion...
    
    Dezzz.

    
    Congrats :-(
    
    Err, no really. Congrats !!!!!!! :-)
    
    Congratulations for being the first (and only) ever team to go from 
    Oberliga to Bundesliga within two years. 
    
    It is always great to see teams with a name and a heart play in the
    Bundesliga, because we don't have enough of them (IMHO).
    
    Heiko

    Thanks, Heiko. We haven't stopped celebrating since last saturday!
    
    But seriously, the upcoming season will be very hard for this team. I
    have my doubts that some of them will be able to keep up with the pace.
    So now they will have to buy a few more players, particularly for the
    midfield and defense. I don't think they need another forward (I wonder
    where those rumours about Voeller came from??).
    
    At the same time they have to keep up this fantastic team spirit. A
    challenge for the coach. By the way, Lorant signed his new contract on
    Bavarian TV last night. What a relief!
    
    Margit
    

    Well, well....
    
    	Oktoberfest 1994 begins and 1860 v 'the other team in Munich'.....
    
        just heard on the radio.....
    
    I think they said 1860's opening is at home to Dortmund.....
    
    Dezzz.

    
    Worse that that Margit....its not at home ..its in Dortmund.....
    
    Reflections of Rostock last season....
    
    Opening round August 20th....
    
    Dezzz.

    I saw the schedule in the newspaper this morning. They'll really
    experience reality from the very beginning. First game in the premier
    league: versus Dortmund, in Dortmund. Can you imagine Maurer against
    M�ller (or Chapuisat)?
    
    Margit
    
    
    

    History seems to repeat itself. 1860 started the new season again with
    a 0:4 defeat. This time it was against Borussia Dortmund (in Dortmund).
    The defeat was to be expected though unfortunate because the result
    apparently didn't really reflect the game. I couldn't see it myself
    because it was only shown an pay TV but according to local TV and
    newspapers, the Lions didn't show any respect for the "big stars" and
    fought bravely. They were very unlucky to end up with this score which
    was not deserved.
    
    Tomorrow it's against VFB Stuttgart, another one of the big names. With
    two of their major players injured from saturday's game (including
    goalie Berg) 1860 will need a lot of fighting spirit being the
    technically inferior team.
    
    Not an easy program for a team that marched straight from the amateur
    league into the first professional league.
    
    Will be there tomorrow!
    Margit
    

    
    Well Margit , I saw the game on Premier and 1860 played some nice
    touches and were I've got to say fortunate to be at 0-0 until the 44th
    minute. The first goal was akin to Spain's against Germany and Berg did
    look a bit at sorts. 0-4 was not a true reflection on the game but
    hopefully the only drawback of this result will be goal-difference.
    This was certainly 'Welcome to the Bundesliga 1860'.....hopefully
    they'll get the message tomorrow night.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz.
    
    (the other result in the Olympiastadion didn't make it any easier !!)
    
      

    I saw those goals on "Blickpunkt Sport" last night. You are absolutely
    right about the first one, Berg didn't look too good. He said himself
    that he was to blame. They have to learn a lot, that's for sure and I
    hope they do it fast. Morale is good, though!
    
    Margit
    

    
    Taking about morale....
    In the Kicker yesterday they even said it was a good omen losing on the
    opening day in the same way as last year....
    
    Difference....last year their second game was away to the Stuttgart
    Kickers...
    
    Tonight...Vfb Stuttgart....Mmmm big difference...
    
    Ahhh we'll see what happens...
    
    
    Dezzz.  

    ... seriously: they played great football - until that stupid foul,
    followed by a red card for libero Schmidt. They looked better than
    Stuttgart, but despite many, many chances didn't make that goal. The
    team was shocked after Schmidt was sent off and never recovered.
    Stuttgart took advantage of the confusion and played cooler and
    cleverer - generously helped by an incompetent referee.
    
    Margit
    

    
    
     -< We are getting better - only 0:2! >-
    
    ....but the other team in Munich aren't !!!!
    
    Dezzz.

    
    I read in the local rag that The Kaiser has described TSV 1860 as
    'not good enough for the Bundesleague'  - I'll laugh my socks off if
    they beat Bayern Munich  :^)
    
    Al.

    ... Bayer Uerdingen vs. TSV 1860 Muenchen: 1:1.

    
    Just as the number of this note....tonight live on SAT-1 (for those
    who cannot get a ticket or prefer to leave the Oktoberfest for an
    evening) is the 180th Munich Derby between 1860 and Bayern.....
    
