Conference tallis::celt

>Author:      KOALA::HOLOHAN     
>Number:      1293.0       Created: 04-Dec-1993 01:53pm           Replies: 0
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"I read in the Irish News that the UFF were disappointed there was only
>one casualty," I replied.  "They said they had intended to commit mass

That counts for nothing.  The Irish Press is so biased and full of 
propaganda due to Section 31 (see other note by Mark Holohan for more 
information) that we can safely discount the report as utter nonsense.


>united Ireland.  But a political rationale did not seem to motivate
>loyalist.  Smoke without a fire.

Oh give me a break.  The loyalists are playing the same game as the IRA. 
They can't be guaranteed what they want by democratic means so they use 
terror instead.


>  "Dirty rotters: they tried to kill us, so they did!"
>  "F---ing bastards!"

The IRA would never ever do that, would they ?



It's a very disturbing report.  No one likes to hear of anyone being shot 
at for whatever reason.  But if we were to catalogue every terrorist 
incident in Northern Ireland in this much detail, we'd quickly run out of 
disc space.  For example there were over 20 incidents in November 
involving the IRA alone. I would imagine that Loyalist terrorist incidents 
could double that total very easily.


Mark R.

    
    How is the Irish Press biased and full of propaganda? Bearing in mind
    that Mark H. mentioned the Irish News which is a Belfast paper while
    Section 31 is an act of the Dublin parliament.
    
    Denis.

Author:      ISEQ::DODONNELL     Going, going.......
Number:      1293.2       Created: 06-Dec-1993 08:46am           Replies: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    How is the Irish Press biased and full of propaganda? Bearing in mind
>    that Mark H. mentioned the Irish News which is a Belfast paper while
>    Section 31 is an act of the Dublin parliament.


Well if it's a British newspaper, it'll be even worse.  As everyone knows, 
the British press is just a propaganda-spouting puppet of the evil British 
regime.  Ask Mark Holohan, he'll tell you.

Mark R.

 re. .3

   Mark R., go back to sleep.
             
              Mark Holohan

    
    I'm not sure if the publishers of the Irish News would regard
    themselves as British. I'd still like to know why the Irish Press
    is full of propaganda.
    
    Denis.

    Denis, I believe MarkR, was referring to the Irish Press as Irish
    newspapers in general, not DeVelara's newspaper we all know and love.
    Perhaps this is the cause of your anguish.
    
    In 1290.3? you stated that section 31 only applied to the broadcast
    media. You don't have the text of Section 31 around by any chance. If
    it was posted here, we could perhaps clear up a lot of misunderstanding
    for our international and indeed, our indigeneous readers.
    
    Joe. 

    RE .0
    
    This is outrageous..  Scandalous ...
    
    It looks like (wait for it folks)  Mark H has published an article that
    suggests that terrorists are shooting at innocents.
    
    Well Mark H.  Lets apply your logic.  This must have been an accidental
    targeting of innocent civilians.  Or the paper is merely a puppet of
    the British Goverment,  and is therfore printing blatant untruths.
    
    Lets face it guys before we know where we are they'll be ptutting bombs
    in dustbins in the middle of shopping centres.
    
    So Mark (or should I call you Mr Credibilty problem)  What answer are
    you going to give us.
    
    
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce.
    
    Oh Mark.  You also forgot to apologise for your appaling grammar in
    one of your other notes.  Still post it when you remember the name of the
    politician.
                                           

Look guys,

I don't know a goddam thing about Section 31 and quite frankly I don't 
care.  My replies were merely using irony to highlight the point that when 
anyone without the initials "MH" refers to the written or broadcast media, 
it is immediately branded as "propaganda".  However, when Mr Holohan quotes 
the media, it's like Moses and his tablets of stone all over again.

Question : Does the validity of the media resident in the Islands to the 
	   West of Europe depend upon from which side of the Atlantic you 
	   are reading it ?   From the various teachings of Chairman 
  	   Holohan, it would appear so.



