Conference tallis::celt

    Hey Kevin,  If you have the stomach for it, fly stand-by.
    
    It's a royal pain in the arse, but the fare is half-price.
    
    ds

    For those considering standby, the best night to go is Tuesday.
    This is consistently the most underbooked trans-Atlantic departure
    from U.S. and therefore offers the best odds in getting a seat.
    If you have some flexibility in when you take your vacation, it's
    worth trying.                                   
                                                    
    

	How does "Standby" work ?

	Do you just walk up to the ticket counter, and tell them you want
	to try standby ? 

	Am I likely to be able to get 3 seats on the same flight this way ?

	I have given serious thought to departing for Ireland on a midweek
	flight, so as to gain an extra weekend. 

	Our scheduled is very flexible. (as long as we see the Galway Races)

	Thanks for the info so far.


	keVin

     re .1, .2:
     
     Do you have the slightest, remotest idea what you're talking about, or
     are you just giving blind advice that could screw someone's vacation?
     
     The last time I heard of standby was for Freddie Laker's flights --
     and they went to London.  I know of no standby fares to Ireland, or
     anywhere else in Europe (except possibly to Vienna on TAROM). The best
     fares through the airlines are Super-APEX fares, made at least 21 days
     in advance.  
     
     There are also a bunch of travel agencies that sell tickets on the
     "gray market" -- perfectly legal, and the airlines say they know
     nothing about it while at the same time selling cut-rate seats to the
     gray market agencies.  You find them in the Sunday newspaper --
     usually, the ads will be nothing more than a series of city names
     followed by price.  The gray market tickets (which are for both
     scheduled and charter flights) can be as much as 30-40% less than
     the lowest fare available through the airlines.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    
    
    	After lots of phone calls, I think we found the best price.
    
    	Pan Am 	$449.00 RT if booked before May 31st.
    
    	The only "catch" is that you must depart on a Tuesday and return
        on any Wednesday prior to the end of September.
    
    	All of the other major airlines wanted $599.00 + tax.
                                                     
    
    
    	keVin

    RE: .4  "get screwed"
    
    Anybody who packed their bags and walked in to Logan Tuesday night
    looking for a standby seat on the basis of my reply (.2) deserves
    to get screwed.  On the other hand, the advice about Tuesday night
    being the least traffic seems to be borne out by the info uncovered
    in .6.  This was given to me by a transportation consultant who's
    in the business of knowing what's moving where and how.
    
    As for going "standby", I don't know whether there is anything going to
    Ireland, but last summer when we were picking up our tickets to London
    at the British Airways office in Scollay Square, there was somebody
    buying 1/2 fare standby seats for that night, who was being advised
    that there would probably be seats available as they were not yet
    booked up.  It was also possible to fly "standby" on the Concorde from
    New York. 
    

    
     I fly to Ireland at least twice a year, and have asked repeatedly
    about standby.  No airline I've talked to has done standby to Ireland
    for years.
    
     I have flown standby from Seattle to London a couple of times
    and once from NY to London.
    
     All you have to do is pay about half the price, and not be too
    upset if you cant get on the flight.  British Airways will actually
    call you and tell you in the morning of the flight if there is going
    to be a seat.

    The Irish Government has just announced a number of measures that
    they hope will attract an extra 400,000 tourists this year. Among
    these are lower air fares.  Of interest to you, Kevin, should be
    the $399 "Greensaver" ticket.  To qualify for this you must stay
    in Ireland for at least three weeks.  They have also doubled the
    availability of another "special offer" ticket by making it
    available on Wednesdays as well as Tuesdays. 

    Aer Lingus say they will charter additional planes if the demand
    warrants it.
    
    The snag; no date has been given for the introduction of these
    fares as agreement is need from the U.S. before they can be
    implemented. 