    Anyone with Astra or Cable should be able to get this channel....
    
    Dezzz.

    1860 - Bayern   1 : 3
    
    1860 was the better team till Nerlinger was sent off the field.
    With 10 players Bayern got stronger and won this game by the 
    lack of experience in the 1860-team especially in the defense.
    The red card for Schwabl was to hard because he wasn't the last
    man in line.
    
    chris

    
    I thought all 3 sendings off looked a bit harsh. 1860 only looked good
    for about ten minutes (around the time they had the goal disallowed).
    Bayern looked like they knew they'd win (cocky), and didn't put much effort
    into it. 
    
    Al. 

I have seen this match, too. I think, 1860 had made more in this game,
but the forwards Winkler and our Austrian Pacult are not in th form of
the 2nd division last year - or the defending in the 1st division is
not the same in the 2nd.

It was sad to see, how Bayern Munich is playing today.

The result is to high, I think, 1:1 should be more righteous - but
only shooting goals is important.

To the referee: The German Krug has not been one of the better referees in USA,
he was not the best in this match.(Red cards for Schwabl and the Bayern !)

Heribert

    Did Papin play? Is he fit?
    
    /JF

    I thought this is worth mentioning: TSV 1860 M�nchen handed the red
    lantern to MSV Duisburg. A memorable weekend!
    
    Margit
    
    
    

    He is famous now for being a "Bench-lover"!
    
    "Why, but oh why?" - Papin quote.
    
    /JF

Winterbreak in the German Bundesliga and I am happy that the 
"Lions" managed to work their way up from number 18 to 15 
which is the first "safe" place in the table. They weren't 
always brilliant, but very determined to make a go of it 
(which amounted to a considerable yellow-red assembly).

Due to their lack of cleverness they made every mistake 
possible and whatever they had to learn they did it the hard 
way. But in their last game before winter break they beat 
Eintracht Frankfurt deservedly 2:1. They not only showed 
plenty of fighting spirit, but an immensely improved 
midfield proved they can play good football after all. 

The next game is home on Feb. 18th against Borussia 
Dortmund. And I hope it's not 0:4 again!

Margit

    
    Yes Margit, it was Mission 1 accomplished. Ok only a couple of wins
    in the first half of the season but considering this time 2 years ago
    they were in the Bayernliga things must be put into perspective. 
    A sell-out out crowd of 28,500 also puts them in the top half-dozen of
    well supported clubs in Germany again not a bad accomplishment; this
    whilst Bayern Muenchen are the best supported club (why don't ask me !)
    
    If they can build on the fact that they CAN beat these 'big' clubs then
    they will be where they were not so long ago i.e. at the top of the
    Bundesliga...but I think we'll have to wait a little, gently does it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz.
    

Eigentum von:       Thomas Haesters @UFC
Schriftst�cknummer: 005055

d i g i t a l
                  I N T E R N E   M I T T E I L U N G

                                   Versendet:    
                                   Von:          Gaugler, Guenther      
                                                 Guenther Gaugler@4=P2@4=MCH4@5=SIEMENS@3=SCN@2=DBP@1=DE@MRX_HADRES@GYMRC@RTO 
                                   Abt:          SIEMENS
                                   Tel:           

AN:  Thomas Haesters @UFC                 ( THOMAS HAESTERS@UFC )


Betr.: notes                                                        


 - 57, 58, 59 ..... 60 -

Hi there football fans

I'm not sure if some of you still remember me
but I used to be an active member of this conference
about three years ago. And I still have great souvenirs
of the conference and its members.
When I last contributed to the conference my team was in
Germany's third division - but got promoted twice (in two years)
and now joins the Bundesliga (I've heard you get best information
on that). This first half of the season, we had - of course - some 
difficulties but with our last game before the winter interruption
got away from a relegation place (hope this holds on up to the end).

However, I really miss the conference and the opportunity to exchange
opinions on football worldwide and with supporters of many
different clubs.
I hope you and your sides had an exciting and successful year.
Best wishes for 1995!
And whenever you are in Munich join the Lions roar -
best atmosphere in town!

Servus,

Gunter Gaugler

PS. Three years ago it seemed that you didn't like Klinsmann that much.
Is it possible that something has changed?

