Conference taveng::bagels

I'm amazed.  We're all used to Corporate holding special events on Jewish
holidays, but DEC Israel should know better than to schedule an event on
Tisha B'Av.  Is this simply ignorance, or is there an anti-religious
sentiment among management?

    Ditto .1.  We've come to expect such in the USA, but in *Israel*!?!
    
    Laura

>
>I wonder what other people think on this - maybe I'm just being overly
>sensitive and thin-skinned?
>
Jonathan,

You are NOT overly sensitive!  

Of all places, how could this happen in Israel?

Allen

I'm chiming in to agree with the previous postings.  It's amazing that this
could happen in Israel.  Gerald beat me to asking the anti-religious question.

Gav

    RE:  .5  Huh?
    
    Hi Av.  What is this cryptic message?  Feel free to send me Email if it
    you want to communicate something private.
    
    Laura

    re. .5
    
    My modem started giving me garbage and "posted" the reply
    after it "edited" it.  What I was saying was:
    
    Laura,
    
    Who in the Corporate Valuing of Differences organization can we write
    to to protest this insensitivity and blatant anti observant action?
    
    I have been to Israel during Tisha B'Av and all restaurants are closed.
    Everyone knows that this is a special day.  Many/most secular Israelis
    do not keep the fast, but they are aware of it.
    
    The Digital-Israel management should be censured by HQ for this action.
    They certainly can't use the excuse that they were not aware of the
    date conflict.  In Israel Tisha B'Av falls on the 9th of Av!! (Unless
    it is a Shabbos...then it is moved to the 10th of Av.)
    
    I'm still flabbergasted!!
    
    Avi
    

DIGITAL ISRAEL SURE PICKED A LUCKY DAY TO KICK-OFF A SALES PROGRAM.

BOTH FOR RELIGIOUS AND NATIONALISTIC REASONS SUCH BLIND INSENSITIVITY
ASTOUNDS ME.


                     <<< Note 1350.0 by TAVIS::JONATHAN >>>
                       -< Digital Israel and Tisha B'Av >-

Digital Israel is holding its Sales and Marketing Kick-off Meeting next 
Sunday July 25th and Tuesday July 27th.

Monday July 26th is the general Company Meeting which all Digital Israel 
employees are expected to attend.   I pointed out to the powers that be, 
that Monday was Erev Tisha B'Av and that people who intended to fast would
need to leave in time for the Seuda Mafseket before the fast.  Also I 
mentioned that if lunch were to be served, the menu should contain non-meat
dishes in accordance with the principle of not eating meat in the nine 
days before Tisha B'Av.   It seems that I made myself understood, and that 
these things will be OK, hopefully.

However, regarding the Sales and Marketing Kick-off, we received mail that
our presence is *imperative*.   Not only that, but lunch will be served at
the meeting on Tuesday (Tisha B'Av).   My mails to the person who organized
the whole thing and to my manager's manager that I would not be attending
on Tuesday went unanswered.  (I should add that in Digital Israel, Tisha B'Av 
is a Yom Bechira meaning a day which employees can take off as one their
two Special Holidays).   

As far as I know, it is an offence to open a public eating place on Tisha 
B'Av.  No picture-houses or entertainment is permitted, and radio and 
television have special programs.

I wonder what other people think on this - maybe I'm just being overly
sensitive and thin-skinned?

Astounding! There is no excuse for something like this.

yoseff

    My point of contact in the Valuing Diversity program is:
    
    Ms. Kim Cromwell
    
    ICS::ICS::MRGATE::"A1::VALDIV.CROMWELL"
    223-9004
    
    She is the US Diversity Programs Manager. She should be able 
    to point you to the appropriate person higher up in the Worldwide
    Personnel organization.
    
    Please don't go into this with high expectations.  The current climate
    is. . .
    
    Laura

    I personally can think of only one good reason: The news that we are
    going to get is so bad that the day before 9'th of Av (or even the day
    itself) is appropriate. :-)
    
    Having said that tongue in cheek, I totally agree with all the previous
    replies, and would even go as far as calling it "Kefiya Chilonit" -
    Forcing a relgious person to do something against his beliefs. Now the
    day before "might" have some excuse, even though I can't imagine what
    it would be, but having one WITH LUNCH on the fast-day itself is a
    first for me.
    