Oh by the way Mark H.  You tell me to go back to sleep.  How very 
thoughtful.  I knew I could rely on you to reply to a note which doesn't 
conform to your very narrow view of life.


Mark R.

On the subject of the UFF...

Yesterday they (or was it the UVF?) killed a taxi driver and his 15 yr old 
passanger.  No motive.  No reason.  Just the usual senseless slaughter.  

I dread to think what would have happened if these psychos had managed to 
get their �250K ($375K) shipment of arms.  Of course, if people would stop 
sending money to the terrorists of both sides, a lot of this wouldn't 
happen in the first place.

Mark R.

    Mark (R), don't forget that on one side the terrorists are funded by a
    a government. The other side is funded by a pitance, donated by the
    outraged public and barely covers the damage and discomfort excuted on
    them by satanical governmental forces.
    
    
    Simon

    
    I don't have the wording of Section 31. However as I have said before
    it applies to Broadcast media only. Some news papers have carried
    interviews with Gerry Adams. The Irish Press (DeValera's paper) has
    a natiionalist bias just like the Belfast Newsletter has a unionist
    bias but it is not an organ for propaganda. If you want read a
    newspaper with propaganda just buy the Sunday Independant.
    
    Denis.

 re. .7
   The UDA (UFF and UVF) through their own admition,
 intentionally target innocent Catholic civilians.
 Their self-admitted goals is one of terrorizing the
 native Catholic population.  

 "Oh Mark.  You also forgot to apologise for your 
  appaling grammar in ..."

  I believe the word is appalling, and I'm terribly
  sorry if I utilized poor grammar and confused you.
  Would pictures make it easier for you next time?

 re. .8
   The validity of the media has a lot to do with
  who writes it, and who controls what is written.
  For example, I place a lot of faith in the independent
  reports by Amnesty International, and Helsinki Watch.
  I place about zero faith in a British government
  press release, and am very cautious of Reuters.
  Experience has shown that the British government and
  their press have a nasty habit of lying, so I tend
  to place less credibility in what they report.


                           Mark

    OK, Mark,
    
    here's a piece I lifted from the Irish Emigrant, yesterday, which
    reports the results of an Irish Times/Coopers & Lybrand  poll. The
    Irish Times may be many things, but it is not the instrument of the
    British Government:
    
    From the Irish Emigrant, 6-Dec-1993
        - An Irish Times/Coopers and Lybrand opinion poll tested the views
    of the people of the North on their most favoured future political
    structure.  A local power-sharing parliament within the UK was the
    most popular preference with 25.7% support.  Other options were:
    full integration with Britain - 21.2%, joint authority from Britain
    and Ireland - 17.8%, a united Ireland - 14.7%, majority rule at
    Stormont - 12.5%, and an independent state - 8.1%.  Only 32% of Catholics
    put a united Ireland as their first preference.
    
    ------ End of Transcript-----
     
    Perhaps you may like to ponder this awhile, Mark. What it says to me is
    that, most people in the North are more worried about their economic
    well-being than their political status, as remaining in the UK gives
    them lower income tax, auto tax and a more comprehensive health service. 
    And if people like you, put as much energy into trying to get economic 
    growth going in the North, rather than nurturing hatred, you'd acheive 
    your aims a lot quicker.
    
    Joe.

    Mark H
    
    Please Please Please draw me some pictures. By the way Mark Mine was a
    spelling error not a Grammatical error.  Also If my memory (wich unlike
    your selective one) tells me you in fact were the original critic of
    other peoples grammar in this notes stream.
    
    Mark,  Once again you forgot to post the name of the politician..  I
    know you told us all you forgot.  I know that you have been reminded
    daily for the past week.  Please oh please try and remember to bring in
    with you tommorow.  Wrap your crayons and colouring book up in it.
    
