Conference tallis::celt

    He was a lot better than the previous incumbent, who was very
    conservative, rich, and distant from his flock.
    
    I grew up under the influence of Dr Brown, Caseys predecessor, and
    found the contrast astounding. Eamonn Casey made religion seem REAL in
    a human way that Brown could never achieve.
     
    THe danger is that we may now get a conservative, bible thumping old
    goat instead and drive more young people from religion and the church
    as they are not prepared to be lectured to like in the old days.
    

    
    Are you serious ?, whats the real scoop, or will we have to wait for
    the Sunday world to give all the story ++++ a bit more ?.
    
    Eamon was always a wild man, so to speak, but if .1 is for real, surely
    he had hardly expected to get away with it.
    
    Any idea what 'new ventures' he will take on ?
    

    Eamon was a great Bishop.   He helped the poor in many ways.
    He is sadily going to be missed.   It is a pity he has to pay
    for one silly mistake.   The unfortunate part is, he will be
    remembered for this mistake and all the good he did will be
    forgotten.
    
    In answer to your second question, he is joining the missionary
    service, well according to the news, it is of his own choice.
    
    
    Bernie

    
    It IS a pity about Eamon Casey. Among the Irish bishops he really
    stood out. Not that he was a great liberal or anything (he wasn't)
    but he was a genuinely nice man whom you could warm to as a person
    no matter what. What was particularly admirable about him was his
    work on behalf of the Underdeveloped World and for the poor in
    Ireland.
    
    By his own account, he wants to devote his life to "the missions"
    which means Africa or Latin America.
    
    On the down side, the "Irish Times" is reporting payments of 
    large sums to a lady in Connecticut over the last 15 years - 
    a lady with a child. There are reports of impending litigation, with 
    lawyers in the U.S. and Ireland involved. This is very sad and
    unfortunate, but Bishop Casey will have to explain where this
    money came from, if such a thing happened. His statement this
    morning told us nothing except that he was resigning "for
    personal reasons".
    
    A terrible thing to happen at this time from the point of view
    of the bishops, just as they are setting out to do some whacking
    with the croziers when the referendums come up on abortion and
    divorce.
    
    Toby

    Also, side by side with the Bishop story on todays Irish Independant is the 
    news that Patrick Ryan,ex Pallotine Priest and 
    former candidate for Sinn F�in in the European
    Parliament elections and wanted for questioning in Britain, was
    arrested under section 30 of the Offences against the State Act.
    He can be held for 48 hours without charge and up to 7 days on the
    signature of a judge. This coincides with huge arms finds in the South
    of the country.  Not a Good Day for Holy Mother Church and the Truth as 
    She Knows It.
    

    If priests in the Catholic Church were allowed to marry and not live a
    "sheltered" life then maybe we wouldn't have these scandals and maybe
    they would see life from the other side and support divorce!!!!
    
    After all Bsp. Casey was able to support a "family" and do some great
    work!!
    
    Therese

    
    I agree, but what is interesting is that Mr Casey  was not a supporter
    of divorce and in fact was almost of the opposite side of the fence
    when it came to all similar situations.
    
    I had always thought he was a valuable contributor to society and I
    respected his view, as I assumed he lived by it ....... obviously that
    was not the case.
    
    Any ideas on who will be the new man ( or woman ) to lead West ?
    

AHH! Gerry.

But sure it could happen to a bishop!!


You mean it did!!

    
    The woman in the case has come forward and was interviewed twice
    on radio today. She is Anne Murphy of Richfield, Connecticut, with
    a son Peter. She met Eamonn Casey in the mid-70's on coming
    to Ireland after a painful divorce. He was a friend of the family, 
    and the affair seems to have begun almost immediately after she
    arrived here. Their relationship lasted 18 months and fell apart
    after she became pregnant. He wanted her to give up the child
    for adoption, she refused. The baby was born in Dublin, and she 
    returned to the USA with her son. There seems to have been
    constant bickering over support for the child, but he did 
    give her money - $115,000 at one stage.
    
    I have no problem with Ms Murphy being interviewed, but I was
    apalled to hear her 17-year old son being interviewed also.
    He is certainly an innocent party and should have been left
    out of the publicity. I was so disgusted I turned the radio
    off.
    
