Conference taveng::bagels

As if more evidence is needed, I include the following self-explanatory
article. Thanks again to Don Feinberg (wherever you are!).

      The Simon Wiesenthal center has just announced that they have  a  copy
      of the "Hamas" covenant.  The official title of this covenant is

                  "Charter of the Islamic Resistance Movement -
                                      Hamas
                               Gaza, August, 1988"

      The Wiesenthal Center has published translations of  key  passages  of
      this  "Hamas Covenant".  It is a forty page manifesto from a key group
      involved in the Intifada.  Among its key points are (direct quotes):


       o  "The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) feels that  the  land  of
          Palestine  is  a  trust  which  belongs  to  Islam  throughout the
          generations until the day of resurrection ...  no one  is  allowed
          to compromise on this land ..." (page 11)


       o  "There is no solution to the  Palestinian  question,  but  through
          Jihad" (Holy War) ...  (page 14)


       o  "Our enemies  ...   gained  control  of  the  international  media
          beginning  with  news agencies, newspapers, and publishing houses.
          Broadcasting stations ..  with their  money  they  have  detonated
          revolutions  in  different parts of the world ...  (including) the
          French Revolution ...   the  Communist  Revolution  .   they  have
          created  secret organizations which spread throughout the world in
          order to destroy societies and to achieve Zionist  interest;  such
          as the Free Masons, the Rotary, and the Lions Club." (page 24)


       o  "They were behind World War I ...  World War II, where  they  made
          enormous profits from speculation ...  There is no war anywhere in
          which their fingers do not play ..." (page 25)


       o  "After Palestine, they (Zionists)  aspire  to  further  expansion.
          Their  plan  is  the  Protocols  of  the  Elders of Zion and their
          present conduct testifies to the truth of what we say." (page 35)

      The Wiesenthal Center has forwarded copies of the  document  to  every
      member  of  Congress,  the  Canadian  Parliament,  and to key European
      Parliaments.  The Cnter has urged our own government to  instruct  our
      diplomatic  postings  in  the  Middle  East to monitor and protest the
      increasing use of antisemitic rhetoric and publications throughout the
      Middle East.

      In response to the Center's initiative, U.  S.   Senator  Pete  Wilson
      (R-CA) wrote to U.  S.  Secretary of State George Shultz:

          "I strongly encourage you  to  review  this  document  and  to
          instruct the appropriate State Department diplomats to take up
          the matter of Arab anti-semitism in their ongoing  discussions
          with  Middle  Eastern leaders.  It seems clear that a peaceful

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          resolution of the various conflicts in the region will  become
          ever   more  elusive  if  the  prescription  for  warfare  and
          intolerance outlined by the IRM (Islamic Resistance  Movement)
          Charter  emerges  as the dominant strategy throughout the Arab
          World."

    Re .1:
    
    I am truly thankful that the Hamas Covenant has helped me to better
    understand the part Freemasonry plays in the "International Zionist
    Conspiracy"!
    
    Mark

    Re .0:
    
    Senseless....absolutely senseless.
    
    Mark

    The Lions and the Rotary??!!!??
    
    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
    
    How interesting - (See my reply to previous NOTE) that segments
    of the Palesinian movement assume the old rhetoric of Christian
    anti-Semitism.  Wonder who's giving them lessons??  Is anything
    known about possible ties to Nazi groups?
    

    As far as I'm being told, "Christians" have as much to do with "Nazis"
    as "Jews" have to do with "International free-masonic conspiracy".
    
    One more: there is no "christian" anti-semitism. It's a contradiciton
    in terms, so I'm told.
    
    Who's giving them lessons? You're already suggesting the answer. Mind
    coming up with some supporting facts?
    
    Doubtfully yours,
    
    Chris

    Re .5:
    
    Hi Chris:
    
    The sad truth is many Nazis were (and are) Christians. This is not
    to say that if a person is/was a Christian that they were necessarily a
    Nazi. While not great in number, there were enough German Christians
    who stood up to the Nazis during the Third Reich to at least be
    noted in the history books albeit posthumously.
    
