Conference rocks::weight_control

    Sounds familiar to me -- my Weight Watcher lecturer calls it an
    "attitude plateau". Sounds just like what you describe -- close
    to goal -- probably lots of people telling you how good you look,
    some telling you that you should stop dieting because you look too
    thin. Unfortunately, I can't really remember her recommendations
    on how to get out of it. Try to focus on your original goals (keep
    that picture handy, as well as those outfits ). Maybe try a new
    recipe (I'm eating some lentil pasticcio now -- a new recipe that
    has inspired me a little) -- did you know that cole slaw counts
    as vegetables and two fats? That did a lot for me a few months ago.
    You can also ask for the 'Breaking Through' pamphlet -- it's geared
    to helping people through plateaus. I asked for a vegetarian plan
    last week -- just to try something different to help break the 
    monotony.... 
    
    Good luck -- 
    Sue
    

Pat, I believe one of the things that could be in your way is that
you need to make the second phase of the commitment which is "I will
maintain my new weight".  If you don't allow yourself to reach your
goal, you never have to make that commitment.  I am convinced that's
what's in my way, but I'm still at it because I have vowed that this
is the last time I will do this.

You have to learn to cope with the fact that people notice all along
the way when you're losing, and now that you're not going to be 
doing that anymore, you need to come up with something new for them
(or for you) to notice.  

Maybe decide on a very special treat for yourself for reaching
your goal.  A complete make-over, or a special outfit, right
down to the lingerie, or a new hiking outfit, or whatever fits
your lifestyle.  Make it the cadillac and don't have any regrets.

I agree, try a new recipe.  Some suggestions from the "Favorites"
cookbook:  German Stuffed meatloaf, Mexican bake (that's not the
exact name, but it's opposite the meatloaf recipe), Chicken Enchiladas,
Chicken, Cheese, and Biscuits.  IMHO, they're all good.

YOU CAN DO IT! And, you'll inspire all of us!

Liz

    	Boy do I know this one...  Every person has a different solution
    to this problem.  For me, it usually means radically changing what
    I eat, and staying away from the house/food sources and getting
    out and doing things.  Absolutely keep that picture handy.  Also
    look at the kinds of activities that you are doing.  If you are
    a "stress" eater, look for that source of stress, sometimes simply
    being aware of your own "triggers" helps.  Lastely, but most important,
    Take it ONE DAY AT A TIME.  So you don't loose today, ok no problem,
    get back on the diet tomarrow.  NOW I have made some assumptions
    here that I should state.  First you are eating foods that are not
    on the plan, and secondly more of them. Second, you environment
    hase become more stressfull (home work etc...)
    	One last note, the closer you are to your goal the harder it
    is.  This statement is true not only from the stand point mentioned
    in .1, but also your body will also (to some degree) fight you as
    well, but this can be over come through persistance.
    
    						Paul S. (who is on a
    						plateu..........)

    Well, some of you have hit the nail on the head with your comments
    and observations.
    
    Yes, people have been telling me how skinny I am.  My next door
    neighbor walked over this past weekend while I was outside working
    in shorts and told me I'm TOO thin.  Since I'm already below the
    low end of the recommended range for my height, I've been secretly
    wondering if she could be RIGHT!  But the bottom line is, I want
    to be the size I used to be, and that's 5 - 10 pounds less than
    I weigh now.
    
    I can easily identify some of the cause for my problem, though I don't
    have the foggiest idea what to do about it.  Our lifestyle has always
    been about 300% more hectic than I like, but lately it's been even
    worse.  We haven't eaten dinner at home for two full weeks. Work has
    cranked up, we've both been on the road more than usual, and gardening
    season has started up here in Texas in a big way. Our leisure time has
    dwindled to almost nothing, and though I'm a person who loves to cook
    more than most, I can't get excited about starting to fix dinner at
    8:00 pm.  So we eat out. 
    
    Our stress levels are at an all-time high.  My husband and I are both
    in positions that are in a great deal of limbo with this reorg that is
    so strongly rumored to happen.  For example, I just found out that my
    boss has a new job.  He started yesterday.  The people in his group
    have been told nothing officially.  I found out from a manager who just
    happened to be in a meeting with my boss last week and found out
    through casual conversation.  Who do I work for now? Your guess is as
    good as mine.  That's not the end of the world I know, but it sure does
    tend to create a knot in the pit of your stomach. 
    
    Sometimes it seems like the only thing there is to look forward
    to is eating.  Sigh...
    
    							Pat

    PAT
       YOU CANNOT LOOSE WEIGHT EATING OUT!!!! I Commend you for not
    gaining any weight. When your schedule comes back to norm pick up
    week 1 or 2 of quick weight loss. That will put you back in the
    black. 
        YOU CAN DO IT!       
                     Ive lost 15 lbs in 3 weeks. It can be done.
                          GOOD LUCK from the ex. FAT KID STEVE

    This morning I got up earlier than usual and cleaned all the rotten
    produce out of the fridge.  I made up a loooong grocery list with good
    stuff on it, and tonight I'm going to the grocery store.  We're eating
    out tonight, and when I get home my only goal is to put away all the
    groceries and wash all the produce so it's ready to make big healthy
    salads.  Tomorrow night we start eating at home again.  I've made a
    quick list of 15-minute dinners and put it in a kitchen drawer, so when
    I get home at 8:00 too tired to think I can pull it out and come up
    with something. 
    