    Last we heard Bishop Casey has left for the USA. There is 
    an outpuoring of support - nuns critising the celibacy rule
    of the church etc. There has been a call for him to return
    by priests and nuns here in Galway. Looks like they are waking 
    up to how unrealistic the rules are! Doubtful if the hierarchy
    will approve though.
    
    Toby

    <<Looks like they are waking up to how unrealistic the rules are! 
    <<Doubtful if the hierarchy will approve though.
    
    Right on, Toby.  My brother, a priest for twenty-six years in the Order
    of Mary Immaculate (known as the Oblates in Canada), has constantly
    held the belief that some day in his lifetime he will be permitted to
    disavow celibacy.  Although he is a free-wheeling spirit and a bit of a
    rake with not a few female admirers, I have never doubted his ability to
    maintain his vows - trying as they are!
    
    He has devoted most of his priesthood to missions in Labrador among
    Native Canadians, but has just recently returned to the temptations of
    the 'south'.  He, and I suspect a great many of the clergy, believe
    that the only way to bring about change is through the Curia in Rome. 
    Without change amongst that band of fossilised bureaucrats, the status
    quo will remain.
    
    My 2p worth,
    
    Pat
    
    

    I may have missed this earlier, but exactly why did he decide to resign
    at this stage? Was it because the lady in question was about to blow the 
    whistle, or because he had enough of the deception, or was there some other
    reason? 
    
    The Thornbirds was never as good as this!
    
    Gerry
    
    

    RE: .8  You're bad Martin!  ;v)
    
    How much of that $115,000 came from moneys  donated to "Trocaire"?
    
    /G

    This is amazing !
    
    This guy has SEX with a DIVORCED woman and has an ILLEGITIMATE son,
    then LIES about it. He then leaves the woman to bring up a child on her
    own and lets the kid grow up without a father. Absolute SCUM !
    
    Everything the church preaches against, this guy did. After that he
    stands up on the pulpit week after week and tells people how to live
    their life. He tells people not to get divorced (he obviously doesn't
    mind the odd divorcee himself), not to use contraception (a man of his
    words, uh?) and to stay together as a family etc.
    
    The catholic church then twists the whole story around and gets people
    talking about 'the poor priests' and their voluntary vow of celibacy.
    The debate should be about how the clergy have said one thing and did
    the opposite and about how they should not be trusted. They have been
    treated like gods in Ireland over the years, obeyed without question by
    large portions of the population. 
    
    I wonder how many more renegade priests will come out of the woodwork now.
    
    
    Personally I say, "Ban the Bastards".
    
    
    Tony.
    
    

    
    As the story become clearer, I think many people are realising the
    great wrong that Bishop Casey did to this woman and her son. What
    is worse from the Church's point of view is the obvious fact that
    numerous priests and nuns joined with Casey in trying to persuade
    her to giving up her child, and later in helping him cover up the
    truth.
    
    One can still admire Casey for his good work and look mildly on
    a weakness for sexual dalliance. But the woman was sent to 
    him to be looked after. She was low in self-esteem after a bitter
    divorce. He abused her family's trust, enjoyed his fling while
    he could, but dropped her when things got rough. A classic
    case! He then dodged his responsibilities for seventeen years,
    meanwhile preaching about the need for families to stick together
    in particular telling women how to order their lives.
    
    While preaching at us to have "a sense of responsibility" when
    it came to sexuality, he felt it o.k. to shrug off his own 
    responsibilities so that he could continue his career. 
    Certainly he deserved to be exposed for what he was.
    
    Now again when things are rough, he flits it to South America 
    without a word of self-explanation or apology to the people
    of Galway. While allowing for human weakness, I think he is
    being let off pretty lightly.
    
    Toby
    
    

    
    What brought things to a head was the determination of the son,
    Peter, to "blow the whistle" on Casey. They met last year and
    (according to the son), Casey was cool and distant. He went
    to another room, from which a priest later emerged to ask the
    boy to sign a document pledging never to bother Bishop Casey
    again. [Dubious note: even if he signed it would not have
    been legally binding because he was a minor].
    
    In any event, the rejection by his father festered, and this
    year he told his mother he was going to go public. She decided
    to do so, and spare him the pain. Seeing him in "sound bites"
    on T.V. he seems a quite mature and strong individual, and you 
    could easily see him going through with it. The man who is
    now living with Annie Murphy rang the "Irish Times" in Dublin,
    who sent their American correspondent to Ridgefield, to view
    the evidence. They (rightly) decided that the illegimate son
    was not a legitimate story, but that the payments were, and
    started asking questions accordingly.
    
