Conference tmagno::antique_collectible

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     Got a big military collectables show this weekend. Any tips on what to
    look for,or what to stay away from? Whats hot and whats not,in WWII
    German collectables.
     Seen anything good lately? I know the collecting bug still nibbles on
    you occasionally.
    
     Joe
    

Good morning! Where the show? 

I will be in Maine with my wife this weekend just relaxing.

I haven't bumped into anything interesting lately, but it 
is almost time for trip to my friend the dealer's house for
a fix. I think I had mentioned that he was going to pick up
a couple of P38s and would hold them until I saw them. 

He hasn't called so I guess I'll take the initiative. 

As you know, the hot stuff is the stuff you always want! :-)

Good hunting and be sure to give us a review of the show
and anything you pick up.

Chip

    
     Hi Chip,
    
     The Maine thing sounds good,warm fireplaces,and fresh lobster.
    
     The show is coupled with one of the larger gun shows in the Atlanta
    area. The gun show happens about two to three times a year,and is
    heavily advertised. So what is walking between the tables is almost
    as interesting as what is on the tables. John Q Public,wanting to get
    rid of grandpa's WWI and WWII stuff,but did not know where to take it.
    I plan on taking a fairly clear credit card,and a couple of hundred in
    cash. I always watch people walking in and out,to make offers on what
    thier carrying,sometimes they laugh,sometimes I get the goods for next
    to nothing.
     Also need to stock up on 44-40 for my old Winchester 92 and a Colt New
    Service in the same caliber.
    
     Joe
    

    
     Hi Chip,
    
     Well I did not add a thing to my collection. I did find a trigger/bolt
    spring for a Colt Mod.P clone.
     One of the vendors,was international,and knew Chris Ailsby. Very
    inpressive display of Badges,and insignia. The prices were just out of
    sight. I did see some stuff I had only seen in books. Gorgets,some
    complete uniforms,but just bags and bags of over priced stuff. Well
    back to haunting antique stores and flea markets. 
     I did pick up a good reference book by Ron Manion. German Military
    Collectables price guide,not only the badges and medals,but also
    household items,of 30s and 40s Germany,which were military related.
    There is an extensive listing for "tinnies".
    
     Joe
    

Manion is one of the more well respected resources.
It should be a good reference.

Chip

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     I figured out what that Gilt Eagle was. Remember the one I picked up
    some time ago,and thought it was a cap eagle? I thought it was looking
    in the wrong direction. The Army and others look to the right,this one
    is looking to the left,and is almost stubby looking,very thick. I was
    reading Soldat,the book Siegfried Knappe wrote,and it came to me. I
    looked in a reference book and I there it was. It was a metal device
    worn on the shoulder boards,of a political officer. Thier Eagles looked
    to the left, the others,in the reference book look to the right. To
    bad it's not still attached to the shoulder board.
     Through my reading,I now understand,how much the Nazi Party was hated,
    inside Germany,and especially the Army. The Army wasn't even able to
    vote in elections,and were non-political,in training and tradition.
    There was a great deal on mistrust,on both sides,and it was exteemly
    rare to find a party member,in the Army. Except perhaps the spies,which
    were everywhere. Some in political officer uniform,some in the ranks.
    
    Joe
    

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     Of your first-hand knowledge,what would be a fair price for the
    following.
    
      115. Nazi - Luftwaffe 1st Model Dagger with metal scabbard; leather
    is wearing off scabbard, blade has some wear, AVG.
    
      116. Nazi - Luftwaffe 2nd Model Dagger with leather sheath(not the
    original), celluloid around handle is cracked, AVG.
    
    
     I don't think they have been properly identified,as 1st and 2nd model.
    
    Joe
    

    Hi Joe... Been hunting, eh? :-)
    
    On the first model Luft...By you description it appears to have a
    rating of poor condition. You didn't mention whether the chain hanger
    is still with it. Also, 2nd mod.'s came in two varieties 1) nickel
    silver fittings 2) aluminum fittings. I'll assume they both have their
    hangers. If it's an early 1st mod. I wouldn't go more than $130 - $150.
    If it's a later 1st mod. deduct $20 - $30. They really aren't that
    collectible in poor condition. Plus, there are a ton of them out
    there.
    
    On the 2nd model, the same applies as to finishes, however the
    differences were dictwed more by makers than by year of manufacture
    (unless we're talking late 1945 where they were just butt ugly and
    cheap.
    