    
    	Liam: Thanks for the info, we called them today, but they could
    	      not discuss the "Greensaver" ticket prices, until final
    	      approval of the rates, which is expected to happen early next
    	      week. Air Lingus wanted to know how we found out about this 
              new program ??  :-)
    
    	      The agent frequently sugguested that we call back next
    	      week, which gave me the impressions that they do not
    	      anticipate any problems in gaining approval of the new rates.
                                               
    
                                                                     
    		keVin

    This is slightly off the subject, but I  wanted to tell you about
    the price that my wife and I are getting for tickets from Dallas
    to Shannon (stopover in Atlanta for 1 hour) leaving Dec. 16 and
    coming back Jan. 6.  We haven't actually purchased them yet which
    will assure us of the price.  The Delta agent said that she doesn't
    expect it to change (watch out for Murphy's Law!).  Round trip from
    Dallas via DELTA airlines, $540 each!  As soon as we feel comfortable
    that the three week trip fits into our budget, the tickets will be
    purchased.  The tickets are $150 higher if you leave after the 16th and
    before the 24th.  As long as tickets are available and the price
    doesn't change, the only other requirement is purchase 21 days before
    the flight.  It might be worth investigating flying through Atlanta.
     Please don't take all the seats!
    
    Best Regards,
    John O'Reilly 

    Whoops!  That was actually $520 each round trip Dallas to Shannon!!
    
    John

    One point of interest is tat there has been large reduction in fare
    from London to Ireland in the last year.  Since many readers of
    tis conference seem to be great fans of Maggy maybe you should pay
    her a visit on your way to Ireland.
    
    One thing I cant understand is KeVin's insistance that he must be
    in Galway for the races;  you would think the All-Ireland Hurling
    semi final would be the day he would want to be in Ireland!  Just
    because Clare were beaten on Sunday is no reason why you should
    loose the faith!

    
    	Willie:    
    
    	We plan to arrive on July 22nd. I thought the hurling semi finals
    	would be held on the 25th or 26th ?? (before the Galway Races)

                                                                 
    
    Clare will return with "Big Sticks"
    
    
    
    	keVin
    

    
    
    	We now have ticket in hand.
    
    	Total price $472.00 rt. (459 + 13 tax)
                               
    	July 21st - Tuesday
    
    	LV Boston 5:45P
    	AR N.Y.C. 7:00P
        LV N.Y.C. 8:30P
    		
    	July 22nd - Wednesday
    	
    	AR Shannon 7:30A
    
    	
    	Aug 12th - Wednesday
    	
    	LV Shannon 12:45P
    	AR N.Y.C.   2:25P                    
        LV N.Y.C.   4:00P
    	AR Boston   5:15P
    
    
    	Car rental = $450 for 3 weeks 
       (Pan Am has special car rental price of $50. for first week)
       (Aer Lingus special air fare is $449 + tax from N.Y.C. only)
    

    I may need to travel to Reading this summer to work on a project
    for a couple of weeks.  I have never been to the UK, and would like
    to take 3-4 days to go to Ireland after the project is done (assuming
    the trip gets approved at all!).
    
    I looked at some travel guides and felt a little overwhelmed.  
    
    Can anyone make some suggestions?  Here are my criteria--
    I don't have lots of money 
    I'd probably like to stay in B&B places 
    I want to hear as much live folk music as possible 
    I want to spend some time in the country 
    I want to visit the town my family emigrated from in Donegal  
    
    (I think I'd like to rent a car).
    
    Thank you!                                
    

    
    
    	The car is going to cost you a few bob.. Roughly about $200
    a week plus insurance I think.. KeVin Burnsie would know better.
    
    	The flight from London to either Cork or Dublin is around
    $120. You might want to consider the ferry. It's about $70-$90
    I think. I always took the flight.. It's only an hour. The ferry
    is about 8 hours..
    
    B&B's are everywhere..
    
    The rest are up to you really.. 
    
    							mike

    
    
    	There's the Burren, and The Cliffs of Moher
    	The Tulla, and the Kilfenor
    	Miko Russell, and Dr. Bill
    	Willey Clancy, and Noel Hill
    	Flutes and Whistles everywhere
    	If it's music you want ...
                    
    
    
    
    	Go To CLARE  !!!
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

    
    
    	See, I told you there was a BURREN ...
    
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

Holly,

Did you consider travelling via Ireland.  You could ask your travel 
agent to book you Aer Lingus, Boston-Shannon, Shannon-London.  You would
have less than two hours wait in Shannon.  On the way back you could stay
in Ireland for the four days.  The cost of this journey should be the same
as a direct return to London but at worst will only be marginally dearer.