    Ms Murphy also rang Casey and told him what was going on. She
    also told him that, unknown to him, Peter and a friend had
    video'd a meeting between them some years ago. This seems to
    have precipitated his resignation.
    
    Toby

    So where does this leave everyone??
    
    I think Bishop Casey has suffered enough, or at least will suffer
    enough.
    
    The money - where did it come from. If it was filtered from donations
    to the church then it was stolen. The woman may have received $115,000
    of stolen money. Where else did she expect him to get the money????
    
    My guest is that the son was bothering him for more money and he
    refused hence the "going public". Nobody gains anything from it!! Or
    maybe they thought they would.
    
    He's not the first priest to get into such a situation. I know of one
    who married the woman in the same circumstances. Now even though he has
    a B.A H.Dip he finds it difficult to find a job. He did the decent
    thing by marrying the woman but where does it get him?? Hypocrites!!!
    
    He's shunned and spoken about by all who know of his past!!!
    

    I just read that the bishop was with this woman for 18 months.
    Asuming they were having sex on a regular basis and she only got
    pregnant once he/they must have been using contraceptives (yep, I've
    got a degree in gynacology too). This only adds to his 'crimes' !
    What a bastard. He's shacked up with this girl while he's a bishop !
    A ripper of a story. Can you imagine him getting up out of their bed
    every sunday morning, going to the church and telling all those good
    catholics to behave themselves. Amazing.
    
    This must be a great time to be in Ireland. The papers must be having a
    field day. I can imagine the front of the Sunday Worst yesterday,
    		"Bishop caught with pants down" or something similar.
    
    I think that the church will be very quite when the debate hots up
    about divorce and abortion.
    
    I must say I'm amazed ! I never had much time for the church and it's
    brainwashing, sorry, teachings and I never trusted the clergy but this
    astounded me. I'm sitting here 20,000klms away in utter amazement !
    
    Way to go Bishop casey ! You Beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuty !
    

    
     Don't see what the hullabaloo is all about.  This sort of thing
    happens, has been happening since the inception of the Church.
    I wouldn't be too hard on a man who's done his best for folks, yet
    in the end succumbs to the same human weakness to which almost ALL
    of us succumb.
    
     After all, he's not a rapist or an embezzler or a child-molester
    or a thief.  Just a man who had sex, albeit against *CHURCH* law,
    with a consenting woman who must assume her own amount of 
    responsibility.
    
     Anyway...although I see a benefit in maintaining celibacy among the
    priesthood, I also see a perhaps greater evil in it; that being not
    just the sexual part, but the isolation that is endured by those in
    the priesthood that may just be more than can be expected of a normal
    man, without having him resort to darker urges.
    
    Frank
     

    re. .18
    
    >I wouldn't be too hard on a man who's done his best for folks, yet
    >in the end succumbs to the same human weakness to which almost ALL
    >of us succumb.
    
    You're right of course Frank. I'm sure he has done some very good
    things in his life and the noters from Galway will back this up. My
    problem with the scumbag is his HYPOCRISY. He will preach one thing and
    practice the opposite.
    
    > After all, he's not a rapist or an embezzler or a child-molester
    >or a thief.  
    
    We have yet to find out where he got the dosh to keep buy the woman's
    silence.
    
    > Anyway...although I see a benefit in maintaining celibacy among the
    >priesthood.........
    
    I don't see the same benefit. What is it?
    
    If priests want to remain celibate then that's their right. But if they
    want to retain any credibility with the church-going people they should
    remain true to their professed beliefs.
    
    Tony.
    
    P.S. Have they started making the movie yet ?
         Anybody got any suitable names for it ?
    	 - Bishop bonks Betty ???????? uh ?
    
    

    RE Celibacy
    
    Apparently celibacy was introduced to the Catholic Church originally as
    a cost saving measure back in the 11th or 12th century. It was
    considered less expensive  to keep single priests than whole families. 
    That is the only advantage I can come up with.
    
    Gerry   

    
    re .19
    
     I feel, along with Aquinas, that there CAN BE a much greater sense
    of accord with spiritual principles by denying oneself such intensely
    HUMAN urges as sexuality, by fasting, by isolation from the community
    of people.  But I also feel that such spiritual rigor will truly only 
    benefit the extraordinary individual.  What might have been appropriate 
    for the Ascetic vision of the Middle Ages is probably inappropriate for
    the needs of modern man, including the most well-intentioned priest.
    