    What an incredible result: 1860 beats Moenchengladbach 2:0. And it was
    well deserved. They not only outran the other team, they simply
    outplayed them. Heiko Herrlich didn't have half a chance thanks to
    defender Alex Kutschera. Best player on the field: Peter Nowak. The
    Polish midfielder turned out to be 1860's best buy of the season. 
    
    Now it's MSV Duisburg next friday, the last "basement competition" for
    the Lions in this season. Winning this match would surely put them on
    the safe side of the table.
    
    Margit
    

    
    Yes Margit a great result....Kutschera and Nowak got into the 'Elf des
    Tages'....a win next weekend is a must. Maybe then with the pressure off
    them they can really start to play. I suppose realistically speaking
    though 'Gladbach were without what you might consider 3 of their
    strongest/influential players Effenberg, Dahlin and Klinkert. Still you
    need to make most of the breaks that are given.
    
    Next season .....UEFA Druck....
     
    Dezzz. 
     

Noticed in the Observer in a feature on West Ham that the ECWC in 1965
was against TSV Munchen 1860.  Looks like the fortunes of the 2 teams are
fairly closely matched!

Great result, Margit - I'm looking forward to the celebration game in 2 weeks!

grahame

    Hello Grahame,
    
    you probably know already that we bought a ticket for you for the match
    1860:HSV. Of course, we hope for a big celebration. But if they manage
    to keep up this morale (and the fighting spirit), I am not worried.
    
    So start practicing: Sechzig - Sechzig - Sechzig - Sechzig.
    See you!
    Margit
    

    2:0 against Leverkusen in Leverkusen. Who would have thought that this
    team could beat Bayer's All star team. A great result which puts the
    lions into a (almost safe) spot on the table.
    
    Margit
    
    

Great result from friday: TSV 1860 Munich / 1. FC Cologne 
2:1. After Schwabl's "foul" in minute 15, the Lions played 
with only 10 but showed that they were the more determined 
team. So it was 2:0 after the first 45 minutes, Cologne's 
Labbadia scored 8 minutes before the end of the match. 

This very important win puts them ultimately on the safe 
side of the table. The Lions will be "first class" next 
season as well. In this moment one man shouldn't be 
forgotten. Even though he didn't play very often this 
season, we have to thank Peter Pacult, the Austrian 
goalgetter whose spirit and commitment got the team into the 
Bundesliga in the first place. 

Margit

Great news, Margit. Let's hope they win the other battle as well - when is 
there any news about the ground change?

Now, how does it go - SEXIG ?!!

grahame

    You are doing very well, Grahame. SEXIG is OK for every English
    speaking person.
    
    I am afraid there isn't much we can do about the move. The president
    has threatened to resign, if the delegates don't follow his decision to
    move to the Olympic stadium. And coach Lorant strongly supports his
    buddy.
    
    The fans hate it. There was a demonstration around the old "Gruenwalder
    Stadion" last saturday where the fans insisted they want to stay in
    their old "home" and not move to the "FC Bayern playground". But it
    won't change anything and therefore the Lions will have only away
    games next season.
    
    Margit
    

Margit,

Thank You for thinking of Peter Pacult. He has been a good forward in the
last ten years. In Austrian press You often can read from Andreas Herzog
and Toni Polster, but Peter Pacult's performance has been good for 
Austrias football, too.

1860 has more fans than Bayern Munich in Austria, I like the M�nchner L�wen.

Heribert

Hi Margit,

Hmm, familiar story. What usually hapens next is that some fans talk about 
boycotting the games, others say you have to support the team, and the 
management wins. Terrible. (Though at least you'll be closer to the ground! 
But will you go??)

(For people in England, a similar story would be that lovable Ron Noades 
decided that he couldn't afford / couldn't be bothered / didn't want to 
upgrade San Selhurst, so he opted to ground-share with Arsenal instead). Or 
possibly Sunderland moving to Newcastle!

grahame

    Last night 2/3 of the delegates voted for the move to the Olympic
    Stadium, which means that in the next season TSV 1860 Muenchen will
    play on Bayern ground. This is sad because there are indications that
    the old stadium at the Gruenwalder Str. will be torn down. 
    
    The fans will not boycot the new arena but less season ticket will be
    sold. There is no need to worry about tickets anymore because the lions
    draw an average crowd of 30,000, the Olympic stadium offers room for
    64,000.
    
    Margit
     

Schade. Still, at least maybe I won't get soaked next time I see them!

g

    > re: .48
    
    That's true!
    