    Oh and Mark.  Please hurry up and publish some more funny stories. 
    You know of the land where only one side is right and good but never
    prospers.  Where nasty people with big guns only ever shoot at the ggod
    guys.  Perhaps Mark you are just starting to learn.  John Wayne won't
    win you this one.
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce
    
    Don't you just know what Holoheads pictures would look like.  Men in
    Black Hoods with Halos.  Angels flying overhead with Bazookas.

re. .13

  I don't see how economic support of the British state
  in north east Ireland would force the British government
  to stop censoring political parties, or violating
  the human rights of nationalists, or colluding with
  loyalist terrorists, or holding jury-less trials.


  Perhaps you do?

                  Mark


 

    Well, Mark, that last note just proves how divorced from the reality of
    the situation you really are.
    
    Joe.

 re. .16

  That's a new one, concern for human rights, censorship,
  and British collusion equate to blind hatred.
  Is a concern for justice something that you interpret
  as hatred?  With your logic, kickin someone in the
  teeth would equate to love.

                       Mark

    Mark you still hav'nt given your opinion on the fact that less than a
    third of Catholics in the North, preferred the option of a united
    Ireland. That kinda blows a hole in your genocide theories.
    
    Joe.

    Joe
    
    You surely have noticed.  That Mark will never ever reply to a question
    if it means he has to admit to the IRA getting it wrong.
    
    This now extends to Mark forgetting the names of Politicians.  OR Mark
    not wishing to discuss his CELTIC Heritage.  
    
    You have to remember when dealing with Mark you are dealing with an
    English American who hates the Country of his birth and all who read
    the newspapers there.
    
    Try reading Marks notes on IRA misdeeds.  You'll search all night.  You
    see Joe in Marks world only people who are not members of the IRA do
    wrong.
    
    
    Bruce

    
    re. .18
    
    Joe,
      For starters, polls can be slanted.  Who was canvassed for
    this poll, the folks in Shankill?  I could take a poll in Divis,
    or Ballymurphy and show you a different story.
      A better judge of opinions would be a national referendum for
    the people of Ireland. After all, it is their Island, why not let
    the Irish decide, all of them.
      Most importantly, what policy will stop the British from practicing
    there human rights violations.  Since they've done this since they've
    had their hands in Ireland, I'd suggest that it's time for them to
    take their hands off.  Anything else is really just support for the
    status quo.  
               
                            Mark
      

    Re.<<< Note 1293.14 by YUPPY::MILLARB >>>
    >
    >Mark,  Once again you forgot to post the name of the politician..  I
    >know you told us all you forgot.  
    
    This is getting a bit boring. Haven't *you* ever forgotten someone's
    name ?
    
    >Oh and Mark.  Please hurry up and publish some more funny stories. 
    I hope you're not refering to the base note as 'funny', are you?
    
    
    Tony.

>      A better judge of opinions would be a national referendum for
>    the people of Ireland. After all, it is their Island, why not let
>    the Irish decide, all of them.


So by definition, the next referendum for Scottish independance should be 
conducted in England and Wales as well.  I think your logic has one or two 
minor defects - Try again. 



MR

    Re .20
    
    Mark,
    
    What a pathetic attempt at discrediting this poll. I don't think you'd
    find too many people in Ireland who would accuse the Irish Times of
    slanting such a poll. You really don't know what you're talking about,
    do you?
    
    I'm afraid you'd be bitterly disappointed by a national poll. In my
    opinion I don't think too many people in Ireland would relish the
    thought of engulfing the loyalist community under the current
    circumstances or anything like them. For one thing, the country
    could'nt afford it, when you look at it in the cold light of day. Not to
    mention the "security" issues, implied or otherwise. Unfortunately the
    vast majority of Irish people do not want what's going on in the North
    spreading to the rest of the country. This is why a British pull-out
    without peace is extremely unlikely. So you see the IRA are caught in
    a Catch 22.
    