    And just to give myself a little incentive, I'm going to treat myself
    to some new herbs to plant in my garden.  Then I'll feel obligated
    to use them, right???  (^:
    
    Thanks eveyone for listening.  It's no fun to be around negative
    people, and I've felt pretty guilty for subjecting y'all to the
    negative note I wrote in here the other day.  But sometimes this
    rat-race lifestyle really gets to me, and when that happens I eat.  And
    eat. And eat. 
    
    Thanks for the support.  Wish me luck!
    
    							Pat

    Pat,
    
         If you have a microwave, why don't you prepare some meals ahead
    of time and freeze them?  That way, you can come home on those nights
    you don't feel like cooking, zap something in a hurry and eat a
    healthy, homemade meal.
    
    Denise
    

    When I need to eat out, I try to go to a place where I can get steak,
    fish, or salad. I also can eat out successfully at Chinese places.
    
    At a Chinese place, I order a small soup.  I skip rice, egg rolls
    and all that.  I order a main dish (preferably hot rather than sweet).
    I use chopsticks and pick out the chunks of protein and the veggies,
    leaving the bulk of the sauce behind, but getting enough to flavor
    the food.  
    
    My weight's dropping steadily -- I've got 30 pounds off now.
    
    Holly

	It sounds like you've gotten things back under control, Pat; I'm
	sure getting your meal planning back on track will help with a 
	lot of the stress you've been feeling.

	I agree with Holly, it *is* possible to eat out and still lose 
	weight.  You cn't take the attitude that eating out is an excuse 
	to ignore proper eating habits; the fried chicken is *not* the
	same as broiled fish, just because they're on the same menu :-).
	You also have to avoid the "we're eating out so of course I have
	to order a drink" syndrome; alcohol uses up a *lot* of optionals!
	Ditto on the sweet desserts (get a fresh fruit cup instead).

	Mexican restaurants can be good places, too.  A chicken tostada 
	has lots of veggies, 1 bread, and a reasonable amount of protein.
	Again, stay away from the deep fried entrees.

	If you think in terms of depriving yourself to lose weight, you'll 
	put it back on when you go back to "eating like a normal person."
	It is possible to enjoy life without being out of control, but it
	takes a serious effort to retrain your thought patterns.

	Beverly (who's finally out of her why-bother slump herself!)

>>    	If you think in terms of depriving yourself to lose weight, you'll 
>>	put it back on when you go back to "eating like a normal person."
  
    Some of us in OA have a different approach that I'd like to mention.
    As a compulsive overeater, I no longer believe that I can ever eat like
    a normal person, and I've had to do some grieving about this.  I
    want to be a normal person, but I'm not!  When I eat sugar and flour,
    I obsess about food constantly.  When I cut those foods out, I have
    a pretty normal response to *other* foods.
    
    I know that some lucky people can get the weight off, and then return
    to a maintenance plan and eat fairly normally.  I wish I were one!
                                            
    Anyway, I share this to give another point of view to this string.
    Having accepted this, and grieved quite a bit about it, I now find
    that I am moving into acceptance, and starting to think much more
    creatively about all the other wonderful foods in the world.
    
    Holly

    Holly,
    
    I found your response to be the most insightful and honest appraisal
    of a real recurring problem. I have printed out your response and
    tacked it up on my board as a reminder of potential problems yet
    to be encountered and the hard but realistic way to deal with the
    problem. I am really impressed. If this is the type of work being
    done at OA, I just might join.
    
    Thanks again,  Joel

    Glad it was helpful, Joel.  It's been a hard thing for me to accept,
    but the acceptance has brought some sanity and serenity because
    for me, I know this is true.
    
    OA isn't for everybody.  I hated it the first time I tried it --
    I thought the people were a bunch of rigid control freaks who were
    pretty dysfunctional.  I tried it 10 years later in a different
    area, and had a totally different experience.  Perhaps I found meetings
    I liked better; on the other hand, perhaps I was ready.
    
    OA provides wonderful support.  Every time I go to a speaker meeting,
    I hear people who have the same disease (compulsive overeating)
    that I do.  I can identify with so much that they say.  I listen
    in amazement as they say that getting the weight off happens if
    you work the program, but the real gifts of the program come with
    the serenity you get from being free of obsessing about food all
    the time.  The weightloss is secondary.  My sponsor listens to me,
    and guides me, she doesn't try to control me or force me to do things
    that don't feel right.
    
    I am experiencing serenity sometimes.  It means that I have whole
    chunks of my life that aren't based on either eating or obsessing about
    not eating/how I should be losing weight. 
                                             
    I am learning and growing.  I am accomplishing things in this program
    that I'd given up on ever being able to do, one day at a time.
    
    Thanks for your note.
    
