Conference thebay::joyoflex

.0�< Note 511.0 by VIA::RANDALL "I feel a novel coming on" >
.0�                                -< Walpurgis? >-
.0�
.0�    All right, I'll bite . . . 
.0�    
.0�    Ian, what is Walpurgis night, why should we remember it, and what
.0�    should we do with it while we are remembering it?  

    Gosh, I thought you'd never ask. 8^) 8^) 8^)
    
    Walpurgis night is the eve of the first of May when witches, according
    to German popular superstition, rode on broomsticks and he-goats
    to hold revel with their master the devil (especially on the Brocken
    in the Harz Mountains). It is so called because May 1st is the day
    of Saint Walpurga, abbess of Heidenheim, who died about 778. It
    is pronounced 'Valpoorgis'.
    
    I just happened across this one evening as I was browsing through
    my Chambers 20th Century Dictionary (which does list 'priapism'
    incidentally), and I thought I had better alert the world before
    it was too late. ;^}

.0�    Is this an excuse to party?
    
    You need an excuse to hold a party??? Well, it does fall on a Saturday
    this year...
    
    
    Ian.
    

    Thanks, that's interesting.  I didn't realize Walpurgis was
    derived from someone's name. 
    
    It sounds like the kind of activity one would perform after
    excess imbibing and riding of he-goats.  No, wait, that sentence
    says they were drinking the goats.  But I suppose I'd need
    some walpurgating after drinking he-goats, too . . .
        
    --bonnie

    p.s. No, I don't need an excuse to party, but if I've got a good
    excuse handy, I don't mind using it! 

    Re .2 (Bonnie):
    
>                           -< will a he-cat do? >-
 
    Well, in some traditions, Hecat[e] was patroness of witches. :-)
    
    There is an excellent portrayal of a Walpurgisnacht celebration
    in the Walt Disney Film, _Fantasia_: the "Night on Bald Mountain"
    sequence.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    We live next door to a cemetery - but the inhabitants appear to
    be peaceful and we haven't had any trouble from witches round here
    (Padworth Common - about a quarter of a mile from AWEA - formerly
    known as AWRE (Aldermaston)). The only witches I can recall in the
    area lived in Tilehurst.

    Re .4 (Richard):
    
    This probably belongs in another Conference, but Walpurgis Night
    is called so only for Satanic witches.  Other kind of witches (such
    as pagan Saxon ones) don't celebrate the night under that name,
    nor in cemeteries.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    The northern countries of Europe celebrate this night as 'Valborg's
    Mass' (Valborgsm�ssoafton). If you are interested in the details
    of Swedish and Finnish traditions, see Note 90 in the TLE::SCANDIA
    conference.

     (1) When's Beltane, which I would have stuck in the favourite words note 
(496), but unfortunately couldn't remember the date of?

     (2) How should my goatly relationships be conducted then, compared to
Walpurgisnacht?

     (3) Why has the phrase 'antic hay' suddenly floated into my mind?
Huxley?   Marlowe?

    Re .7:
    
    (a) Beltane's also the 30th of April (May Eve).
    
    (b) I don't know the aspects of your goatly ways [and would be just
    as happy to keep things that way :-)] to answer that querstion.
    
    (c) "What the Hell do you think I am?  Some kind of fortune-teller?"
    Peter Lorre to Vincent Price in _The Raven_.  Couldn't have said
    it better myself. :-D
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re .5: I do know the difference between "white" and "black" magic
    - in fact I spent 11 years investigating these things - with a view
    to writing a book. Unfortunately, I could not discover any repeatable
    phenomena. Oh well, Walpurgis Nacht passed peacefully :-)

One of the most tranquil night's sleep I've ever had was in the churchyard
at Borley Rectory, reputedly 'the Most Haunted Place in England'.   One hoped
for more.

    I've read all (I think - 4?) books on the haunting of Borley Rectory
    (in Essex, England) - I've also visited it - seemed rather gloomy.
    Unfortunately, although there is a lot of documented evidence about
    hauntings, spreading over a 100 years or so, much of the evidence
    would appear to have been marred by the "investigations" of Harry
    Price. Price was caught out faking "phenomena" - he was a gifted
    amateur magician. He employed (if I recall correctly) 96 people
    in an investigation, but the text of their briefing was seriously
    flawed in that it suggested the sort of "phenomena" that they would
    be expected to observe.
    