    >>Most importantly, what policy will stop the British from practicing
    >>there human rights violations.  Since they've done this since they've
    >>had their hands in Ireland, I'd suggest that it's time for them to
    >>take their hands off.  Anything else is really just support for the
    >>status quo.
    
    So your solution is that the British Army pull out, so that the IRA and
    the Loyalist paramilitaries can have a right go at each other. Sounds like
    what happened in Yugoslavia to me, as soon as the central power
    collapsed the factions turned the place into hell on earth. Well I just
    hope you don't get your way.
    
    Joe.

    
    Won't be him that suffers either way..

That poll made interesting reading. I think Joes point that most people in
the north are less worried about their political status is very true..and that
goes across the board. Certainly goals have changed in the past years...even
if they are only now been acknowledged as realism sets in.

Reality IS setting in somewhat. The republican movement are becoming more
aware that "British out - peace in" is no longer a realistic...nor indeed
true reflection on the situation. Look at whats been happening in last 2-3 + 
months re talks official or unoffical. 

No mistake British withdrawal is no longer a pre-requiste for the IRA to
cease violence. Nor does quoting past events..no matter how painful they are
One can get 100 reasons to counter argue against any specific event that has 
happened in NI over last 20 years...and if you run out you can go back a 
few centuries to keep you talking...

The flexibility defined or undefined that the republicans will/can give is
scaring the Unionist community..Political status of NI is one level above 
Civil administration and ground security control..where the power on the ground 
really is...and where any "settlement" can really be tested....Not on anyones
pledge to a flag or to existing constitutional articles. Unionist politicians
don't know who if anybody they can trust and no longer can singularly identify
the greatest threat to their existence. They will have to come off the fence
and start talking to all parties. Whats frigtening is the incitement that
a number of politicians have been allowed to get away with it..

The southern Irish government also has to do us all a favor and even if it
can't directly help in the economic sense (help us ..again..the EEC!) then its
can help alot in taking us away from the draconian laws we have here on certain
social issues..

    rgs,
    
    Mick

 re. .22
  Not necessarily.  Ireland was a seperate independent
  nation before the British invaded. 

  
 re. .23
  I'm not attempting to descredit the poll, I just
  pointed out that polls may not necessarily show
  valid public opinion.  I only questioned it, as I've
  seen plenty of polls that tend to reflect the 
  opinions of the Marketeers, not necessarily the
  real world.
  I also pointed out that a better judge would be
  an all nation referendum.  You are entitled to your
  opinion, but it is not the only Irish opinion.

  You talk of the country, not being able to "afford it".
  I ask you, how can they afford not to?  Are you 
  seriously willing to sacrifice so many of your
  countrymen, year after year on the alter of British
  occupation?  If the British agreed to pull-out eventually,
  started to allay loyalist fears (as opposed to playing
  into them), stopped colluding with loyalist terror
  gangs, and stopped violating human rights, then peace
  would be possible.

  Did it also ever occur to you, that a United nation
  might be a stronger nation, both politicaly and
  economically?  Perhaps a stronger economic nation would
  not have to hemorrage its' best and brightest as it
  currently does.

  In any event, it's up to the Irish people living on
  the island, all of them to decide.

                         Mark

 re. .25
  Mick,
     I agree with a lot of what you said.  It's true that a
  hungry man's politics is one of how best to feed his family.
  I don't agree that it's wrong to quote past events, whether
  they were 2 days, or 20 years ago.  It's important for people
  to know what is going on, in order to make an informed
  decision.  This isn't saying they should live only for these
  events, but they should be aware of them when they try best
  to decide on their future.

                   Mark

    Re .25
    
    Thanks, Mick for a very good round-up of the way things HAVE changed
    particularly in the past few years. I think you've made the points well
    so I won't repeat them here. I must say that I also am dismayed at what
    Unionist politicians utter in public, which are mere rabble rousing,
    and are a huge impediment to getting real peace talks going.
    