     And just by-the-by, where is the responsibility of the woman in this
    affair?  She consented to the sexual act and therefore bears equal
    responsibility for the result.  What does the woman or the child want
    from this affair?  What do they hope to gain in besmirching the bishop
    at this late date?  I think it might be worthwhile to ponder their
    motives.
    
    Thanks
    
    
    

    
    Answers to some of the above questions:
    
    "Where did she expect him to get the money?"
    
    That was not her problem, she just had a hungry little mouth to
    feed. According to her, Bishop Casey had both a Merc and a Lancia,
    and was fond of good food and drink. Was she supposed to let him
    be so that he could keep up his public image? He OWED support
    for the child, not just $$$$ but presence and love as well.
    If publicity would lose his bishopric, he could just go and try 
    to get a job like the rest of us.
    
    Toby

    What is the responsibility of the woman?
    
    I would say that Annie Murphy bore her responsibilities bravely,
    and great credit to her. She could have given up her baby for
    adoption but she resisted the bullying of Casey and his henchmen,
    and refused. It's a contrast to the moral cowardice shown by 
    the Bishop, from whom one expects good example. She brought
    up her child alone for many years, while he ignored them except
    for the money he sent.
    
    What did they hope to gain at this stage?
    
    It is the son, Peter, who seems to hurt the most at this stage. He
    has been rejected by his father and feels the pain of that. Being
    young he wants to hit back, or maybe he has the notion that the
    Bishop can start being a real father when he has no public image
    to protect. Money doesn't seem to be an issue any more, though 
    they are not well off. Self-respect and not living a lie any more
    may have something to do with it.
    
    Of course, now that it is in the open, they have a good opportunity
    to make money. She is to write a book, and a TV film is to be made.
    She has made many TV appearances, and more will follow in the US.
    Good stuff, say I, it may make up in a small way for all the years
    they were ignored and put down by Eamonn Casey.
    
    I also think they have done Ireland a major service by exposing
    the hypocrisy of a leading clergyman who preached responsibility 
    and self-control while practising neither.
    
    Toby

    re. .21
    
    Of course the woman shares EQUALLY the responsibility of bearing the
    child, but, does the fact that the woman raised the child for the past 
    17 years not show that she bore her share. I believe if anything she
    did a lot more than her share to put up with this situation for as long
    as she did without saying anything.
    
    I think that Eamon Casey has shunned his responsibilities all the way,
    up to and including the fact that he left Galway without as much as an
    explanation to the people who trusted him as thier spiritual leader.
    Surely he must be held accountable to them somewhere along the line.
    
    Gerry
     

    Don't forget that Bp Casey is /was a Catholic and probably believed
    that if he did penance for his sins then he may be forgiven by God etc.
    Who knows if he repented and got forgiveness?
    
    Let him come out and tell us his version!!
    
    There are after all two sides to every story.
    
    Have there been tests and is the boy really his?
    
    We shouldn't really condemn anyone who isn't around to speak for
    himself. It's obvious he is guilty of something but I don't think
    anybody has the right to write a book or make a film about somebody
    unless he agrees!
    
    As the bible says "let the man who is free from sin cast the first
    stone"
    
    I'm not on his side but I would like to hear his comments!

    
    I agree with the last note,  but I find it hard to accept that the
    Catholic Church, in particular the Irish one, still refuses to accept
    the realities of life, both inside & outside the church.
    
    I must admit I like the idea of the movie " Bonkin Bishop does it 10
    times per nite " or " Keep it up Eamon - ya boy ya ".
    
    life goes on .........
    

    
    If he lived in Massachusetts, his picture would be on the side of
    an MBTA bus.
    How can a man bring a child into the world and then refuse to feed 
    and clothe it?
    
    I also wondered why they were going on tv so much.  The truth is out,
    why have their faces on every tv channel? 
    
    Julia
    
    
    Julie

    
    and with all the news on the carryings on of priests in this area,( the
    greater Mass. area ), the Catholic church has a lot to answer to,
    especially about cover-ups and all that.
    
    But then the history of Catholic Church is littered with that  & worse.
    
    

    Re .27
    
    MONEY!!!!!!!

    He has issued a statement at long last and about time, admitting
    Peter is his son.   He has also admitted taken seventy thousand
    pounds ($110,000 approx).    This money has been paid back by
    some idiots with interest.
    