If you have to take your four days in Ireland in the middle of your trip
to Reading then the cheapest fare is The RyanAir flight from Luton to 
Dublin at approx $145 return.  (Virgin Airlines have applied for a licence
to have a $105 return also from Luton.)  Flights from Heathrow to Ireland
are substantially dearer unless you book well in advance, stay a Saturday
night and risk loosing your money if you have to change your plans.

Car hire in Ireland is expensive but DEC employees can get the following
rates with unlimited mileage provided you have an advanced booking and the 
price is agreed at the time of booking.

	Hertz	�29 ($44) per day
	Avis	�33 ($50) per day

You probably need to add a few dollars per day for the optional insurances.

You can hear plenty of good music here in Galway and also in County Clare,
between here and Shannon.  If you were to stay a night in Doolin, Co.Clare
you would be in the country (miles from anywhere!), beside the sea and beside
good traditional music. 

As regards accomodation you should phone the Irish Tourist Board in Boston
and ask them to send you a copy of their B.& B. Directory.  

If you get as far as Galway you would need to allow three hours to get to
Bundoran.  It is just over one hundred miles away but the roads vary in
quality.

Liam

On a recent trip, I hired a car from Avis based on their offering 
the best rates at the time. I cannot remember the price details, but
the way it worked was as follows:

	I could get DEC discount (35% ?), but with a milage charge, or
	I could get unlimited milage without the discount.

Breakeven point was somewhere in the region of 250 miles. As I estimated
that I would be doing 300+, I opted for the latter.

BTW, you should research some of the "fly-drive" plans whereby your
flight and car are bundled to achieve lower prices...

Regards,
Mike

    OK, all you Irish travel experts out there.  My wife and I are
    travelling to Ireland around Christmas time.  Please don't ask why
    we're going that time of year, I'm tired of explaining why!  We'll
    be there three weeks.  My wife likes to be pampered.  She's concerned
    about not having central heat.  Q: Are most B & B's centrally heated
    or at least have a space heater next to the bed or a fireplace next
    to the bed?  Also other amenities are important to her like a nice
    bathroom with shower/bath, etc.  Please comment about hotels, cottage
    rentals, etc.  Our current plans call for us to be there from about
    Dec. 16 to Jan. 6.  I would appreciate comments on particular events
    at that time of the year.
    
    Thank you for your help.
    
    John O'Reilly in Dallas

    Some of you have mentioned DEC rates on cars.  If I am in England
    for DEC, but spend 4 days vacationing in Ireland afterward, is that
    applicable?
    
    Thanks for all the info.

	
        Travelers to Ireland should contact:                     
    
        "Irish Tourist Board"
         Bord F�ilte
         757 Third Avenue 
         New York, N.Y. 10017
         (212) 418-0800      
    
                                           
    	They will send you all the brochures about vacationing in Ireland.
    

    Saying Thank You, Kevin, and testing out my newly added "logo"
    
    John O'Reilly

Re .21

Mike,  Take my word for it.   If you go about it the right way you
can get the DEC discount and unlimited mileage at the rates I quoted.
Next time you need to hire a car let me know.

                           -------

Re .23

Holly, I presume you are asking if you can get the DEC discount even
when paying for the car yourself for private use.  The answer is; Yes 
you can.

Liam

    RE: .23 and .26
    
    If you hire a car thru Hertz or Avis you can waive the daily insurance
    according to the Personnel Policies and Procedures manual. I'm not
    sure if that applies to renting a car across the pond but a call
    to the right people would confirm that..
    
    							mike

From:	NAME: BROTHERS
	INITLS: GEORGE
	FUNC: EURO SECURITY MNGR
	ADDR: REO F7-3
	TEL: (7)830-4696 <180974@DECMAIL@OGOMTS@OGO>
Posted-date: 03-Jul-1987
Subject: POLICE ANTI TERRORIST ACTIVITIES AT EUROPEAN AIRPORTS

To:	See Below

Further to our telephone conversation today, I confirm that police at 
European airports have increased their vigilance relative to luggage 
left unattended by travellers, even for short periods of time.  They 
are prepared to destroy that luggage by 'controlled explosion'. 