    Holly
                                             

	Re: .10:

	Thanks, Holly, you stated much more clearly what I meant.  When I 
	said

 >>  If you think in terms of depriving yourself to lose weight, you'll 
 >>  put it back on when you go back to "eating like a normal person."

	the rest of the thought was "On the other hand, if you think in 
	terms of learning to eat in a way which is healthy, you'll find
	that it is something you can do for the rest of your life."  It's
	not easy, but it is possible.

	Like you, Holly, I have to stay away from sugar pretty much 
	completely (I can have a little on a full stomach, but I have to 
	be extremely careful), and wheat in any form is Right Out.  Yes,
	it's hard to accept.  When I first found out about the wheat 
	allergy, I tested it occasionally, until I really convinced myself
	that it wasn't worth the way it made me feel.  Even after 8 years,
	I still get into the self-pity sometimes, but even then I'm not 
	tempted.  Hopefully I'll get to the same place with sugar someday.

	Beverly

    Hi,
    
    I've been reading this conference recently to get some support in
    my program to lose weight. It's been *great* reading back over all
    the notes; I've gotten so much insight from everyone's comments!
    
    I was just thinking on writing a note about what Beverly and Holly
    (and others?) have been talking about in the last few notes.
    
    I know that I have to change the way I think about food, my eating
    habits, maintenance, etc. I'm having a hard time accepting the fact
    that what I"m learning now in Weight watchers, needs to be a LIFE-TIME
    program for me.  It's hard to accept that, if I want to stay at
    a healthy weight, I can never eat like I did before.  It's tough
    to realize that the self-control I"m learning to exercise on my eating
    patterns will have to be there permanently.  
    
    I "know" what I have to do, but there is resistance to it, deep
    inside.
    
    Holly, your comments about the process you went through to accept
    this was very helpful to me.  
    
    Thanks for the help,
    Rachel

    Hi Rachel --
    
    This is a hard one, and I think it explains why so few people keep
    the weight off.                                
    
    You refer to the "process I went through" -- I just want to reiterate
    that it's an *ongoing* process for me, one day at a time.  I know
    I will have to work on this again, around the holidays, for example.  
    It's definitely a 'present tense' process  :-)
    
    Holly

    I just reread the last few notes for the third time and it still
    has an enormous impact on me. It really strikes a nerve. Last night
    at my Optifast meeting, we (with a little push from me) started
    a conversation centered on this whole idea. Boy was that a heavy
    session but very helpful. We resolved nothing last night, but you
    could see the little light bulbs going off in everyone leaving all
    with lots to think about.
    
    I think I can relate my current *serenity* and success to the attitude
    I went into Optifast with way back in December, and that was to
    do it for the health of it, not the looks or the scale or the waist
    measurement. I am refeeding now and feel very comfortable with my
    eating habits because they are healthy, and oh yes, and by the way,
    I just happen to be losing or maintaing my weight as well. But the
    real gain has been the serenity and the healthy eating habits.
    
    Lets continue this note. I am most anxious to hear everyones thoughts
    on this matter. It is really making sense.

Yup, Holly really hit the chocolate bar on the almond with this one!

Sometimes I'm still in the "angry" phase at realizing I cannot go
back to eating like I used to and keep the weight off.  And sometimes
I get swallowed up in the self-pity.  However, I know the choice is
ultimately mine.

One thing that makes me mad is that sometimes in my WW meetings people 
get down on the idea of things like Opti Fast or gastric bypass.  
As if WW was the right thing for everyone!  I don't think it is.  
It's right for me, but not for everyone.  I try to remind folks that
not everyone's eating problem is the same.  Come on now, do any of
us think Opti or surgery is FUN?!

Thanks, this is what I needed, too.

Liz

    In the same way, some people in OA get down on Weight Watchers -- there
    are a number of people who lost and gained weight through WW a number
    of times before discovering that the OA approach was what worked best
    for them.  I think people tend to find what works for them, and not to
    stay in organizations that don't work for them. 
    
    Others express their anger about diet clubs and fasting programs
    where the major motivation appears to be making money for the promoters
    at the overeater's expense.
    
    One very brave woman in OA got up a couple of weeks ago and explained
    that she uses both OA and WW together -- OA for the serenity and
    the sponsorship, and WW for a very specific food plan that works
    for her, and allows her to eat controlled amounts of sugar and flour.
    (Many OA people cut out sugar and flour altogether, but some can
    eat some of it.)
    
    I've tried just about everything except a fasting program, and I'm
    really at home in OA at this point in my life.  Speaking only for
    myself, on WW I experienced constant food obsession because I was
    eating so much more bread/carbs than I ever would left to my own
    devices.  I spent an inordinate amount of time on food preparation, and
    I also ate some of the frozen desserts.  I've found that I have to cut
    out sugar and flour in order not be crazy around food.  WW works, it
    just doesn't work very well for me.  I have a very simple food plan now
    that is primarily protein, salads, vegetables and vitamins. 
              
    I like the way we can learn from each other here about what works
    for each of us.  Another form of "valuing differences"!
    
    Holly