    
    Bernie 
    

    
    Re: .25 and "casting the first stone" ... etc.
    
    Now that Bishop Casey had admitted his sin, perhaps the Catholic 
    Church can do something about making the 5000 women per year who leave
    the country for abortions more accepted.
    
    On the streets of Dublin, very unedifying epithets like "whore",
    "tart", "baby-killer" and "murderer" are being flung at supporters
    of abortion, not by the Bishops themselvers (of course!) but by
    their young henchmen and women, organised in a movement calling
    itself "Youth Defence".
    
    No bishop or priest has yet disassociated the Church from this
    movement.
    
    Toby

    A personal view:-
    	My c�il� band was once hired to play at a social for the Galway
    branch of the Pioneer total abstinence association, an organisation
    which insists on all its' members abstaining for life from all
    intoxicating liqour. Eamonn Casey was the invited guest speaker.
    After giving a short speech he requested backing on a few songs and
    generally got the crowd going. He may not be Pavorotti but  at the
    least he came across as a very human and likeable man. It seems likely
    in my view that he was pressurised into covering up this affair by the 
    Church and the established moral guardians of this country and that he
    went along with them for fear of the presumed consequences.
    
    He has apologised in the papers today for his actions and I think it
    is now in Gods hands and should be left there.
    
    It is interesting to note that this country no longer has any
    institution that it can now fully trust.
    
    The recent pardon of Nicky Kelly has shown Ireland to be no better than 
    Britain in the administration of justice. The cops who beat him up are
    still free and in power.........
    
    The suite of enquiries into, among others, the beef industry, the sugar
    industry and improprieties in the telephone companies property
    management have cast a dark shadow of doubt over the conduct of
    business here.....
    
    Connections between these scandals and politicians have also cast doubt 
    over the integrity of our legislators.
    
    Now it looks as if the Church, the one remaining institution that
    people thought they could trust, has some skeletons in its closet. 
    

    People forget that priests are human too, just like you and me,
    and fall prey to all the same vices of society.  The priest and
    his lover both acted irresponsible and unfortunately the son
    Peter will pay the price.
    
    Although I would agree with Frank and state that Catholic priests
    should be allowed to marry if they wish.  I think this would be
    more natural for them, and provide them with bit more insight
    into the complex world of marriage and child-rearing.  Also, I
    believe that women should be allowed to enter the priesthood.
    In my upbringing I knew several nuns who would have made great
    priests.
    
    /George

    I think Bp. Casey paid the price - $110,000!!!

    
    I think 110k punts = $200k,  thats expensive in one way, but i'm sure
    it hasn't covered the costs of rearing the child, and defo won'y pay
    college fees etc.
    
    My main issue is not with the right or wrong of it, that is personal to
    both parties, but for me its the fact that Eamonn & his friends have
    kept Ireland in the 1800's regarding any advances in family law and in
    many cases have condemned people for what the so 'high & mighty' called
    wrong.
    
    I'd suggest to the catholic leaders, to throw in the towel and let the
    country move on.
    
    

    Our birthrate has plunged since the mid-eighties to European levels,
    reflecting a higher use of artificial contraceptives.
    
    A recent opinion poll showed 80% in favour of a limited form of
    abortion in cases of danger to the mother being allowed. 
    
    Three members of the D�il have revealed that they are part of second 
    unions which are unofficial but the only possible way to have a second
    relationship in a land without divorce. THis would have been political
    suicide 10 years ago.
    
    New tax regulations are to recognise common-law marriages and treat the
    couples involved the same as officially married couples for tax
    purposes. 
    
    Whether the Church likes it or not, people are thinking for themselves
    now  and going forward in a limited way but I still can't see the day
    when abortion on demand will be available here in this island. The
    surgeons involved would find it difficult to be accepted in this all
    too small and intimate island, where everybody knows everybody elses
    business. Perhaps only Dublin is big enough to provide the necessary
    anonymity.
    

	I usually keep away from controversial subjects, but since this
	seems to be "Vent your Spleen" Month in CELT, here goes.

	I agree in some things that Ireland and the Catholic Church
	has to change although not to the full "Anything is ok that
        doesn't inconvenience me " mentality.

	1) Divorce

	Divorce should be allowed.  Priests are allowed to be relieved
	of their vows. I'm sure there is also a corollary between the
	lack of Divorce and a rise in the amount of Battered wives and
	Children. There seems to be a thin line between a Divorce and an
	Annulment. Annulments can vary from diocese to diocese. Marriage
	seems to be the only mistake that can't be forgiven.