    It's value as a collectible is nill. Even as a "parts" dagger some are
    missing (scabbard) or damaged (handle). Again, these are very prolific.
    My advice would be to pass, but if you do wish to buy it, $75 tops.
    
    Chip 
    

    
     Thanks Chip,
    
     This is on an Antique and Coin dealers,auction board,and a really low
    balled them both. I know you are not into awards and decorations,but
    they had more of those and they are the things I'm really after.
    
      M-17 German Imperial medal/cross - Saxon Albrechts Order, 1st
    class, Knight, white enameled cross with crossed swords, obverse of
    medal in center - "Albertus Animosus" with bust of man facing
    right, other side of cross has medal in center with "1850" & shield &
    crown in center, 1 �" x 1 �", EXCELLENT
    
    
     If this is what I think it is,if I get it for $80.00,would be a very
    good buy.
    
     Joe
    

    Tell me more about the Imperial Cross, e.g. is it strictly an
    Imperial award or did the Reich continue its award? I've seen
    some of these so I know what you're talking about.
    
    I don't know if you caught it yesterday, but the Discovery Channel
    featured a 3-part episode (back-to-back-to-back) called U Boat War.
    Outstanding! Great perspectives from Americans, British and German
    U Boat commanders. Many of the Knights Cross winners. Some great
    footage of Hitler awarding the Knights Cross, Oak Leaf awards and
    brilliants awards.
    
    In one interview with a U Boat commander his tunic was directly behind
    him laden with the Knights Cross, Iron Cross 1st Class, Submarine
    badge, etc... Very cool!
    
    Chip

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     I missed the show you mentioned,wish I had recorded it. I have started
    to build a small,but select library of original combat footage,and
    newsreel style footage,of military units,for research material. I'll
    watch it and make notes then make the Video container,with a number for
    identification. I recently saw a documentary,about the Eastern Front
    and a particularly nasty armour engagement,between an SS Panzer unit
    and a Russian Armour Unit. That war cost the world some very brave
    men,on all sides.
    
     As far as I know the Saxon Albert Order of the Knights Cross with
    Swords,was an Imperial award,but weren't these awards,worn in
    conjunction with Third Reich awards. Since this award is considered
    a House Order,would it be precluded?
    
     Joe
    

    Yes, they would have been worn as would any foreign awards a 
    recipient may have won. Howeve, they would be relegated under
    any "period" awards/badges worn by specific regulation.
    
    Too bad you missed the show. 
    
    Chip

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     Got a line on a Kriegsmarine wristwatch. It is marked "KM" and was
    made by Siegerin,also known as Alpina. Now all I have to do is find one
    marked "RLM" for the Luftwaffe,and one marked "DH" for Deutsches Heer
    or also know as Wehrmacht.
    
     Collecting,is quite habit forming.
    
     Joe

    Cool! I've never seen a Luft or Heer watch, but have seen wrist
    compasses.
    
    I have no clue what these things are going for. They can't be a very
    prolific item otherwise (knowing GIs) those things would have been a
    big favorite in the souvenier department (watches).
    
    Remember the story of the GI who brought back one of Hitler's wrist
    watches. Upon his return from Germany he rode the train back to New
    York City (his home). He jumped off the train and headed to the men's 
    room. He took the watch off his wrist to wash his hands and left it on
    the sink. After only a few minutes he realized what he had done and
    went right back to restroom. Watch gone! Quite a nice watch from the
    description, gold, day and date.
    
    Chip

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     That is a great story,about Hitler's watch. It increases my hope,that
    there are still neat things to be discovered.
    
     The Luftwaffe timepieces were marked two ways,RLM
    (Riechs-Luftahrt-Ministerium) or just FL 22XXX,FL 23XXX,or FL 25XXX.
    
     FL = Flight
    
     22xxx = Flight Control
     23XXX = Navigation
     25XXX = Radio Surveillance
    
     Most will have a black dial with luminous arabic numerals,and hands.
    This is the same standard the Heer had for Timepieces,but the navy was
    different. It had white dials,usually,with the luminous arabic
    numerals,and just have the dial marked K.M. with the source company
    name.
    
    
    
    
     Joe
     
    

    Navy marked stuff is neat. Paticularly weaponry and other items because
    the quantities produced weren't not along the lines for the other
    branches. Even extremely prolific items such as bayonets and their
    frogs, pistols (wicked neat), infantry accoutrements, e.g. ammo
    pouches, belts, helmets, etc. all command a little higher price and are
    more desirable.
    
    Chip