One member of Digital staff has recently been subjected to this 
process at Paris airport, having left luggage unattended for less than 
five minutes whilst viewing the destination board.   Personal items in 
a suitcase and business papers in a briefcase were completely 
destroyed.  Paris airport police confirm that they are conducting 
numerous such explosions each day, luggage left unattended more than 
3-5 minutes will be destroyed and Police refuse compensation on the 
grounds that sufficient multi-lingual notices are posted declaring 
their intentions. 

As discussed, in order to pass a speedy message to our travelling 
personnel, please use your lines of communication to inform personnel 
of this risk to their property and I recommend that our contracted 
travel agents be provided with a short notice to be included with 
airline tickets.   This notice should be carefully worded and simply 
warn our people of the need to ensure their luggage is never left 
unattended, particularly at airports and railway stations and of the 
increase in police response relative to terrorist activity.

Regards.

    T.G. they didn't get my irish sausages on my trip.  They would
    have made a mess.

     re .29:
     
     Sausages have been known to cause explosions of their own, especially
     after they have been washed down with a few pints of the black stuff.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    In response to pressure from American carriers for more landing rights
    in London, the British govvernment is proposing to open up a route from
    New York to Belfast.  American Trans Air, of Indianapolis, which is
    primarily a charter airline is set to begin three scheduled flights a
    week.  The big U.S. airlines are not too interested in this, but it
    might have the potential for a low fare if they do decide to offer
    flights and want to build up business right away.
    
    Stay tuned.
    

    Given that Belfast is only 90 miles away from Dublin and on a good
    Motorway as well, this could cause havoc to the usual Shannon route if
    the price is right.
    
    There is at the moment a row going on between Shannon, on Irelands west
    coast, and Dublin, the capital on Irelands east coast, over the fact
    that all incoming flights originating in  North America are obliged by
    Irish transport regulations to land at Shannon.
    
    Supporters of maintaining the compulsory stopover point to the fate of
    Prestwick ,Scotland, as to what will happen to Shannon if the stopover
    requirement is removed. Prestwick is now almost deserted since the
    British transport Authorities allowed free access into Scotland for
    international flights. Among others, the nearby Airport at Glasgow
    benefitted at Prestwicks expense.
    
    Since Shannon is 140 miles from Dublin on an inferior road, people
    bound for Dublin may elect to travel to Belfast instead of travelling
    via Shannon as is the current practice. Even if one factors in the
    flight from Shannon to Dublin the plane spends and hour on the ground
    at Shannon before completing it journey to Dublin. A person could be
    well on his way down from Belfast and across the border heading towards
    Dublin by that time.
    
    A similar restriction applies to Connachts Knock Airport , built to
    service the immigrant and pilgrim traffic on the 80's. A
    workaround was to land the aircraft at Iceland thus qualifying the
    second leg of such a flight as a European flight and  not subject
    to the same restrictions as North American flights.
    
    We haven't seen the end of this saga yet...
    

    Most American tourists would go to Shannon if given the choice,
    to visit the south and west where there is great scenery and where
    the majority of their relatives/ancestors are located.
    
    Is Shannon's beef that the Irish airlines would intentionally
    limit flights to Shannon for financial reasons or pressure from
    Dublin?
    
    I mean Dublin and environs are OK... ah but the west is awake... ;v)
    
    Belfast will steal only a bit of the traffic at best.  Unfortunately,
    its name still suffers over here (whether right or wrong) with association
    with the troubles (few realize it is safer than NY or Boston).
    
    /G

    
    Hmmmm.  Are there any statistics about how much air traffic into
    Ireland is business vs personal?   I would think that Business
    travelers might opt for a direct route to Dublin (or as direct as it
    can get)
    
    /jen
    

    That's my point.  Dublin travellers aren't contributing to the Shannon
    (west) economy anyways - they fly on to Dublin.  I think the fear from
    the West is that Dublin will have the potential to woo away the tourists
    in some less than fair method, either by lower airfares or simply by
    limiting flights.  It seems more like a Clare/Limerick/Kerry/Galway vs.
    The Pale riff! 