	I won't blame Irelands' Divorce situation totally on the Church.
	Since 1916 on, both sides ( Republicans and Free Staters) wanted
	to be more Catholic than the Pope to get the Churchs' support.
	The failure on the divorce referendum a few years back had as much
	to do with the Financial matters ( The wife could get the farm ? etc)
	as Religious just as the problems in the North are more Economic 
	than Religious.

	2) Birth Control

	Birth Control should be allowed. I see a major distinction between
	preventing conception and the Abortion of an existing human being
	regardless of the stage of development.  

	3) Ordination

	Women should be allowed to be ordained. I see no reason for
	the restriction. It's indoor work - no heavy lifting. The latest
	excuse that the apostles were all male doesn't fit. There were
	women followers with Jesus. By the way, there is no reference
	in the Bible to Mary Magdelan being a prostitute. In the third
	century or so, some of the Church leaders were disturbed that a
	woman could have such an active role, so the Myth of Mary as a
	prostitute evolved. 

	On the matter of Married priests, I am opposed. 

	    The reasons for allowing married priests seems to be:

	   a) There is a shortage of priests because of the celibacy
	      rule. priests are leaving in droves to get married.

	      This is one of the arguments from the 60s and 70s. Although
	      there is a reduction of men entering the seminary, those
	      that are ordained are staying. mainly because they are
	      older, more mature and know what they want. You don't hear
	      much of priests leaving lately. There are also more restrictions
	      and psychological testing being done for admission. Programs
	      like Lay Deacons and Extraodinary Ministers have helped the 
	      situation by spreading the workload.

	   b) A married priest would be more experience to counsel on 
	      family problems. Marriage counseling sessions are now handled
	      handled more by married couples as are some of the Pre Cana
	      conferences. People laugh at having to go to them, but maybe
	      if they had paid more though to what marriage is all about
	      the Divorce problem wouldn't be so great. Just as financial
	      and other matters are handled via the Parish Council route.
	       
		My opposition to married priests are based on two reasons.

	    a) There has to be a full time commitment without the
	       distractions of family. The priest can't make a visit
	       to give last rites because he's coaching his sons
	       soccer game. Weekend masses canceled because its the 
	       only time the kids are off from school. Its bad enough
	       that priests are involve in a lot of activities so
	       that don't have time to visit sick parishioners in the
	       hospital.

	    b) The practical problems that would arise. Where does the
	       family live. Additional housing would have to be built.
	       Now with a Pastor and a curate, you can get away with
	       a two or three bedroom house. With a couple of families
	       there, you need the extra room. I can also see it now.
	       "There will be a special collection today for the Mrs
	       new frock". There will be more financial depends on the
	       priests. He'll have to have a bigger salary.  Will the
	       parishioners contribute more? based on how Americans at
	       the moment feel about taxes to help their schools, I doubt
	       more contributions would be coming in. Also, who owns what?
	       The ban on married clergy was put in about the 12-13 Cent
	       to prevent families from inheriting Church property.

	    In the 60s and 70s there was a movement to have the clergy
	    be closer to people. Be pals. The friendliness crossed over
	    the line to more intimate involvement. This was the time of
	    the Bishop Casey/Anne Murphy affair. For some of the younger
	    clergy, this was the first time they came in touch with their
	    feelings and stared to question their vocations. A lot of
	    traumatic decisions were made then. I don't know what Bishop
	    Casey was like then. I just know of what he is doing  know.
	    I wish him well. 

	    The Catholic Church  has survived the Roman Executions, the	
	    Crusades, Corrupt Popes, the Reformation, kinky priests and  
	    touchy-feely Guitar masses. It will survive the Bishop Casey
            affair.
 
	    I may have problems with some of the teachings. I definitely
	    have problems with some of the Clergy as individuals, but so
	    far I haven't found a better substitute for the Church. In the 
	    words of Brendan Behan " I would rather belong to a Church founded
            on the Rock of Peter than the balls of Henry VIII".

    Hmm, I don't see what's wrong with having a married priest whose
    full time job is being a priest.  But a beeper on him/her for
    important calls.  The protestant clergy seem to have no problem in
    managing two careers.
    