    Re .26
    
    >>  Ireland was a seperate independent nation before the British invaded.
     
    When exactly was this. Ireland before the Normans was a patchwork of
    kingdoms and was only united (a better word would be subjugated)
    briefly under Brian Boru. In fact the Normans under Strongbow were
    invited into the country by a Leinster king, who's daughter he married, 
    to help him battle his enemies. His name escapes me at the moment.
    Independant, maybe, but independance in a feudal society hardly
    counts, as the vast majority of people were not free in the modern
    sense.
    
    >>  You talk of the country, not being able to "afford it".
    >>  I ask you, how can they afford not to?  Are you
    >>  seriously willing to sacrifice so many of your
    >>  countrymen, year after year on the alter of British
    >>  occupation?  If the British agreed to pull-out eventually,
    >>  started to allay loyalist fears (as opposed to playing
    >>  into them), stopped colluding with loyalist terror
    >>  gangs, and stopped violating human rights, then peace
    >>  would be possible.
    
    Most people in the Republic don't see it this way. They see random acts of 
    violence perpetrated for, to them, senseless reasons and they don't want it
    brought to their part of the country. The IRA have done nothing to
    instill a sense of brotherhood between the people of the south and the
    Nationalist community of the north. Sorry if this does'nt fit in your
    world view, but that's the way it is.
    
    It has occurred to me that a united Ireland would be a stronger, more
    coherent economic unit, but not if a large minority wanted no part of
    it and would organize on terrorist lines to break away, as would surely
    happen if the Unionists were forced into a United Ireland. That
    scenario would be the death knell of peace in Ireland for all the
    country. What hope for the economy then.
    
    Joe.

    re a few back.
    
    The Leinster king who brought Strongbow and his Normans to Ireland was
    Diarmuid MacMurrough. To tell the whole truth, he was also following a
    supposed Papal edict that the Irish church be sorted out. Either way
    Strongbow spoke French and hardly thought of himself as English.
    
    Joe.

Gunmen fire rockets, rifle at Sinn Fein center in Belfast
   BELFAST, Northern Ireland, March 29 (UPI) -- Protestant
 paramilitaries attacked an office of the political wing of the
 Irish Republican Army Tuesday, damaging the building with
 rockets and automatic gunfire but causing no casualties.
   The Royal Ulster Constabulary said the incident occurred
 about 11:10 a.m. at the Sinn Fein center on the Falls Road in
 Belfast. A number of men got out of a dark-colored Austin
 Montego automobile on Leeson Sreet near the Sinn Fein office
 and opened fire, police said.
   One man fired a "rocket device" at the building, an RUC
 spokesman said. A second opened fire with an automatic
 weapon, he said. There were no casalties from the attack, but
 the building was damaged slightly.
   Police said a stolen vehicle was used in the attack and it
 was later found abandoned.
   The Ulster Freedom fighters were later reported to have
 claimed responsibility for the attack.
   The attack on the Sinn Fein center comes amid continuing
 efforts to persuade the organization to accept the Anglo-Irish
 peace initiative. The initiative would allow Sinn Fein to
 participate in multiparty talks on the future of Northern Ireland
 in exchange for a renunciation of violence by the Irish
 Republican Army.
   The Irish government denied Tuesday it was engaged in
 direct contact with the IRA or Sinn Fein over the Anglo-Irish
 peace process. But a spokesman in Dublin admitted there
 were ongoing "indirect" contacts with the militant republican
 movement.
   Government spokesman Sean Duignan was responding to
 remarks made Monday by Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams,
 who told British Broadcasting Corp. television in Belfast that
 there had been contacts between his party and Dublin over the
 Anglo-Irish Joint Declaration signed Dec. 15 by Britain and
 Ireland.
   "We have a contact with the Dublin government. I have never
 talked about the mechanism involved and I will not do so now,"
 Adams said in the interview.
   "I think that there is a common sense approach, a logical
 approach, being taken by (Irish Prime Minister) Mr. (Albert)
 Reynolds, and no one suggests that he has been negotiating
 with us, because he has not," said Adams.
   In Dublin Tuesday, Duignan said there was no direct contact
 with the republican movement, but that there had been indirect
 contacts through a series of intermediaries, including
 members of the Catholic Church.
   "We have never denied that there have been indirect
 intermediaries. There has been a continuous flow of people
 going back and forth, carrying reports and clarification on the
 Downing Street Declaration. We are not going to identify who
 those intermediaries are. It's a gray area," Duignan said.

