Conference taveng::bagels

		    ?

    The Jews were nominated to be the Chosen People, and accepted
    the nomination.
    
    Their "Chosenness" means that they are supposed to be "A light
    unto the nations."; i.e., they are supposed to act in the most
    moral manner possible at all times to serve as a good example.
    
    It means that they have over five hundred laws to follow, instead
    of the seven that others are contracted to.  It does not mean
    that they are more likely to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
    
    Yes, a convert takes this on.
    
    I gather you thought it sounded like a good deal?
    
    							Ann B.

    Yes we are the chosen people. Even though we have forsaken Ha'Shem
    again and again He has chosen us as His people and He will never
    abandon us.
    
    We know we are the chosen people because of the two great
    miracles. First Ha'Shem chose a small and insignificant group of
    slaves, and led them out of Egypt. To understand the significance
    of this event let's compare it to todays situation. Mosha went to
    Paro and demanded "Let my people go!" We have to keep in mind that
    Egypt was the largest world power at the time. Can you imagine
    what would happen today if some Soviet Jew walked up to Gorbechev
    and said the same thing. Do you think he would let all the Soviet
    Jews leave? Do you think he would give them riches before they
    left as Paro did? 
    
    The second miracle is receiving the Torah, both written and
    oral. Ha'Shem entrusted it to us and no one else. The Torah
    wasn't only given to Mosha and those Jews who were present
    at Har Saini. The Neshuma of every Jew that ever was and every
    Jew that ever will be was also present when the Torah was given.
    
    
    				Fred
    

    Back to .0,
    What has been said in the previous replies is true.  However, it
    does not mean that we are _superior_ (even in the eyes of the Almighty)
    to other peoples.  There's been some resentment about this "chosen
    people" stuff (as in your third point about the merit system) over
    that idea.
    
    At least where I come from, the fact that we were chosen for our
    role does not mean that others aren't in some way "chosen" for their
    roles.  It just means that we didn't choose our role, it was chosen
    for us, and we thus have the Law to carry with us.  (Ever been
    "volunteered?"  Not entirely dissimilar, in its own way.)

RE: .2

Ann

   > The Jews were nominated to be the Chosen People, and accepted
   > the nomination.
    
	Was anybody else in the running ?
       
   > It means that they have over five hundred laws to follow, instead
   > of the seven that others are contracted to.  It does not mean
   > that they are more likely to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
    
	That does not seem like a win/win contract to me !

  >  Yes, a convert takes this on.
    
  >  I gather you thought it sounded like a good deal?
    
    							Ann B.
	Such a deal I have for you !

re: .3

Fred,

   >  Yes, we are the chosen people. Even though we have forsaken Ha'Shem again
   >  and again he has chosen us as his people and he will never abandon us.


	. "his people" - does that imply that non-Jews are not his people ?
	.  If ,in fact, Jews are his people - what does that mean at 
	   'Judgement Time' ?

		
David	    

    Re .4
    
    No one said we were superior. We are keepers of the Law. As such
    we are judged by a higher standard. 
    
    Re .5
    
    > "his people" - does that imply that non-Jews are not his people ?
    
    Who said "his people"? I said chosen people. Ha'Shem spoke to non-Jews.
    I'm sure you read in your chumash several weeks ago how Ha'Shem not
    only sent angles to speak to Baalim but Ha'Shem also spoke directly to
    him. Baalim was a pagan religious leader who was hired by Balik to
    curse the Jewish people. Ha'Shem turned the curses into a blessing. 
    
    Why are you so cynical? Enjoy being Jewish!
    
    			Fred
    
    

    I will add just a little to Fred's posting.  As the chosen people
    we have more OBLIGATIONS and RESPONSIBILITIES, not benefits.  We
    have been chosen to serve and not to be superior.

    Fred, are those 180 degree angles or 90 ?

    8-}

    
    If I remember my Midrash correctly, Hashem (through the angels)
    approached all the major nations of thwe day and offered the Torah
    to them as well.  No one wanted it.
    
    Bruce
    
    

    "Hashem...offered the Torah to other nations...no one wanted it."
    
    Well, yes and no.
    
    Well, the midrashim (plural of midrash) about the revelation at
    Sinai, the giving of the law, etc., are numerous, complex, and
    fascinating.  I remember a longer version of the one Bruce quoted
    above, which gives the story a different, maybe more bittersweet,
    flavor.
    
    God offered his law, his revelation and his covenant to all the
    nations.  Before agreeing to the contract, however, each nation
    would ask what was involved in keeping his law.  A commandment would
    be quoted to them, (say, "you shall have no other gods", or "you
    shall love your neighbor as yourself", or whatever), and the nation
    being proposed to would say, "thanks, but no thanks. that's too
    hard".   Finally, after exhausting all the other possibilities,
    God came to Israel, and made them the same offer, only while he
    made it to them, he held Mount Sinai raised over their heads and
    threatened to bury them under it if they refused.  Then they
    said "Na'aseh venishma" -- We will _do_ and we will _listen_,
    which is to say, we accept your commandments before we have
    heard exactly what they are, unconditionally.
    
    

  The modern midrash says god offered them the tablets with the commandments,
and when they asked "how much?" he answered "free", so they said "ok, give us
two".

    This you have as your greatest benefit
    
    and God said to Abraham "I am thy exceeding great reward".
    
                         Hank DAlelio
                
                         Hi Dave - I hope this helps