    Parishes in the Diocese of Boston are now sharing priests between
    them.  There are very few parishes with more than 1 priest if even
    that.  In five years, lay people will be running the parishes here
    completely.  You can't run the Diocese of Boston with only 10 or
    so new priests each year.
    
    /G

    re. .38
>>Birth Control should be allowed. I see a major distinction between
    
    Birth control IS allowed in Ireland. It's not allowed by the catholic
    church, which is probably a good reason to prevent priests from getting
    married (population explosion).
    
    
    My views on divorce are quite simple. If people don't want to be
    married they shouldn't have to be. If the church has a problem with
    that then tough luck.
    
    As for ordination of women/married priests. I don't care !
    They can do what they like as long as they keep their noses out of
    other people's business !
    
    As for Bishop "feed my secret family on stolen money" Casey, he is the
    lowest form of scum I have ever encountered. I have no respect for 
    hypocrites and have even less respect for men who father children and
    don't contribute to their upbringing (both financially and parentally).
    
    
    Tony
    

    re .38
    
    Priests leaving etc.
    
    I come from Cork city from a parish of about 10,000 (used to be when I
    lived there). There have been three priests from that parish who in the
    last few years have left to be married - one with a huge scandal. That
    is a large percentage. One can't deny that there are less and less
    priests. And lets face it - teenagers don't have anytime for the older
    generation so they need younger priests!
    
    Family ties.
    
    I don't think doctors have any problems if they're called out when
    coaching their sons' football team.
    
    Houses
    
    As for houses, in the above mentioned parish there are three
    three-bedroomed houses each housing one priest. These houses are much
    bigger than those in the same parish which house families of 12
    children etc.
    
    Therese

    Brings a whole new meaning to the term ....

    
    From what I hear there is a world-wide shortage of preists, 
    particularly in the "developed world". In the USA the average
    age of priests is around the 60 mark. Heterosexual priests are
    becoming a rarity as none will take vows of celibacy.
    
    Even in Ireland, combining of parishes and calling back priests
    from Africa and Latin America is only a few years away. 
    
    Don"t expect change in the lifetime of this Pope. Apparently
    he will only appoint hard-line orthodox clerics to bishoprics.
    Eamonn Casey probably wouldn"t be a bishop today under John
    Paul II. He is adamant against clerical marriages, release of
    clerics from vows, contraception, and anything that sniifs
    of liberal sexuality.
    
    Toby

    RE: Pope John Paul II
    
    There is much speculation regarding Pope John Paul I, and his short
    lived reign (30 some days), and to the possibility that he was actually
    murdered. It is believed that his views were far too liberal for him to
    be in charge of the Catholic Church, and that he was about to review
    all of the more conservative rules by which Catholics must abide. He
    was also about to launch an investigation into the financial affairs of
    the Vatican....to begin on the day that he died mysteriously. The new
    Pope (John Paul II) fit in much better with the older and more
    conservative 'behind the scenes' leaders.
    
    
    Gerry

    
    re .44
    
     Faerie-tales.
    
     

    RE. 45
    
    Are you sure??
    
    Read "In Gods' Name" by David Yallop and then tell me what you think. I
    wouldn't be so quick to write it off without first looking at the
    'facts' as they are given in this book. It may not be totally true,
    possibly a lot of speculation, but there are definitely a lot of
    unanswered questions, which, by the way, the Vatican refuses to answer.
    
    Gerry
    

    
    
    I'm not sure if its the same book but, my father read something 
    a few years ago about the Vatican and its finances.  He said they
    had invested money in the pharmaceutical company that manufactured
    the pill.  Unknowingly, I'm sure.
    
    Julia
    

    That's the book alright. And there's a lot more too!
    
    Gerry

    
    Now from waht I heard recentky there is a lot in that book about a
    certain well know Chicago cardinal ............... with a very Irish
    name :=).
    
    Gerry "the other Coadys'
    

    That's right, Gerry......no relation I hope.
    
    It's well worth a read. Gives you a different perspective on things.
    
    Gerry

    
    This is a true story -)
    
    Two auld fellas sitting in a pub in Galway the other night,
    ist fella said, Aura I wonder who will get the Diocese now,
    and the other lad replies "sure the son will have to get it" -))
    
    regards PeterT

	"In God's Name"  never actually comes out and accuses anyone
	specifically with the murder of John Paul I. It does show
	how a number of individuals : the Vat Sec of State, Cardinal
	Cody of Chicago, Bishop Marcincus of the Vatican Bank, P2
	a Italian secret society and a number of Italian bankers and
	gangsters gained by his death.