    I don't think I'd care to sleep in a churchyard - not even the one
    next door - too many strange things about such as bats, cats (other
    than ours) and "things that go bump in the night".

    Re .10:
    
    "To sleep, perchance to dream"?   Also, there's likely to be a
    story there.  Care to share it?                  
    
    Re .11 (Richard):
    
    >I don't think I'd care to sleep in a churchyard - not even the one
    >next door - too many strange things about such as bats, cats (other
    >than ours) and "things that go bump in the night".
     
    Not to mention the morning dew and inquisitive groundskeepers.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    

    re: spending the night in a cemetery:
    
    The main thing going thump in the night in the cemetery near our
    house is teenage couples looking for a place where their parents
    won't interrupt. 
    
    re: Beltane 
    
    I've heard of Beltane, but what's the origin of the word? Is it
    someone's name as well? 
    
    --bonnie

    Re .13 b(Bonnie):
    
    > ... teenage couples ...
    
    I almost entered something similar, but resisted temptation.
    
    >I've heard of Beltane, but what's the origin of the word?
    
    The Scottish Gaelic "bealltainn," for the First of May in the old
    Scottish calendar.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

.14�< Note 511.14 by ERASER::KALLIS "loose ships slip slips." >
.14�       -< 'Twas the night before Mayday, and all through the glenn ... >-
.14�
.14�    The Scottish Gaelic "bealltainn," for the First of May in the old
.14�    Scottish calendar.

    Steve, you are almost right there. Beltane is an ancient Celtic
    festival held in the beginning of May, when bonfires were lit on
    hilltops. It is one of the four quarter-days of Scotland, the others
    being Lammas, Hallowmas and Candlemas. The Gaelic 'bealltainn'
    translates as 'bright fire'.
    
    As for the other quarter-days (before anyone asks ;^) )...
    
    Lammas  :	The season of first fruits on the 1st of August, from
    		the Old English meaning 'loaf feast'.
    
    Hallowmas :	The feast of All Hallows or All Saints on the 1st of
    		November. Again Old English, meaning 'saints feast'.
    
    Candlemas : The Roman Catholic festival of the purification of the
    		Virgin Mary, on the 2nd of February, when candles are
    		blessed. A simple combination of 'candle' and 'mass'.
    
    
    Ian.

    At risk of stating the obvious, I'll just observe that Hallowmas
    (or All Saints' Day, as we know it south of Hadrian's Wall) is
    immediately preceded (on 31 Oct) by Hallowe'en.
    
    b

    I note with some interest that two of the feasts are totally
    Christian, Lammas appears to be a blend (the name includes
    "mass"), and Beltane is totally pagan.
    
    What were the other feasts before they became Christianized?
    
    --bonnie 

Re:.13 
    
>    The main thing going thump in the night in the cemetery near our
>    house is teenage couples looking for a place where their parents
>    won't interrupt. 

I think you left out the apostrophe in t'hump.

					>>>==>PStJTT

.17�< Note 511.17 by VIA::RANDALL "I feel a novel coming on" >
.17�                           -< hm. and before that? >-
.17�
.17�    I note with some interest that two of the feasts are totally
.17�    Christian, Lammas appears to be a blend (the name includes
.17�    "mass"), and Beltane is totally pagan.
         ^^^^
    
    Bonnie,
    
    I didn't explain fully because I didn't bother to note down the
    Old English words these were derived from. The word for feast was
    'maesse' or something very close, and was given as derivation for
    Lammas and Hallowmas. Candlemas was the odd one out, and for this
    reason I would like to see further proof of its etymology. I was
    not really convinced myself by the 'Candle Mass' explanation, but
    that's what my dictionary said.
    
    
    Ian.
    

    re: .19
    
    Yes, "m�sse" is the Old English word for feast, including the
    feast of the Eucharist.  It's usually assumed to derive from a
    similar Latin word (which I've forgotten) that referred to the
    priest dismissing the congretation.  The same word is the origin
    of the soldier's "mess."
        
    But it does sound to me like "m�sse" is the older term for
    a religious feast and came to be applied to the particularly
    Christian religious feasts, rather than originating with the
    Christian.
    
    But it's interesting that candlemas, if it did indeed originally
    refer to some older religious observance that featured candles
    to the Lady, is totally absorbed in the Christian tradition,
    while Beltane appears to have been left out totally.    
    
