Conference tallis::celt

    
    
    The Irish Consulate is located on 555 Boylston Street in Boston,
    right across the street from Copley Square. The phone number is
    617.267.9330 I'm sure they can answer all your questions.
    
    From experience I can tell you that the process is long and
    complicated. I think Mr Darcy has a few war stories or two also.
    
    I was sucessful in obtaining an Irish passport but it is not something
    that I would want to go thru on a regular basis.
    
    
    keVin
    

    As I recall, officially he must have a grandparent born in Ireland. To
    help his case, his father should apply for a passport, and then register
    your friend as a foreign birth. Until that happens, no chance.
    
    I was told by the Irish embassy here in Brussels, that my children have
    the right to a passport through my mother not me, and that they must
    become Irish by Declaration/Naturalisation for their children to become
    so. In any event, I am required to register them as Foreign Births in
    order that they can have a passport at all.
    
    Furhter, I understand that things have tightened up considerably after
    a) Irish passprts were severely devalued by that bloke in London who
    was selling them off a couple of years ago, and b) the new EC
    immigration laws that came into effect on 1st Jan 1994
    
    Laurie.

    
    Yeah, As Mr Burns pointed out to me,  Ollie North used them during the
    famous Contra situ here in the USA and this has also added some
    difficulty tothe process.

    
    By the way, a related question - has noter (or their spouse) got their 
    Irish passport through marriage to an Irish citizen.  My wife is
    considering this path, but she said that when she checked about 2 years
    ago she was told we had to be married 5 years - no way around this.
    
    That seem crazy, even the US dept of INS is that bad.
    
    Anyone have any insights into this ?
    
    PS
    ( I'm not trying to get into the  "passport wholesale" busines )
     

	Hello Gerry, I know someone who used to work in the consulate
	a few years back (not in the USA, but the Irish citizenship rules
	apply the same in all countries). Here is what she reckons:
	
	- If you were born in Ireland (Republic or the six counties), you
	are Irish and can get a passport as long as you have a birth
	certificate.
	
	- If one or more of your parents was born in Ireland (again,
	North or South does not come into it), you are also considered to
	have Irish citizenship, and can get a passport as long as you
	have a birth certificate, your parents' birth certificates, and
	their marriage certificate (if only your mother was Irish born).
	What you do if your parents weren't married isn't clear.
	
	- If your Grandpparents were Irish born, you can obtain Irish
	citizenship by getting the relevant birth and marriage
	certificates, and paying a registration fee (the details on this
	were a bit sketchy). Once you are registered you can get a
	passport.
	
	- If your Great Grandparents were Irish born, you are out of
	luck, and cannot obtain Irish citizenship. The only exception to
	this is if you are any good at football (goalkeepers and strikers
	preferred, apply before June 1994 to avoid disappointment - Packy
	Bonnar can't even make the Celtic first team at the moment, and
	Niall Quinn is out till next season !).
			
	John

>1) Can his father claim Irish ancestor as his grand-parents came from Ireland ?
>2) Can he then claim if (when) his father is successful in his application ?
    
    Unfortunately, grandchildren of Irish-born natives cannot pass
    citizenship (once obtained via Foreign Births) to their children.
    This was enacted sometime around 1980.
    
    I don't know if it's possible (or common) to obtain Irish citizenship
    simply by living in Ireland for a certain number of years.  This would
    be another alternative I suppose.  Anyone know?
    
    /g
    

    RE: .2  by PLAYER::BROWNL 
    
    >Furhter, I understand that things have tightened up considerably after
    >a) Irish passprts were severely devalued by that bloke in London who
    >was selling them off a couple of years ago, and b) the new EC
    >immigration laws that came into effect on 1st Jan 1994
    
    Could you please elaborate on "b)" Laurie?
    

    
    If I recall, a senior official in the Irish embassy in London was
    "selling" Irish passports to people to allow them into Ireland and UK (
    as we don't have a visa need).
    
    It was someway linked to arranged marriages etc - he made a lot of
    money, but got caught when an audit (i think) noticed some very strange
    sounding Irish names :=).

    RE: .8  by CTHQ::COADY
    
    >If I recall, a senior official in the Irish embassy in London was
    >"selling" Irish passports to people to allow them into Ireland and UK (
    >as we don't have a visa need).
    
