Conference taveng::bagels

    Are there other quotes in this paper which would lead the reader
    to perceive some compromise or 'workable' alternatives?
    
    Curiously yours,
    
    Chris

    Just so we know whom we're talking about,
    
    Hamas is the "extremist" Moslem resistance group.  They have benefited
    from the intifadah, and oppose the Arafat "moderate" faction of
    the PLO.
    
    It has been claimed that the Israeli right is aiding Hamas, since
    they contribute to a "no compromise" mentality.

    re: .2
    
    An analogy between Likud and Hamas is absurd, and shows a total
    misunderstanding of it's political make-up.  How can you compare
    Likud to an anti-Jewish (Arabs can never be anti-semitic) group
    such as Hamas?
    
    David

    "Anti-Semite n. A person hostile toward Jews."
        American Heritage Dictionary

    "Anti-Semitism n. dislike  or hatred for Jews; prejudice against
    Jews."
    	Thorndike-Barnhart Dictionary
    
    THERE ARE NO SECOND DEFINITIONS---LOOK IT UP YOURSELF!!
    
    The term "anti-Semitism" was a word which was coined to mean and has
    always meant Jew hatred.  It is semantic revisionism to make it mean
    hatred of "semites". I guess an Arab can be anti-Semetic as the
    base note certainly indicates! 

    re: .4
    
    The Arabs are as much a Semitic people as we are, therefore it seems
    incorrect for one to be an "anti-semitic semite", dictionary or
    no dictionary.
    
    David 

    In fact, David is supported by every ethnographic study.
    The Arabs are semitic.
    
    But I also guess those who first coined the term Anti-semite
    thinking of Jew hatred were those illiterate we all know...
    
    From each and every scientific standpoint, the above equation
    only shows ignorance, as it is derived from the facts that
    History showed us 60 years ago.
    
    Rub�n.

    If any people is truly anti-semitic, it is the French.  They hate
    Jews and Arabs, despite their decalrations of support for the Arab
    cause (just keep those oil tankers coming, thank you).
    
    David

    re .7
    
    I understand that the intent of your reply was to illustrate
    the term anti-semitism, but there is hardly an excuse for
    such sweeping and insensitive generalization.

    It doesn't matter what you WANT it to mean...
    Anti-Semitism means only Jew Hatred!
    
    If you want to develop a new definition, please understand that
    it is NEW.  I have NEVER heard of someone who dislikes Arabs being
    called an "anti-semite"!
    
    This mis-statement of the meaning of "anti-semitism" usually has
    been used by Arabs in the following sentence:
    
    "I am not anti-semitic, I'm a Semite myself.  What I am is
    Anti-ZIONIST"
    
    Read  "Why the Jews" By Telushkin and Praeger to better understand
    the disinformation and semantic revisionism of the "new" definition. 

    

    re:.3
    The analogy is thus:  Labor is the "moderate" wing of Israeli political
    thought, willing to negotiate with the Arabs over land.  Likud is
    the irridentist wing, unwilling to give an inch.  Arafat's PLO-Fatah
    is now playing the "moderate" wing of the Palestinian resistance,
    now willing to negotiate with the Israelis over land.  (Obviously,
    their starting position is rather far from Labor's.  But that's
    how negotiation begins.  You should see some of the contracts I
    helped negotiate, and how the first drafts looked!)  Hamas is the
    irridentist wing, unwilling to concede an inch.
    
    It follows (and has been reported) that Hamas is being encouraged
    by some Israeli irridentists, since their ascendancy reduces the
    likelihood of Israel's being able to negotiate a peaceful settlement.
    It's a rather cynical form of support, sort of picking your enemies
    for a future fight.
        
    This digression over the semantic of "anti-semitism" is rather off
    the topic, though.  While the etymology of the term would imply
    that it includes Arabs, it was apparently coined by a political
    faction in 19th centry Austria, who were looking for a more erudite
    sounding term for Jew-hatred, which was their program.  If one accepts
    that the coiner of a term can define it, then an Arab can be just
    as much an Anti-Semite as an Aryan.

    re: .8
    
    Ok maybe I did get a bit extreme, but try living in France for a
    while and see what it's like or ask an expatriate Algerian what
    it's like for a "semite" in France.
    
    I think it has been a little counter-productive to continue on with
    this etymological discussion so maybe we should call it quits now.
    
    re: .10
    
    There's more than meets the eye or rather the western media's
    impression of Likud.  There are many in Likud who, despite their
    bellicose announcements of not one inch, etc., would actually swallow
    the "bitter pill" of compromise.  Whereas a mainstream member of
    Hamas would not be satisfied until there wasn't one Jew living in
    eretz.
    
    David

    re .11:
    
    If you think that the French are "anti-semitic", have a try and expose
    yourself as a Jew in an average German (especially Bavarian)
    countryside pub. Well, no, I'd suggest you'd rather NOT do it. Things
    are getting similar in Austria, these days, by the way (they have
    a new, young polemicising politician who navigates through all possible
    means to activate xenophobe feelings).
    
    You can still do this in any French pub. Sometimes, some (not all)
    persons might turn away from you (this could happen to you in some
    Southern US States as well, no?), but you will not be in a physical
    danger. 
    
    Should you refer to the "Le Pen wave", let me inform you that a poll
    during last week showed that he will encounter disaster during the town
    elections in March.
    
    The overtly expressed xenophobic opinions usually generate more uproar.
    However, due to previous experiences, I would say that it is the
    rampant, hidden, slimy, silent racism which is more dangerous: if the
    latter explodes, the results are unpredictable, generally very violent. 
    