    During the Third Reich, many German church leaders bought into the
    Nazi movement and urged their parishoners to support Hitler. By
    supporting the Nazi cause, they were doing G_d's work on earth;
    it was almost a Christian duty to do so.
    
    As far as the "International Jewish/Freemasonry Conspiracy" is
    concerned, this was an invention of Dr. Goebbels who probably lifted
    it from the Dreyfus Affair of the late 19th century. According to
    Nazi propaganda, the Freemasons were agents of the Jewish Conspiracy
    and were a danger to the Third Reich because they spread Jewish
    propaganda. Franklin D. Roosevelt was a Mason and the Nazis claimed
    that as evidence that he was an element of the "conspiracy".
    Supposedly, again according to Nazi propaganda, Roosevelt was really
    Jewish and his real name was, get this, Rosenfeld but had been changed
    so that his role in the "conspiracy" would not be as apparent. And
    of course the Masons were a "secret" society that promoted such
    anti-Nazi ideals as universal brotherhood, equality, and charity so
    that made them instantly suspect as far as the Nazis were concerned!
    
    While anti-semitism may seem out of place in Modern Christianity,
    it certainly had a place in church doctrine until the 19th centruy
    in some places (Spain, Portugal). It really reached its peak during the
    Spanish Inquisition but ripples from early church teaching against
    Judaism are still found in the Christian Bible although to a large
    extent they go unnoticed.
    
    I agree with Laura - sounds like the IRM "borrowed" Nazi propaganda
    from 50 years ago and are basically rehashing old lies.
    
    Mark

    See, the issue is that with generalizing statements, you simply turn
    people away who might be willing to support Jewish causes.
    
    I'm not saying that "many Nazis were Christians" is wrong. I'm saying
    that "Christian Nazi doctrines (or alikes)" is a term not to choose.
    
    That's all.
    
    Yours,
    
    Chris

    Re: .5
    
    Chris, 'christian anti-semitism' is, indeed a contradiction.
    There is no such thing among Christians who understand their
    Scriptures. By understand, I don't mean intellectually. I mean
    spiritually, in their hearts. One can know intellectually,
    but be blind spiritually.                 
    
    This is illustrated in Mark's statement:
    
    >The sad truth is many Nazis were (and are) Christians. This is not
    >to say that if a person is/was a Christian that they were necessarily a
    >Nazi. While not great in number, there were enough German Christians
    >who stood up to the Nazis during the Third Reich to at least be
    >noted in the history books albeit posthumously.
     
    The former were the 'intellectuals', but spiritually blind. The latter
    were those in whom the teachings had penetrated to the innermost
    being to where they saw the spiritual truth, and were willing
    to stand up for it and die for it. G-d's word was written where
    in changed them: on their hearts.
    
    I know you've often heard the argument that those who participated/
    supported Hitler "were not real Christians", and you may be sick
    of it by now. I do think it's important to try to understand
    this.  There is a "Christianity" in name only, and Christianity
    that has a spiritual dimension experience. True Christianity is a 
    living, dynamic relationship with G-d, not just a "religion". It
    is a state of _being_ that is expressed outwardly in doing good.
    
    Those who have it are changed by it. Those who don't, have 'religion',
    and are referred to as 'professing' Christians [i.e., born into a
    family and therefore Christian by name]. It's like a title that
    goes with the family...conveyed by tradition and custom. It's
    worn like a badge that has been inherited, not awarded.
    
    A true Christian has his own badge, not somebody else's passed
    down to him. There _is_ a difference. And a true Christian knows
    the responsibility that goes along with being a 'follower of Christ'.
    
    I think you can see this if you look at the different ways 
    "Christians" responded to the Nazi cause. What made some go along 
    with it and even support it, while others gave their lives to oppose 
    it? What made the difference? Do you suppose it just might have been 
    spiritual understanding that made the difference?
    
    Irena