    No, no, I wasn't asking about that.  I was asking about point B,
    changes in EC immigration laws.
    

    Denis,
    
    The EC has magically transformed itself into a "Union". A consequence
    of this is internal open borders: in theory at least... Anyway, a
    consequence of this, is that all the member states have become very
    jittery about entry to the community; some have become *very* jittery.
    The main reason for this, is that an EC citizen has the right to live
    and work in *any* EC country. So, if an Irish passport is "easy" to
    obtain, therein lies a back door to life in say, Germany or France, two
    countries struggling with illegal immigration problems.
    
    Therefore, as part of the accord to "open" borders, each member country
    has had to agree to tighten up such things as passport issuance and
    external (to the community) border controls. In Ireland's case, stuff
    like Ollie North, and that bloke flogging them off for 3000 punt each,
    has made things stand out a little more, and as a consequence, Ireland
    is being more careful to be seen as whiter than white. This last is
    parphrased from a recent conversation with the Irish Embassy in
    Brussels.
    
    Laurie.

    Yes, Laurie, but what "change" took effect on 1 January 1994?
    

    The European Union came into being.
    
    Laurie.

    RE: .12  by PLAYER::BROWNL 
    
    >The European Union came into being.
    
    I guess I'm not making my question clear, Laurie.  Before the EC
    officially came into being, a person whose grandparent was born in
    Ireland could claim Irish citizenship.
    
    Has the Irish government changed this requirement subsequent to 1-Jan.?
    
    Has the EC changed the rules by which citizens of one member nation can
    work and reside in another member nation, or pass between borders?
    

    Ah! I see!
    
    No. not as far as I'm aware. However, as I said, member countries are
    now taking more care to see their individual rules aren't broken.
    
    Laurie.

    
    Just an update;
    
    Its almost impossible to get the Irish passport via ancestors unles you
    have all the paperwork going back to the birth certs of the people who
    were born in Ireland.  In the case I mentioned that is impossible
    (almost) as the guy doesn't even know what county his ancestors are
    from.
    
    Also, as was pointed out earlier, even if his Dad gets Irish
    citizenship, he can;t pass it on as he i getting it from
    grand-parents(or something like that).
    
    As to passport as a result of marriage.  It has to be a mimimum of 3
    years and requires a significant amount of paperwork, not unlike the US
    INS process.  It can take 6-9 months after application.
    
    This is info is based on long and tedious converstations with a
    non-helpful member of the Irish consulate in Boston.

    Having dealt with them before, those consulate people do have a bad
    attitude.  Very un-Irish isn't it? I don't know what their problem is. 
    I would be thrilled to have a job such as theirs, being able to see
    the world and get paid for it!  They're certainly not from Cork. ;v)

    
    
    The lady I spoke on all 3 occasions was definitely Irish and my guess
    is she had a Dublin city accent.
    
    In fact on 3rd occassion she asked me not to call her back unless I had
    more specifics that it was not her job to answer "hypothetical" or
    non-specific questions.
    
    I suppose most admin jobs do end up boring after an extended period ...
    

    My wife recently went through the process.  It took about 9 months of
    waiting on paperwork processing.
    
    Along the way we uncovered a family secret kept to her death by her
    paternal grandmother.
    
    Both of Rita's paternal grandparents were born in Ireland and Irish
    citizens.  For Rita to get her Irish citizenship, she had to prove
    Irish lineage, which required five documents:
    
       birth certificate of one of the grandparents,
       marriage certificate of her grandparents,
       birth certificate of one of their offspring, her dad,
       marraige certificate of her parents, and
       her own birth certificate.
    
    Comparison of the first two documents showed that her grandmother had
    "trimmed" five years off her age between the time she was born and the
    time she was married:
    
       "How old are ye, gal?"
       "Oh, I'm just a young, ah, 23!"
    
    Then by the time she had Rita's dad, she "trimmed" another 2 years off.
    
    -- Jim

The Government has resurrected the "passports-for-sale" controversy.  
  Last summer there was a row over Irish passports being issued to a 
  Middle-East family which invested in C&D Petfoods, the company owned 
  by the family of former Taoiseach Albert Reynolds.  This led to new 
  procedures for the issuing of passports being introduced.  Minister 
  for Justice Nora Owen has now promised a further review of the 
  procedures.