from An Phoblacht/Repubican News
April 9, 1994


UDA threats follow shootings

IN A SERIES OF ATTACKS carried out on Six County nationalists, loyalist killer
gangs have given their answer to the Irish peace process. Threatening to
continue their attacks on nationalists the pro-British death squads have said
''we wish to state that we care little for the pan-nationalist peace process
or PIRA's pathetic ceasefire. Their road-to-Dublin process or their price for
peace is not acceptable''.

Three Coalisland men were targeted in a vicious sectarian murder bid last
Thursday morning, 31 March. A single UDA assassin opened fire on their van
which was parked on the Braniel estate. Two of the occupants were hit in the
hail of gunfire. One was seriously injured, suffering chest wounds, while the
other was hit in the arm and face. The third man managed to crawl to a nearby
house and raise the alarm. Claiming responsibility for the shooting, the UDA
warned that it would continue its violence against the nationalist community
''regardless of the IRA's response to the Downing Street Declaration''.

The three were contracted to fix roofing tiles on the estate, and had been
there for several weeks. Sticking to a predictable schedule the three workers
were easy targets for loyalists. A worker, Leonard Fox from Lurgan, was killed
on the nearby loyalist Ballybean estate in a similar incident several years
ago.

A Catholic man was rushed to Antrim area Hospital early on Thursday morning,
31 March, after he was shot in a house in the predominantly loyalist Steeple
Estate by a sectarian gang.

The man was in a house at Tobergill Gardens early on Thursday morning when two
masked assailants burst into the house and shot him in the chest, stomach and
leg as he slept. The UVF later said that they shot the man but claimed it was
a case of mistaken identity.

However, friends of the man maintained that the attack was a ''straightforward
attempt to kill a Catholic''. This is the third sectarian gun attack carried
out by loyalists in Antrim so far this year.

Loyalists targeted a Hibernian social club in Lisburn, County Antrim, on
Sunday night, 3 April, when they placed an elaborate hoax bomb outside the
premises. Patrons were forced to vacate the premises while the suspect device
was dealt with.

In a second attack over the weekend a Catholic women in the town had two shots
fired through her kitchen window. The woman who was alone in the house when
the attack happened, was taken to hospital suffering from shock.
Meanwhile, in Craigavon a Catholic family had a lucky escape when loyalists
used an explosive device to fire a ball bearing through the front window of
their house. The attack occurred on Monday evening, 4 April.

    No Mention of the IRA Attacks Mark H.  Perhaps your going to post these
    tommorow ?????????????????????????

  LONDON, April 11 (UPI) -- Eleven people were treated for
 shock and minor injuries after two bomb attacks on homes in
 Catholic areas of west Belfast, police said Monday.
   In the first attack, at 10:30 p.m. Sunday, a bomb was thrown
 through a window into a room of a house in the Poleglass
 district, slightly injuring a couple and their 7-month-old baby.
   The second bombing took place at 11:20 p.m. and also
 targeted a home in a Catholic area. The couple living in the
 house and their six children, aged three to 14, were treated for
 shock.

    Yet another un-biased Hohlohan new article.  In the next note Mark H
    will probably post an article relating to an IRA attack NOT.

    ::MILLARB
    
    Have you seen the title for this note? It is only UFF related attacks
    that are being discussed here. Also do you feel compelled to make snide
    remarks every time that MH enters a note? If you don't like what he
    writes hit <NEXT UNSEEN>.
    