    --bonnie

    Hallowmass should come after halloween, as halloween is an abbreviation
    for All Hallows Evening (hallowe'en)
    

 re .20
>        Yes, "m�sse" is the Old English word for feast, including the
>    feast of the Eucharist.  It's usually assumed to derive from a
>    similar Latin word (which I've forgotten) that referred to the
>    priest dismissing the congretation.  The same word is the origin
>    of the soldier's "mess."

    The Latin word you mean is probably "missa". The priest dismissed
    the congregation with "Ite, missa est" - how do you translate that,
    perhaps "Go, it's time to go away".

    But I don't agree that it has something to do with the soldier's
    "mess". According to my Bloch-Wartburg dictionary, this one derives 
    from French 'mes', which is an ancient spelling for 'mets', meaning dish.
    
    	roger

    >	    Hallowmass should come after halloween, 
    
    Yup isn't that what I said in .16?
    
    b
    

    Is this a violation of NOTES protocol, posting two replies in
    succession? If so, I apologize; when I posted .23 I didn't have
    time to say anything about `ite, missa est'.
    
    The sentence said at the end of the Mass could have, I think, at
    least three meanings: `go, the Mass is [i.e. that's all folks]',
    `go, the anything_feminine_and_singular has been/was sent' and
    `go, the several_things_neuter_and_plural have been/were sent'.
    
    Immediately after the Second Ecumenical Vatican Council, the
    English translation that got Westminster's imprimatur was
    `Go, the Mass is ended'.
    
    Personally I prefer `that's all folks'.
    
    b

>    Re .10:
>    
>    "To sleep, perchance to dream"?   Also, there's likely to be a
>    story there.  Care to share it?                  
    
	Not much to tell.   Three sophomores, including myself, after their 
examinations were over in the Summer decided to take a trip somewhere
interesting and not too far away.

	It was raining in the early evening when we arrived by bus in the
nearby town, so we took refuge in a local hostelry.   About eight o'clock the
rain had stopped, and the skies were brilliant as the sun set.   We walked the
couple of miles through the fields to Borley, and upon coming over the crest of
a little hill, saw a hundred yards ahead of us the stubby Saxon silhouette of 
Borley church tower against the twilight sky.

	There's a special feeling that comes when you finally visit a place that
you have pored over on a map, and that combined with the dramatic view, and the
uncertainty that comes from reaching this strange place after sun-down created
a very intense moment.

	The rectory burnt down in 1946, and now a little row of houses exists
on the tract of land which was the rectory and the long garden.   The thick
hedges that bordered the south side of the original garden (and which presumably
made it quite dark) remain.   In fact in general, the area round the still tiny 
village of Borley retains a large quantity of ancient hedgerows.   Often in 
Britain, this habitat has been obliterated by modern farmers.   But I digress.

	We had no tent, and since rain could not be ruled out, we settled in
the entrance to the church, where a wide roof would have protected twice our
number.   We ate pork pies and Sainsbury's yoghurts, and then settled down for
the night.   I had some trepidations that during the night my companions might
turn into ghouls, but as luck would have it they did not.   

	Phil and Paul really do say that their sleep was disturbed by strange 
noises, but either my sensitivity to spectres is less acute than theirs, 
or I was generating the noises myself as I slept.

	This was eleven years ago.

Andrew Buchanan

    re .24
    
    For the Christian authors, "missa" was a noun meaning the Mass;
    therefore the English official translation you mention (Go, the Mass 
    is ended) is certainly good.

    However, you're right to mention that "missa" is also a form of 
    "mittere", to send [nb. I believe this Latin verb has nothing to do
    with the name of the French Pr�sident].
    When the Mass is ended, the Christians are SENT back to the world for 
    spreading the Good Word etc ... This idea is reflected in the official 
    translation used by the French Church (Allez, c'est l'envoi). 
    
    "That's all Folks !" is definitely the best translation.

     What does this have to do with Walpurgis ? Don't ask me.
            
    	roger    

    It seems to me that `Go, the mass is ended' makes sense for today's
    devotees, but I have a feeling that `Ite, missa est' meant rather more
    in the early days.  `The mass is' is a pretty cryptic way of saying
    `the mass is over', which suggests to me that there was something
    rather special about the term `missa'. 
    