	It delves a lot into the financial dealings of the Vatican Bank.
	When Luciano (John Paul I) was Bishop of Venice, he saw the change
	in the workings of the Bank and would have made drastic reforms.

	On a more humane level, it also describes how as head of the
	bishops committee on the family, he wrote a report which
	recommended the Church allow artificial birth control. His
	brother had 10 children and he was aware of the problem. 
	As Pope he would have made a change.

	Another interesting book on the Vatican is "La Popessa", BY
	PAUL MURPHY. It is a biography of Sr Pascalini, secretary/housekeeper
	to Pius XII.

	The death of John Paul I was a great tragedy. The general 
	consensus in that the pressures and realities of the situation
	were too great on his heart and he died a natural death. The
	Irish Connection has to do with the finding of the body. It
	was found by a num bringing his breakfast who called in Bishop
	Magee, current Bishop of Cloynes who is a candidate for Galway.
	
	

    
    
    may as well ask this here....Is the name McNamarra or is there an Irish
    name that means  "son of the bishop"?
    
    Sky News had a Priest on a few nights ago and I swear he said this.
    
    
    Gary

    Son of a priest would be MacAntagart, MacTargert, McTargat, or
    similar conbinations.  I'm not sure what son of a bishop would
    be.  What's the Irish for bishop?

    
    
    	I think this guy should be stoned. What kind of example is this to
    give to good-living Catholics like myself who lead sinfree lives while
    listening to their preaching from pulpits and then poling parishoners.
    I will even cast the first stone.
                                                                      Les.

    
    he probably was stoned :=)
    
    

    Did you heard that Aer Lingus announced a special offer this summer?
    
    Children of celibate priests fly for free.  ;v) 

    On the Channel 9 news here the newscaster announced that Eamon was 
    
    	"...taking up the missionary position in South America".
    
    
    

    
    I wonder if the "stone him" crowd is a little jealous about not having
    the "time of his life"  while this bishop has.
    
    Gary

    re: a few back
    
    Son of a bishop: Mac an Easpaig, Mac an Giolla Easpaig
    
    Which have been anglisied to McAnespie and Gillespie respectively.

    RE .55
    
    Les, Try to ignore this incident and get on with your 'sin free' life
    as before. I know you.....you can do it.
    
    Gerry

You.

Peters pence takes on a new meaNING

MBR

    
    I think The Sun (or the Star) reached a new low on Saturday
    "MY NIGHTS WITH VIRGIN BISHOP" screamed the headline. Not
    that Annie Murphy probably said anything of the sort, but
    tabloids are capable of rather free interpretation ....
    
    More humourously, chatting with a friend the other day about
    Eamonn Casey, I used the word "bishopric" in innocence and
    he almost bust a gut laughing. Guess that expression takes
    on a whole new meaning now .....
    
    Toby

    Fellow noters and read-only people,
    
    I have had mail from a guy who shares the same name as me who works in
    Galway. Some people have read my entries here (especially 1050.40) and 
    asumed it was this guy who entered them. These people seem to have 
    forwarded a copy of the note around the Galway plant blaming the other
    Tony Boyle on writing it. Mr. Boyle has become upset about this and has
    asked me to "clear his name".
    
    So, for the record :
    
    	IT WAS NOT WLDWST::BOYLE (31093::BOYLE), IT WAS ME. 
    
    
    I am based in Melbourne, Australia, not Galway, Ireland.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    The REAL Tony Boyle !!!!
    
    P.S. If people have problems with what they read in Notes files, reply
    in the notes file; don't extract the note and send it around the
    office - especially when you're UNSURE of your facts.
    
    
    

    WILL SOMEONE SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT PLEASE!
    
    Are Galway and Kerry together part of the SEE of which Casey was Bishop
    are are they separate?
    
    Therese
    
    ps think its called a SEE!

    Therese,
    
    No Galway and Kerry are seperate.    Eamon Casey was bishop of Kerry,
    then he was moved to Galway.
    
    
    Bernie

    Bishop Casey was giving out Communmion at Mass
    
    Body of Christ............
    
    
    Body of Christ............
    
    
    Body of Christ............
    
    
    
    Then he comes to Annie Murphy........
    
    
    
    
    Christ, what a body.......
    
    
    
    Gerry