    By the way, the last match in the old stadium will be 1860 vs. Westham
    United on July 29, 1995. This is to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the
    legendary cup final.
    
    Margit
    

End of season and Number 14 for the "Lions". Considering 
no-one gave them half a chance, they indeed did very well. 
So next season it's first class football again for 1860.

Some of the players will leave or already left the team. 
Strogies (maybe to Unterhaching), Stoerzenhofecker (maybe 
to Nuremburg), Kneissl (assistant coach). Last but not 
least, Pacult who according to today's newspaper may sign 
for Austria Wien. Can you confirm, Heribert?

New players are Heldt (1. FC Koeln), Greilich (Mainz 05), 
Jeremies (Dynamo Dresden) and on loan Marek Lesniak 
(Wattenscheid). Rumour has it that they made an offer to 
Sammy Sane (FC Tirol).

So, for the next 2 months it's half a dozen friendlies to 
see the new ones. Start of season 95/96 on August 12, 
DFB schedule next weekend.

Margit

Margit,

Austrian newspapers have written the same , Peter Pacult will sign a contract
for Austria Wien, but today he has not signed any contract.

Sammy Sane has a contract for Tirol, I don't believe he will change from
Tirol to 1860 (as Schwabl did).

Heribert

    ....and what an opener Margit....away to St Pauli....
    
    
    Dezzz.

Margit,

Yesterday Peter Pacult has signed the contract for Austria Wien. He only will
earn any money, if he really plays in the team. 

Heribert

    Aaah .. football is open again. Couldn't access all day. 
    
    Heribert,
    
    I saw it on Austrian Videotext. It's probably a fair deal for Peter
    because he wanted to concentrate on his restaurant and play some
    football on the side. That's what he said in Munich anyway. On our next
    trip to Vienna we must stop in his restaurant. Do you know where it is?
    
    *****
    
    Fantastic, the first match in Hamburg against St. Pauli. I already
    booked my train ride. Tickets for the game are not on sale, yet. We'll
    probably have to wait for another 2 weeks. I remember the last time 60
    played St. Pauli. The party alone was worth the trip! It took place on
    the Reeperbahn and lasted all night.
    

Margit,

It isn't really a restaurant. Pacult has a canteen at a sport-place of a
little football-club. It is located in the 21th district of Vienna, and
called Columbia-Place.

If You will be in Vienna, I'll show You the place, if You want.

Heribert

Last saturday's friendly between 1860 and West Ham United 
ended 4:3. Not a spectacular but a very entertaining match. 
250 West Ham supporters actually traveled to Munich to see 
their team. It was a cheerful crowd that outsang the Munich 
supporters (6.000) easily. Guests of honour were the team 
of '65.

The Lions will start into the Bundesliga on August 12, in 
Hamburg playing against St. Pauli. A good occasion to 
celebrate the fan friendship between both clubs. The bad 
news is that the demand for tickets is about 4 times the 
number of tickets sent from Hamburg to Munich.

Margit

    Heribert,
    
    we had a little discussion yesterday about Peter Pacult's age. I am
    quite sure that he turns 37 this October. Maybe you can help.
    
    Margit
    PS. Yesterday's friendly between 1860 and PAOK Saloniki 2:1.
    

Margit,

Peter Pacult's birthday:   28.10.1959


Wish You a nice day,

Heribert

1860 Munich is interested to buy the Austrian forward Harald Cerny from
FC Tirol.

Cerny has played one season for Bayern Munich. 
He is a hope for the future in Austria.

Heribert

    
    Well, 4 wins in a row takes 1860 up to 7th position in the Bundesliga
    and next week is the big one ...Bayern...who seemed to have turned the
    corner with a 6-1 away victory last night.
    
    Prediction...mmmm....too close to call 1-1.
    
    Dezzz.

Well, I saw it last night, but didn't understand it. What's going on with the 
Scientology sect?

grahame

1860 - Bayern   2:4 (1:4) has been a curiously game.

4:0 in the first twenty minutes (2nd goal offside)

2 red cards (Kahn (goalkeeper/Bayern) and Boden (1860) at the end of the
1st halftime - there has been no reason for red cards (my opinion).

The two Austrians (1860/Cerny, Bayern/Herzog) have not been standing
in the centre of the match.

BTW,Nothing heard from Margit in this conference for a long time !!

Heribert