Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Caesar adsum iam forte
    Brutus ad errat
    Caesar sic in omnibus
    Brutus sic inat

    Incidentally they don't actually make sense, not in Latin anyway!
    
    Nick

I'm probably repeating this, but I'm too lazy too look.

This makes no sense in Latin, but read it aloud and you'll understand:

Si villi, siemgo,
Fortibus esinero.
Nobili, demis trux;
Sivatis inem?  Causandux.

Dave C.

    Indeed, Caesar adsum iam forte makes no sense at all.  Nor do the 3rd
    and 4th lines. But if you say `Brutus aderat' it makes a kind of sense:
    assuming that the 1st line says something intelligible about Caesar,
    it would make sense to say `Brutus was present'. That's the way I
    remember it.
    
    b

    G'day,
    
     I was told the first line was
    
    Caesar ad sum Jam forte         and meant something about Ceasar having
    a strong something or other.
    
    but maybe iam is pronounced yam?
    
    
    derek

    >Incidentally they don't actually make sense, not in Latin anyway!
    >
    >Nick
    
    That's 'cause it's not Latin -- it's English -- read it aloud,
    as was already suggested.
    
    					andrew

    Sorry Andrew I knew they didn't make sense and were phonic English.  If
    you'd known that I'd learnt (sorry, been taught!) Latin for four years
    you might have guessed that I realised what it was.
    
    Nick

    I only had two years of Latin, so, when I first saw them, it wasn't
    immeditately apparent to me that they were bogus.
    
    If only something like this could be constructed in correct Latin --
    now *that* would be an accomplishment!
    
    					andrew
    

This reminds me of a book I saw in college called Morder Gus Rheims which was
a book of nursery rhymes transliterated into German.  Similar idea.  There may
also be one in French.

    The French one is Mots d'Heure something. We used to sell a few
    copies when I worked in a mod. langs bookshop. The only rhyme I 
    remember is:
    
    Nid de beau dit
    Qui sait beau dit
    Comment trou le raille.
    
    b

    G'day,
    
     As I recall, was there not one that went..
    
    Un petit d'un petit
    S'at-on en walle,
    Un petit d'un petit
    At-on grate falle
    ....
    
    
    or somesuch?
    
    derek
    

    	Most common nursery rhymes are there. I don't have the book
    myself, but I am fairly sure it was "�a �tonne Les Halles" with the
    explanation that people at the main Parisian produce market were very
    surprised at the incident. The rest of the explanation goes into child
    marriages in the middle ages (the time the poem was supposedly
    written).
    
    	I have seen the book on a bookshelf of Jim Wade, and he sometimes
    contributes here.

>>    	I have seen the book on a bookshelf of Jim Wade, and he sometimes
>>      contributes here.

		This is a hint?  To ... to find the book, 
		right?  And ... hold on ... to confirm 
		your memory, David?  Perhaps even to quote
		a few quotes [quotate a few quotations?]

		Oh, OK.  I'll try to find it this weekend.

		rgds  Jim

		PS but first a rathole - see next note.

		Rathole: in .13 I wrote "I'll try to find it ...".
		I am told that this is correct - as opposed to 
		"I'll try *and* find it ...".

		However the latter form, as well as being in 
		common usage, was used by the Queen [British]
		in her Christmas speech.  [It's the only part 
		of the speech I remember].  

		Therefore, for Brits at least, "try and" is now, 
		presumably correct, being demonstrably Queen's 
		English.  Right?

		rgds  Jim

	Ref .11/.12

	From the book  "Mots d'heures: gousses, rames" ...

		Un petit d'un petit
		S'�tonne aux Halles  	<----- [not bad, Monahan!]
		Un petit d'un petit
		Ah! degr�s te fallent
		Indolent qui ne sort cesse
		Indolent qui ne se m�ne
		Qu'importe un petit d'un petit
		Tout Gai du Reguennes.