    Empirically yours,
    
    Chris 

                   Militant Palestinians Form Anti-PLO Alliance



                        [reprinted without permission from

                           Boston Globe, 7 Jan., 1989]





      JERUSALEM (AP)- Arab radicals announced yesterday the formation of  an

      alliance against the Palestine Liberation Organization in the occupied

      territories  that  includes  Moslem  fundamentalists  and   pro-Syrian

      extremists opposed to Yasser Arafat's recent peace overtures.



           Also yesterday, police said that they suspected that  Palestinian

      nationalists  were  responsible  for  the  killing  of an Israeli taxi

      driver, Shmuel Edri, who was found shot to death in the occupied  West

      Bank the night before.



           In a leaflet issued yesterday, the Palestinian  radicals  accused

      Arafat,  the  PLO's chairman, of "selling out Palestine to imperialism

      and Zionism" by announcing that he  recognized  Israel  and  renounced

      terrorism at a news conference in Geneva last month.



           "We demand the establishment of a militant leadership to  replace

      the  diminishing leadership of Yasser Arafat," said the leaflet, which

      was signed by the United National Front in Occupied Palestine.



           The group is an alliance of  Islamic  extremists  and  pro-Syrian

      radicals,  including  members  of  Ahmed Jamal's Popular Front for the

      Liberation of Palestine-General Command  and  Abu  Moussa's  breakaway

      faction of Arafat's mainstream Fatah.



           The leaflet also called for the  formation  of  a  new  Palestine

      national council led by militants who advocate armed struggle.



           The present  council,  the  Palestine  Liberation  Organization's

      parliament  in exile, adoped a declaration of independence in November

      that implicitly recognized Israel's right to exist.

    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", says an old proverb.

    Maybe it isn't that much unconceivable to start discussions with
    Arafat?
    
    Stirringly yours,
    
    Chris

               Reprinted without permission from the Jewish Press
                                 6 January, 1989

                     "Arafat Warns Against Ending Uprising"
                                   A. S. Lewin


      Jerusalem -- In a declaration commemorating the 24th  anniversary  of
      the  Palestinian  armed  struggle,  Yasser  Arafat said that the Arab
      uprising in the territories will continue until  the  Israeli  forces
      will withdraw from the occupied territories.

           "No one can stop the "intifada" and we'll murder any Palestinian
      leader  who  will try," he said.  Arafat was responding to an earlier
      proposal by Bethlehem's mayor Elias Freij, who called  for  a  'cease
      fire'  in  the  territories  under  U.  N.  auspices until democratic
      elections are held in the territories.

           Meanwhile, Egypt's  Minister  of  State,  Butros  Ghali,  blamed
      Israel for the "cold peace" that exists between Egypt and Israel.  He
      said that Israel's refusal to respond to the outstretched hand of the
      Palestinians creates an atmosphere of cold peace.

           According to Ghali, the Palestinians want to make peace  adn  to
      have  mutual relations with Israel, but Israel is vaccilating between
      war and peace and can't make up its mind.

           At the same  time,  Egypt  has  resumed  its  virulent  diatribe
      against  Israel  in  the  past  week.  The ink in Egypt's "al-Akhbar"
      editorial last Friday [30 December, 1988], accusing Israel of bombing
      Pan   Am,  had  barely  dried  when  another  semi-official  Egyptian
      governmental  newspaper  "Algomahariya"  came  out  with  an  article
      entitled  "Kill  Jews,  But  Not  On Egyptian Territory." The article
      describes Israel-Egypt relations saying:

          "It is a mistake to say that 97 percent of Egyptian  citizens
          oppose  normalization  (with  Israel).   The fact is that 100
          percent  oppose  normalization.   Every  Egyptian   minister,
          senior  or  junior  official,  hates Israel.  But, as one who
          serves in an official capacity, he  is  forced  to  negotiate
          with  Israel.   Kill  Jews,  but  not  on  Egyptian territory
          because it  will  create  an  internal  security  problem  in
          Egypt."

      The article was referring to an  Egyptian  soldier,  described  as  a
      hero,  for killing, in cold blood, seven Israelis who were on tour in
      Ras Burka (an area in Sinai that had been returned to  the  Egyptians
      in  1982),  two years ago.  The Egyptian tribunal that tried the case
      is  expected  to  issue  its  verdict  shortly  on  how  much  damage
      compensation Egypt will have to pay to the victims' families.

	I picked up a news item last week.

	It seems that in the recent infiltration from Lebanon in the
	north, one of the captured commandos was carrying his
	identification card.  A photograph of it was reproduced
	in one of the Israeli newspapers.  It clearly showed that
	that person was a Sergeant-Major in the PLO...  I understand
	also that the US is talking to the PLO about the incident.

	(Does anyone from TAV-land have more details?)

	Hmmm. "Read my lips:  No new terrorism..."

/don feinberg

	On the 11:00 news on NBC last evening, there were a few minutes
	of a videotaped interview with Sirhan Sirhan.

	Question:  So, why _did_ you kill Robert Kennedy?

	Answer: Well, Kennedy was my idol. But he supported Israel...

/don feinberg

    Re: .16
    
    The Palestinians (and Lebanese) were captured in Lebanon.  Or have
    I missed the announcement of Israel's annexation of south Lebanon?
    Have they made it official now?  Or are they just still diverting
    the water resources to Israel's use and deporting the Lebanese
    inhabitants of the area?
    

    re: 18
    
    Would you have preferred for them to be captured in Israel?

       
>    Would you have preferred for them to be captured in Israel?

    What makes you think that Karen would have liked them captured? 
    Didn't the Israelis have it coming to them? 
    
    Malcolm