Conference thebay::joyoflex

    It is my impression that the title of "President" [of the United
    States] is akin to military rank and degrees of education.  Once earned,
    they are not normally taken away.  I believe we still have a President
    Ford and a President Carter just as we have retired Generals, Colonels,
    and Doctors.  (Nixon may have given up his title by resignation,
    but that may be debatable.)
    
    I will stand corrected if someone claims better knowledge of political
    protocol.

    They do keep the title, but based on the context of the article,
    Lincoln was President -- at the time of the incident. (And as mentioned
    in the base note, Lincoln never made it to former; he went directly
    from "Mr. President" to "the late Mr. Lincoln.") 
    
    I personally think the article should have read "...then-President
    Lincoln," meaning "President at that time."
    
					andrew
    

    Well, someone who once was a governor of a state (in the United
    States) or was a (U.S.) ambassador retains the title _as a form
    of address_.  Thus, private-citizen Nelson Rockefeller or Avirell
    Harriman were routinely addressed as "Governor, and Mr. Ambassador,
    respectively [though both had been both]," when past office.
    Occasionally, Henry Kissinger in an interview is addressed either
    as "ambassador" or "Mr. Secretary." 
    
    By usage, I suppose when referring to, say, James Earl Carter, one
    ought say "Former President Carter," unless you're speaking of actions
    he did when _in_ office (when "President Carter" would be appropriate);
    when meeting and addressing him, "Mr. President" would be correct.
    Neither Lincoln nor Kennedy is currently President, so the form
    would be incorrect (unless you were contacting them through a seance).
    
    Steve kallis, Jr.
    
    

    In recent rebroadcast of a Boston Pops concert, the announcer said
    "The orchestra is conducted by the late Author Fiedler."  Must have
    been a special for Halloween.
    
    Bernie

    re: .4
    
    Make that the late Arthur Fielder.
    
    Bernie
    

re: .5

Make that Arthur Fiedler.  (He didn't do much ball playing, either :-)

-- Sam

    Re .4:
    
    On things musical, there was a live concert some years ago, being
    broadcast, where the announcer said,"This is [composer's work],
    _opus posthumous_."   He added, "`_Opus posthumous_' means he composed
    it after he was dead."
    
    Actually, it meanms it was first published after he was dead, but
    the announcer's explanation has a lot more charm.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

You know what Arthur Fiedler is doing now ?  No, what.  Decomposing!
(adding to the stupidity is the fact that he wasn't a composer)

You know what Arthur Fiedler'd (how's that for a contraction) be doing
if he were alive right now ?  No, what.  Clawing at the walls of his
coffin.

Sorry.  My conduct is abominable.

/Eric

    That's enough fieldling around - some of these comments are in right
    field. But some of you have field for this sort of thing.
    
    -bs
    

    In "Strictly Speaking", Edwin Neumann deplored the use of the word
    "former" in referring to past members of an administration.  He
    said it sounded as though they had been nominated to that post.
    
    "Mr. Smith, I now appoint you a former ambassador to Sweden."
    
    "Thank you, Mr. President."

Sam Hall, recently and allegedly detained against his will -- you 
certainly more than enough about that incident.

However, he was identified as an EX MARINE VETERAN in a broadcast 
from National Public Radio.

    It is derogatory to call someone an "ex-marine" as this implies
    that they received a dishonorable discharge.  
    
    It is complimentary to call someone a "former marine" as that denotes
    an honorable discharge.  This is a convention that is used within
    all of the military and foreign service (diplomatic corps).
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    

.12>    It is complimentary to call someone a "former marine" ...

Probably depends on who you ask... :-) :-) :-)

-- Sam

    Re .11:
    
    Not necessarily.  Maybe he reenlisted. :-)  [that would make him
    a "former veteran"].  
    
    Re ,13:  whom.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.