	Explications sur demande!  ;-)

		In the same vein, a discerning Anglophone can
		derive great amusement by getting a Francophone 
		to say:

			`Pas de lieu Rh�ne qu'� nous!'

		:=)

                         electronic data processing
    
    Alternative versions welcomed, the shorter the better...  For possible
    use in a Notes P_N.  My Latin's too rusty to essay anything more than
    
                  (-: Datorum Electronicii Processandum :-)
    
    And now that I think on't, "Electron" probably comes from a Greek
    root...  Am I lost?
    
    Thanks, Dan
                       

    I'm not sure about whether ELECTRONICIUS means anything; if it does,
    it should agree with something - either the noun (DATA sure comes from
    Latin, but that doesn't mean it meant the same in Latin) or the
    gerund (PROCESSANDUM _sounds_ OK, but I'm not sure about that either).
    What you make `electronic' agree with depends on whether you're
    talking about `electronic data' (-ORUM) or `electronic processing'
    (-UM).
    
    Incidentally, rather than ELECTRONICIUS I'd've expected something
    ending in plain -US. In fact, `electronically' - if derived from
    an adjective ending -US, would end in -E. -IUS words (though
    there may be a few nouns and adjectives that _do_ end that way)
    are usually adverbs derived from a third declension adjective
    (so there).
    
    I'm sure Liddel & Scott (authoritative dictionary) would help: it's
    got `Latin' words for everything under the sun, and is used today
    by Vatican translators who have to talk about things like computers
    and helicopters. But I'm not impressed by dictionaries that come
    up with new words in a dead language that are supposed to `mean'
    something (e.g. electricity) that wasn't discovered until
    relatively recently.
    
    So (The Bottom Line) if I wanted to use a latinate PN I'd get the
    syntax right and not care too much about roots. That, or lift
    a real quotation (which, for reasons of anachronicity, is impossible
    here).
    
    b
    

    I wouldn't want to use DATORVM, because when spoken that sounds an
    awful lot like DAT AVRVM "He gives gold."  It can be parsed in context,
    but why make headaches?
    
    If you don't buy ELECTRONICVS, how about PER ORDINATOREM?  ORDINATOR
    is a very good word for "computer," coming as it does by devolution
    from the modern French ordinateur.  It also happens to be in current
    use among Latin speakers.
    
    Howzabout COMPVTANDVM PER ORDINATOREM INFORMATIONIS, meaning "computing
    of information (data) by computer"?  This phrase can be declined quite
    reasonably in the neuter second declension; also, it would almost
    certainly in speech be shortened to COMPVTAMDVM, which happens still to
    make some sense.
    
    For a verb form, it seems reasonable to return the gerund to a verb and
    the adjective to an adverb, thus: INFORMATIONEM COMPVTARE PER
    ORDINATOREM "to compute data electronically."
    
    (The alternative is COMPVTANDVM PER ORDINATOREM INFORMATIONIS AGERE,
    which I find rather less aesthetic.)
    
    -dick

    As for "Caesar adsum jam forte," this sentence does actually scan in
    colloquial Latin.  Remenber the i/j thing, and see it in Classical
    form:
    
    CAESAR ADSVM IAM FORTE.
    
    In colloquial usage, IAM can mean now.
    
    CAESAR should be the vocative CAESARE, but vocative is never used at
    the beginning of a sentence except in emphasis.
    
    FORTE is an adverb meaning strongly; although VERE would be better in
    context, the sentence can be translated roughly as "Casear, I'm right
    with you."
    
    -dick

    From the current Sharper Image catalog, p. 29 in the huckstering of the
    Sharper Image Relaxation (S.I.R.) system:
    
    "FORBES FYI called the technology in S.I.R. "multum in parvo" ("best
    in its class")."
    

    OUCH!

        More Latin abuse?  This is from an email .signature.

        	"Posto ergo disclaemo" -- "I post, therefore, I disclaim"

        Dan