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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

392.0. "Adoption in the Talmud -- Need sources" by BAGELS::SREBNICK (David Srebnick, NCSS, LKG1-3/B19) Tue Nov 10 1987 20:17

    Calling all Talmiday Chachamim!!
    
    I am teaching a session at a USY (United Synagogue Youth --
    Conservative) convention next week.  The session will deal with
    "adoption."  Can anyone point me to a tractate (and perhaps a page) of
    Talmud that deals with that? 
    
    All I need is the reference; I have access to translations, etc.
    
    A little more about what I need it for.
    
    One of the things I try to do is to expose USYers to real, live Talmud.
    I do this by having them study a passage (1-2 sentences) in the
    original Hebrew/Aramaic with the aid of a customized glossary. The
    glossary gives enough information about the meaning of the words in the
    passage so that they'll be able to deduce the meaning of the text.
    It's not a direct translation; they'll have to do some thinking to
    discover the sense of the passage.
    
    Thanks for any help,
    
    Dave
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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392.1Hardly a Talmid Chacham,but...RICKS::REISSMon Nov 16 1987 08:5314
    
    Hope this isn't too late for your class, David, I just got around
    to last week's BAGELS NOTES.  I think the place to find stuff on
    adoption in the Talmud is Ketubot, somewhere in the vicinity of
    yud-aleph. 
    
     I remember there's some neat stuff on whether it's better
    to adopt a Jewish child or a non-Jewish child (surprise!  A non-Jewish
    child; that way there's no danger of marriage to a 'real' Jewish
    family member later) and (ala typical Gomorrah sidetracking style)
    some stuff on what you do about her children when a woman converts
    to Judaism (whether they have to be converted, and when.)  I'd love
    to hear what you did with this class after you've done it.  --Fern
392.2Gomorrah?...TAVMTS::JUANThu Nov 19 1987 07:4312
    Fern, is it really Gomorrah? Do you mean Gemarah (Gemoreh with
    Ashkenazi prononciation), i.e. the second part of the Talmud, the
    "completion" of the Talmud, written in Babilon around 300 C.E.?
    
    Gomorrah is the (Spanish) spelling for the twin city of Sedom (Sedom
    ve'Amorah in Hebrew) and I hardly believe that you were hinting
    at that...
    
    Regards,
    
    Juan-Carlos
392.3Gomorrah v' Babilon...RICKS::REISSThu Nov 19 1987 09:0013
    
    <Fern, is it really Gomorrah?  Do you mean Gemarah (Gemoreh with
    <Ashkenazi prononciation), i.e. the second part of the Talmud, the
    <"completion" of the Talmud, written in Babilon around 300 C.E.?
    
    <Gomorrah is the (Spanish) spelling for the twin city of Sedom (Sedom
    <ve'Amorah in Hebrew) and I hardly believe that you were hinting
    <at that...
    
    Well, Juan, David did say he wanted to keep his USY-ers interested!
    I meant Gemarah, I always misspell transliterated words.  (Did
    you mean "Babilon"?)
392.4I found some sources on adoptionBAGELS::SREBNICKDavid Srebnick, NCSS, LKG1-3/B19Fri Nov 20 1987 11:3329
    I did manage to find some references.
    
    Ketubot 11a/11b (Yod-alef, amud alef va'amud bet, for those
        transliteration specialists):
    
        This passage deals with a woman who was adopted and converted
        before the age of 3 years and one day.  When she reaches her
        majority (presumably the age of 12) she may protest her conversion,
        and it will be annulled.  If she does not protest (the Gemarah says
        "within one hour") then the conversion stands. 
        
    Sanhedrin 19b (Yod tet, amud bet)
    
        This one is about raising an orphan.  In II Samuel XXI v.8 (doesn't
        that sound impressive?) a reference is made to the fact that
        Michal, one of King David's wives, bore five sons.  This is
        a contradiction, since it is known that Michal didn't actually
        give birth to any children.  In fact, the 5 sons were borne
        by Merab, but raised by Michal.
        
        This conflict teaches us that whoever raises an orphan, it is
        as if the child was her own.
    
    There seem to be no Talmudic references to legal proceedings for
    adoption.  Marriage, divorce, conversion, etc. were covered, but
    not adoption.  It may be true that very few people (if any) ever
    thought of bearing a child and then putting him/her up for adoption.
    
    Dave