    When Christianity was effectively a secret society, trainees (or
    `catechumens') weren't admitted to that part of the mass from the
    offertory to the end. The first bit of the ceremony is known, when I
    was at school, at least, as `the _Mass_ of the Catechumens'; but it
    strikes me as possible that in early Christian times the word `missa'
    referred only to the secret part of the ceremony. In that case `Ite,
    missa est' would have told the Faithful that the ceremony (just the
    Recession) was no longer secret. 
    
    I'll risk a quotation: the truth is seldom plain, and never simple.

    b

    That the ceremony was no longer secret, or that the secret part of
    the ceremony was about to begin?  "Go, those of you who aren't
    catechumens, because the mass is [about to begin]"?
    
    --bonnie    

    Re .29:
    
    Apparently, secret afterthoughts.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr

    Actually, he was going to tell us more, but he had afterthoughts.
    
    	Jon

    One would hope that after thoughts one has NOTES, but it's obviously
    not always the case ;-) ...

    re:.32
    
    In many cases, it's obvious that some people have notes without
    having had any thoughts beforehand.
    
    --- jerry

I did try to write the afterthoughts, honest, but they must have fallen
into the Atlantic on the way over. They were, in brief (much briefer
than the original), these: the fact of the position of the words `ite
missa est' after, rather than before, the secret part (`the Proper of
the Mass') makes the secrecy theory look weak.  I see three
possibilities:

1	Before the Council of Trent the words in question may indeed
	have come before the Proper; a research project that I'm not
	volunteering for

2	In the Catacombs, where from time to time hundreds of priests
	lived, they may have used the same system as was used at the
	Benedictine abbey I used to frequent - consecutive masses on
	one altar, to allow all the priests to celebrate mass every
	day. In such a continuous loop, any punctuation - either
	before or after the secret bit - would have served to
	delineate it

3	In such a loop, the words may have been a conflation of two 
	ideas - with the `ite' referring back and the `missa est'
	referring forward; they would then translate as `Go [because
	one service has just finished. The next] mass is [about to
	start'.  Again, it'd take research of the Council of Trent
	(and church practices beforehand) to confirm this.

A fourth possibility is that all this is just Ptolemaic; the secrecy 
idea is just plain wrong. I don't think I said it was true - just
worth considering.

b

    not re: .34 
    
    Bob, I've been trying to answer the mail you sent me a while back,
    but your connection to the bottom of the Atlantic appears to be
    permanent. I always get "remote node is not currently reachable"
    errors. Even NMAIL has given up on reaching you. 
    
    Is there an alternate node you can receive mail at?  Or should I
    include a total non-sequitur about ice and salt and minks here?
    
    --bonnie     

>    Is there an alternate node you can receive mail at?  Or should I
>    include a total non-sequitur about ice and salt and minks here?
    
Now you'll have to.

    re .34:
    
    They must have falled in the English Channel (MARVIN:: is in Reading,
    VISA:: is in Valbonne).

    MARVIN is perfectly reachable from here (about a couple of hundred
    feet away).  Check that your node database says it's 42.51.
    
    Jeff.
    
    PS: The MARVIN people are that funny breed of comms folk, so who
    knows what could happen? :-)

    re .35
    
    Bonnie -
    
    With Jeff's caveat (as the MARVIN folk specialize in comms, the
    cluster's up and down like a yo-yo), MARVIN _should_ be reachable
    (most of the time - except when some twerp hasn't switched it off to
    save a few pence on the air conditioning). I've an account on the
    HEART cluster too (with FORWARD set to MARVIN). I also sometimes
    work on a 2-bit (probably 32-bit, come to think of it) workstation;
    but the two bigger machines are more reliable. Thanks for trying!
    
    b

    Given what has been said about MARVIN and comms, I thought this
    joke that came over the network this morning was fitting: 
    
    "[...]

    "It's a pity I can't MAIL you the cartoon for this, but the caption
     says it all. 

	"In a display of perverse brillance, Carl the repairman mistakes
	a room humidifier for a mid-range computer but manages to tie it
	into the network anyway."

    
--bonnie

for those familiar with Edward Albee's works, "Walpurgisnacht" is the name
of the second or third (?) act in "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" - this
relates somewhat to George's 'exorcism' of Martha. Great piece of literature!

--angela