Conference tallis::celt

    Re .0: Mc is just a shorthand for Mac, the Irish also use M' instead,
    but all are supposed to be written Macxxx when not abbreviated,
    and all are pronouced mac.
    			Denis.

    Re .1:  OK, but is it the Irish or the Scots who predominately use
            Mc?  Or is it not predominate to either?
    
    Glenn

    I quote a little bit from Edward MacLysaght's Irish Families
    which is a reputable source of genealogical info.
    
    "...It is hardly necessary to state that these prefixes
    [Mac and O] denote descent, mac (son) indicates that the surname
    was formed from the personal names, or sometimes calling, of the
    father of the first mann to bear that surname, while O names are
    derived from a grandfather or even earlier ancestor, o or ua being
    the Irish word for grandson, or more loosely male descendant."
    
    [female counterparts include "Ni" for grandaughter", i.e.
    Kathleen Ni Houlihan]
    
    "...I may refer to the widespread belief ourside Ireland that Mac
    is essentially a Scottish prefix.  To us this idea is absurd, for
    many of our foremost Irish families bear Mac names such as MacCarthy,
    MacGuinnness, MacGrath, ...  Nevertheless, it is a fallacy widely
    held.  It is true, of course that many Mac names in Ulster are Scottish
    in origin, having come in with the 17th century planters; and these
    tend to retain their Gaelic prefix when those of Catholic Ireland
    fell into disuse.  In any case the Scottish Gaels are originally
    of Irish stock and Scotland herself took her name from the word
    Scotia which in Latin was at first used to denote the land inhabited
    by the Irish race.
    
    At the beginning of the present century under the growing influence
    of the Gaelic League a general reversal of the process began to
    be perceptible [adding mac's and o's to one's name].  Yet even today
    there are scores of Gaelic names with which the prefix is seldom,
    if ever, seen, e.g. Boland, Brophy, Connolly, ... The extent of
    the resumption can best be illustrated by the mere fact that whie
    in 1890, according to Matheson's calculations, there were twice
    as many Connells as O'Connells today."
    
    Hope this adds a little insight.
    -Seoirse MacDarcy

    As a Btw in AYR DEC phone directory there are 17 Mac's and 89 Mc's,
    personnaly I've always thought that Mc was the Scottish and Mac
    was the Irish.
    
    
    Drew

    
    I thank you George for the help.  It was, indeed, insightful.  I'd
    really like to know more about my heritage, family clan, etc. dating
    back to Scotland.  Do you know of the proper books, or some other
    way, to gather this information?
    
    Glenn

    Hi all,
    re .5 glenn I don't know if the node you are on is in colo springs
    but if you keep an eye out in the paper when it starts to get warmer
    the A.F academy has the highland games & there are booths where
    you can find out what clan your family was asso to and you can go
    from there...hope it helps
    
                 Kevin Robert Barry McCloskey
                 (scotch/irish decent)
    
    

    re -1
    Do you mean that tour ancestors were Irish and drunk on Whisky when
    they decided to proliferate their family, the words that you may
    be looking for is Scots or Scottish, Scotch is most definately Whisky.
    
    Drew :-)

    
    RE: .6
    
    	Thanks Kevin.  Yes, I am in Colorado Springs.  And I assure
    you that I'll be watching for the Highland Games at USAFA.
    
    RE: .7 
    
    	Drew, are you an American working at DEC in Scotland or a Scots
    working for DEC there?  The only reason I'm asking is that Scotch
    being a Whiskey is an old line that my parents used to use on me
    too.  Just asking.
    
    Glenn

Are you kidding ? a colonial (sorry American) working for Dec in Scotland,
    no I'm an east coaster working in the west coast, I suppose that
    you might have picked up a trace of North American accent as I lived
    in Calgary, Alberta for 3 years.
    
    Drew :-)
    

    OK Drew, I get the picture.
    Glenn

    
    
    	He "DREW" you a picture      :-)
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

< Note 121.13 by ECC::DONNELLY "Joe Donnelly ACTing in Munich" >
                         -< an he disnae wear a kilt >-

I've been reading this notesfile for a few months and I am amazed at how 
much I don't know about the CELTIC culture.  I have relatives in the 
Greenock/Gourock area,  and have been over to visit once about 16 years
ago.  I have noticed that many families have crossed back and forth from
Scotland to Ireland, so it's tough to find out where your family tree starts.
For example my grandfather (James Patrick Dolan) was born and raised in
Glasgow, and fought in France with the Irish Fusiliers.

  I have found this notesfile very informative and interesting. Keep up 
the great work.  

	Will never lose interest,
	Jack McPherson Joseph Mclaughlin    

Jack,

You are right about the movement of people between Ireland and the west
of Scotland.  Mostly it was one way traffic with large scale emigration
from the northern part of Ireland in the latter half of the last century
and the first half of this century.  The name McLaughlin comes from Donegal 
although I have heard it said that they were originally chased out of 
Scotland, for sheep stealing, centuries ago.  Dolan is also an Irish name.
You must have some Scottish blood in you however when your parents took
the trouble to add McPherson to your name. 

I am one of those who have reversed the emigration trend.  I was born in 
Greenock and would be interested to hear who your Greenock/Gourock relatives
are.  Send me Mail.

Liam

    My maiden name is Nesmith and my father always told us we
    we're of Scottish descent.  However, when my cousin visited
    Scotland afew years back, he found no Nesmiths, Naismiths or 
    what ever.  Does anyone out there know if this is a Scottish
    name and what part of Scotland it is peculiar to?  Maybe my
    cousin was looking in the wrong place.
    
    Thanks
    
    Susan

    Peter Nesmith used to play for the Monkeys if my mind
    serves me right.  Any relation Susan?  Anybody out there know
    who the Monkeys are :-) ?
    
    George

    
    
    	It was Mike Nesmith of the Monkees George.. :-)
    
    	Peter was Peter Tork.
    
    							mike

    Mike's right.  It was Mike Nesmith who was a member of the Monkee's
    and, later, became notorious for creating one of the first music
    videos (Elephant Parts).  We don't know if he's related or not,
    although he bears a strong family resemblance.  There are VERY few
    Nesmith's in the States.  Are there any in Scotland?
    
    
    Susan

    re: .17
    
    George, you must be about my age!  

    Nae Nesmiths?  Not quite...    There's one Nesmith and about 50
    Naismiths in the Clyde Coast telephone directory (which covers southern
    Glasgow down to Ayr and beyond).    It's not the most common name
    (I don't know any personally), but does exist - apart from the Monkee,
    I think there was a famous Scottish painter (18th century?) called
    Naismith - can check if anyone's interested.   I seem to recall
    the name from school lessons at Glasgow's Art Gallery, a few year
    ago... :-)

    Thank you very much.
    
    I'd be interested in the painter - and I appreciate your information
    on the Clyde Coast Ne/Naismiths.
    
    Susan Dudek

    RE: -1
    
    While Alan is more able to check out Nesmith are you NOW related
    to the 'Dudek' who is playing for the Broncos these days.
    
    Don the Hunter.
    

    I have a brother-in-law who lives in Denver.  But he's John, not
    Joe.  
    
    Spd