    	Yaacov
    

I would like to report that the meal scheduled has been cancelled.

Also people who said they would not be able to attend the lectures 
because of the fast have been excused.

I consider this a reasonable solution to the situation.

Any other actions are completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

    Honestly I am surprised by all of you, that means by all that flamed on
    the Tisha B'Av luncheon issue. I surely believe that DEC Israel
    management, as all of us - I hope -, is expecting that the Messiah
    comes to us, bemehira beyamenu, at any monent, and gets rid of the fast
    of Tisha B'av.

    Then, Tisha B'Av will be a holyday, well fit for a joyful luncheon,
    instead of a day of fast.

    And if the Messiah will take some more time, the luncheon can allways
    be cancelled - as I was notified that it was.

    Regards,

    Juan-Carlos Kiel
    DEC Israel

    P.S.: Let me state that I agreed and supported the need to adapt the 
          meeting to the Tisha B'Av requirements and respect all sensibilities.

    RE:  .13  :-)
    
    Actually, I find a Tisha B'Av kickoff eerily appropriate for the
    current state of the company.  It has been likened to a funeral home,
    at least here in the US.
    
    Recruiting brochure, "Come work for Digital, where every day is Tisha
    B'Av."  ?  ;-)
    
    L

    Laura, just for the record, the pessemistic feelings you expressed from
    your side of the Atlantic are not accurate for Israel.  We have just
    completed a successful FY93, when we exceeded all our targets, and have
    every intention of doing the same in FY94.  We just hope that the rest
    of the company can now start showing the kind of results which will
    lead to a feeling of optimism throughout Digital.
    
    Shalom
    Baruch

Actually I am *very* worried what DIGITAL (Israel) is now going to arrange for
15 Av :-) :-) 

							.... Monty

    RE:  .15
    
    Baruch,
    
    Glad to hear it.  Keep up the good work.
    
    Laura

    Re: this issue
    
    I've been busy working at a customer, and finally enjoying some
    vacation so I am trying to catch up on notes.
    
    Frankly I was somewhat taken aback at the first set of replies that
    discussed "anti-religiousness" of DEC-Israel management, and bringing
    this to the attention of U.S. valuing differences management, etc.  
    
    First of all country management in Israel is not "anti-religious", and
    I am sure that the opening of the cafeteria on Tisha B'av was a faux
    pas on an individual level (which I noticed was quickly corrected). 
    You should be aware that secular Israelis do not have the consciousness
    to recognize or observe the details of holidays such as Tisha B'av in
    which we are allowed to work and go about "secular" business.  Is this
    an indictment of secular Jews?  Not in the least.  In fact this should
    enlighten baglers as to the "diversity" amongst Jews in Israel.
    
    I also felt that it is entirely inappropriate, not to mention
    out-of-bounds, to bring this issue to a U.S.-based organization such as
    VOD.
    
    --David

    I thought that "valuing of differences" was a corporate directive. The 
    whole idea of VoD is to sensitize people so that "faux pas" don't just
    happen.  "Forgetting" Tisha B'av in Israel (where it is noted on most
    if not all calendars) and scheduling important meetings and luncheons
    on such a day may have been a mistake.  Obviously, event planners in
    Israel need to be sensitized to the needs of a portion of the
    DEC-Israel population.  When events in the states are scheduled for
    our Holy Days, we alert the appropriate management and work with VoD to
    prevent the mistakes in the future.  
    
    My reaction was to the inaction noted in the base note.  No response to
    the issue had been given when .0 was posted.

    Why a different standard for Israel?  That should be evident in itself. 
    The VOD approach would never fly in Israel, and frankly I question it's
    effectiveness here.  I had to attend sessions just like anyone else,
    and I have never seen any marked change in those employees who hold
    racist or at least sterotypical images of others.  Change has to come
    from within for it to be lasting.
    
    I agree that there should be a nationwide reconciliation program for
    secular and dati populations, the fallout from related issues are why
    some of us are back out in the galut.
    
    But VOD is a U.S. program.  There was something in the Globe about a U.S.
    group (not Digital) doing some education in Europe in differences,
    etc., but that different approaches have to be taken due to cultural
    differences, etc. 
    
    /d.c.