    Gerry

    
    Nonetheless he has a point..
    

    re.35
    
    What prey tell me is "snide" about my "remarks" that offends you so
    much. ??
    
    As has been discussed at great lengths in here previously,  MH enters
    his stories under any topic at any time.  Simply hitting next unseen
    would not solve the problem.
    
    Perhaps if you or MH were to start an IRA Attacks note it would solve
    your problem.
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce

    I have no interest in starting an IRA attacks note. I also recall many
    noters in here complaining about MH starting new topics all over the
    place. Now you are encouraging him to do so.
    
    My point regarding your replies is that you are asking MH to discuss
    (for want of a better word) something unrelated to the topic at hand.
    You are using childish and snide remarks to do so (in my opinion). It
    seems to me that it is you who should start the new topic since you are
    so interested in discussing it.
    
    Gerry
    
    

    
 >   My point regarding your replies is that you are asking MH to discuss
 >   (for want of a better word) something unrelated to the topic at hand.
  
     Well it's never stopped him before.
    
    
     The UFF killed the wife of a Sinn Fein member last night,they smashed
    a window then shoot into the house  
    
    SCott
    

    George
    
    I'm puzzled as to why you set my reply to Gerry hidden.  I see no
    insults or abuse in it.  This was a thought out and reasoned response
    which was polite in it's content and certainly not offensive.  Indeed
    it starts off with an apology to all in this conference !!
    
    I can, as others will, only assume that you're desire to censor topics
    that do not agree with you're view has resulted in my note being
    hidden.
    
    You're earlier statements regarding libelous notes being set hidden
    would carry more weight if perhaps you applied them to notes with
    titles like "Terrorist Ian Paisley speaks".  Certainly my freind who
    unfortunately goes under the name of Ian Paisley but is not Irish or a
    politician or indeed a terrorist feels somewhat agrieved that this
    notes file allows him to be described as a Terrorist.
    
    So come on George.  Why was my note set hidden. ???
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce 

    
    Expect -1 to disappear too

    RE: .42  by YUPPY::MILLARB 
    
    >Certainly my freind who unfortunately goes under the name of Ian
    >Paisley but is not Irish or a politician or indeed a terrorist 
    
    And here all this time I thought Paisley was a prints.
    

    Bruce, 
    
    I set 1293.40 hidden because of the following phrases:
    
    1. "...and we are dealing with an individual capable of reasoned
    argument."
   
    2. "However reasoned argument is not something that MH posseses."
    
    /George
    

    Mark,
    
    I set 1293.41 hidden because of the following phrases:
    
    "What you are Bruce is an idiot.  The only way you'll
    ever be enlightened is from a two-by-four."
    
    /George  

    re   .45

    Seems pretty weak to me considering .2 to spot on.


    SCott

    Bruce,
    
    Too bad I didn't get to read your reply. Perhaps you could mail it to
    me and  can then see for myself what you had to say.
    
    Gerry

    George
    
    Us CELTS call it Four by Two.  Nice to see that reasoned argument
    creeping in again though :*)
    
    I still say George you should have let my note stay open.  The fact
    that the lunatic fringe dispute reason is no reason to set things
    hidden.
    
    Have fun boys, with your two by fours.
    
    Regards
    Bruce
    
    

    I have a better idea. Why don't you guys set up a
    IRA/UDA/UFF mailing list, and send each other mail
    directly (avoid the middleman!) and it will save me
    the effort and time trying to moderate things here.
    
    It's a win-win situation. You'll get faster response
    time (notes network links can be slow), you can mail
    to non-digital people over the internet (gerry and
    ian and liz have laptops), and you can transmit zip
    encoded multimedia too (i.e. gif files of saracens).
    
    Please don't reply to this entry.  I'm setting this
    topic /nowrite.  Have a nice weekend.
     
    /george