Conference tallis::celt

Well,what do *you* think about that?  Sounds like you might have a perspective
we would like to hear over here in the States.

Does it seem to you that American tourists are "glorifying" The Troubles?  We
really don't get much hard news on this, you know.  And isn't it just like
Americans to take pictures of things like that blown bridge?  Too much TV and
Rambo movies make some people here miss the realities of real life sometimes if
you ask me.

Can you really tell what people there think by what newspapers they are holding?
I wonder what political persuasion "USA Today" means??  ;)

-McElhiney

>Does it seem to you that American tourists are "glorifying" The Troubles? 
    
    Yes! Some at least (the Noraid variety to be specific).
    
    Then it is hardly surprising. Last night William Colby (remember him,
    ex-chief of the CIA) was interviewed on TV on the Colombian
    'drug-barons'. In the course of the interview he asserted the right of
    the U.S 'to  go in and sort out' bandits anywhere in the world. "we did
    it with the barbery pirates in the early eighteen hundreds..." etc.
    
    I feel at times that this attitude holds good for a large section of
    American (and dare I say it, British and Soviet) opinion. In certain
    circles it is called 'imperialism'.
    
    Pat. 
  
     
    
    
    

    
    
     Pat,
    
      Just a question about your knowledge of NORAID.  How specifically
    does that organization glorify the 'troubles'?  And since you are
    so quick to point the finger please be specific.   Also would you
    please type the charter of NORAID for us ill-informed in the US
    
    Thanks
    
    paddy

    I think it is the feeling of many Americans (this one included) that
    the U. S should stay home and take care of its' own - God knows there
    is plenty that needs attention here.  It is my perception that our
    gov't and military should only interfere when it directly effects the
    U.S.
    
    My heart goes out to those who are always suffering especially the old,
    the children and women whose countries have seen no peace in many
    years, never knowing if to-day will be your last one.  Having your
    loved ones killed or maimed.  I don't believe I could live under such
    conditions.  Their courage is outstanding.  I find it difficult to
    believe that the majority want to live like that, it is primarily their
    egotistical, power hungry and money grubbing leaders.  Religious
    differences such as those in Ireland should be able to be resolved in
    this day and age without resorting to bombs etc.  Whatever happened to
    the art of successful negotiation?  Is that too simple?  Something has
    to give somewhere before we are all destroyed.
    
    Well that is enough of the soapbox.  Everyone enjoy their long weekend.
    
    Pat
    

    Re: -.1
    
    I have to have to disillusion you, but they are not fighting about
    religion......
    

    We spent a week in Donegal this year and also travelled the same
    route as Pat, crossing back into 'The South' at Aughnacloy.  Augnacloy
    bridge is where a youth was shot dead by the Brits last year - a
    simple makeshift monument marks the place where he fell.  Passing
    through the checkpoint is, in my opinion, more severe and intimidating
    than the frontier between East-West Germany - covert and overt
    surveillance right through the corridor of Brit steel.
    
    During our stay in Donegal, we visited Derry for a day.  Now I won't
    make any claims to being an expert after a day but just to look
    around and experience the atmosphere is practically indescribable.
    One moment remains in my mind more than others - and that was when
    I (for the first time) looked out over the walls of Derry down on
    the Bogside.  Some of you may have been there and know what I mean.  
         
    -dermot

    
>      Just a question about your knowledge of NORAID.  How specifically
>    does that organization glorify the 'troubles'?  And since you are
>    so quick to point the finger please be specific.   Also would you
>    please type the charter of NORAID for us ill-informed in the US
 
    I do not have specific knowledge of the NORAID charter. I can only
    judge them on their actions and statements (and by the company they
    keep) when they visit Ireland. A namesake of mine seems less than
    happy with their current stance. (3:00a.m. requisitions of office
    equipment etc..)
    
    They seem closely associated with Provo. SF and support for 'the
    armed struggle'. On both counts, I would disagree with them.
    
    I visit and stay in Derry 2/3 times a year and can say from my
    experience (which is incomplete and partial) that neither SF nor
    Noraid have contributed greatly to the regeneration of the city
    or the amelioration of the lot of its citizens. By contrast, the
    (unfashionable) SDLP have worked their butts off in improving life
    for all the inhabitants of the city.
    
    Pat
    [who is conscious of all the injustice inflicted on the country
    by successive British [and Irish] governments, but has NO time for
    the Provos]
      

    Tonight RTE 1 are showing a documentary on Derry, made in 1964.
    It hasn't been shown before - the reason at the time was to avoid
    embarrasing the northern authorities.  It deals with discrimination
    of the nationalists and should be very interesting seeing that it
    was made before the present 'troubles' started.  The Radharc program
    starts at 22:35.

    re:.6  My wife and I crossed at Augnacloy last summer (off to see
    the old Favour Royal estate).  Must say it was the only eeerieee
    thing of our entire three weeks in Ireland.

    
    
    >.7  SDLP unfasionable!!!!!!
    
    Pat.
    
       Who are they unfasionable with..I thought they had increased
    support..But I could be wrong.
    
    
    I suppose its hard to say who works hardest in Derry for the good
    of the people. I think Derry is "better" now than it was in the
    late 60's early 70's...which wouldnt be hard. However as the last
    noter says to look down into the Bogside is quite shocking. Conditions
    are still bad. However "Hard" the SDLP may seem to work they have
    nothing to offer with regard to stopping the injustice and harassment
    dealt out to Nationalists in such areas as the Bogside..(Have they????)
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Your right it is not TOTALLY religious but from here it looks like the
    Catholics hate the Protestants and vice versa and the Irish and
    English governments foster the hate.  At any rate nothing was ever
    cured by violence, only the innocent suffer.
    
    Pat
    

.11�                       -< I'll be cooked for this one! >-

    Well you must have been half stewed/steamed when you wrote it ;-)
    
    - Dave K.