The article I read about flights to Belfast also implied that car hire rates 
were significantly lower in N.I. and would therefore be a added incentive.

Tom

    CA$530 AirTransat (Air Canada charter) return Toronto - Belfast
    
    Stg�210, Avis Type A car hire in Belfast for two weeks (VAT 17.5% not 
    included), CDW refused, unlimited mileage
    
    IR�200 self-catering cottage in Kerry for two weeks

    Pat, does the $530 include the layover in Sarnia?  ;v)

    Ahhh, errr, well George, the flight takes a polar route with de-planing
    and de-lousing at Tuktoyuktuk, NWT.  Here, a small tour has been laid
    on of the local university, Tuk U.
    
    Once the rubber band has been re-wound, it's off again with SunKissed
    Tours and Used Storm Door Company.
    
    By the way, Sarnia doesn't exist.  There is a different town on the same
    town site - with the same name.
    
    	Sl�n,
    
    	Pat

    RE: .31  by TOPDOC::AHERN 
    
    >In response to pressure from American carriers for more landing rights
    >in London, the British govvernment is proposing to open up a route from
    >New York to Belfast.  American Trans Air, of Indianapolis, which is
    >primarily a charter airline is set to begin three scheduled flights a
    >week.  The big U.S. airlines are not too interested in this, but it
    >might have the potential for a low fare if they do decide to offer
    >flights and want to build up business right away.
    
    >Stay tuned.
    
    I see ads in the paper now for the following fares on Trans Air:
    
    Boston/Shannon $369
    JFK/Shannon $369
    JFK/Dublin $389
    JFK/Belfast $399
    JFK/Knock $489
    Philadelphia/Shannon $399
    Chicago/Shannon $549
    Los Angeles/Shannon $649
    
    The local agency that's advertising these charters is Crystal Travel &
    Tours in West Roxbury, telephone (617) 327-4242, or 1-800-327-3780 from
    outside Massachusetts.  Anybody ever used them?
    

    
    I haven't used Chrystal travel, but I have talked with them regarding
    the possibility of travel to Europe this year.  I found them great,
    they were helpful, they had great fares etc. I wouldn't use them as
    part of the trip is Business related and as a result I must use Thomas
    Cook, even tho my personal leg of the journey costs more as a result.
    
    I would say they are worth good.
    
    A question; if they are flying to Shannon - is that via Belfast ??, as
    I thougt that only Aer Lingus flys into Shannon/Dublin (direct) ?
    
    When do the flights start - after 1-Jun ?
    
    
    

    RE: .41     by CTHQ::COADY 
    
    >A question; if they are flying to Shannon - is that via Belfast ??, as
    >I thougt that only Aer Lingus flys into Shannon/Dublin (direct) ?
    
    I think they have different flights for different destinations, but I'm
    not sure.  I assume that the flight for Boston/Dublin stops at Shannon
    first and you pay more if going all the way to Dublin.  Whether the
    same flight continues on to Belfast, I don't know.
    
    >When do the flights start - after 1-Jun ?
    
    The ad gave me the impression they are flying now, maybe once a week,
    with twice a week starting in June or so.  I don't remember exactly.
    

    My wife checked with Chrystal this AM.  The prices listed 2 or 3
    entries for Trans-Air ago are off-season rates (maybe it said so). 
    Summer rates were $100 to $200 higher.
    
    Also they use Lockheed 1011 with seating room smaller than other
    commercial carriers, and seat assignments cannot be made until day
    (time?) of departure.                 
    
    -- Jim

    RE: .43
    
    Thanks, Jim.
    

You can try asking Thomas Cook to book a discounted fare, though I am not
sure whether the corporate contract with them allows it.

Personally, I'd not fly any airline that would not guarantee me a very
particular seat ahead of time for such a long flight.

Keep in mind that with more charters opening up, there will be more
competition against the more conventional airlines, which should force
their prices down some too.

-Jay

    Anyone got the up-to-date fares for flights between NYC-DUB in Jul/Aug
    timeframe? Are there any specialist charter airlines offering cheap
    fares for those months?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Tony.