Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Face facts. IF both parties feel the same. Aproach her with a contract
    of what you want or would like to have. And see what goes down there. 
    
    List things like:
    -Non costodial visataions
    -paying for her college endivers as in Night School programs leading
    towards either a batchlors or an assoc in some acdimia that would earn
    her a living. Pay half, negating alimony/maintence. 
    -she pays her fair share for child support
    -you get the abode and either buy her out with the college dho-dha or
    as part of the settlement
    -
    
    older children do get a voice in where they live and with whom. Execpt
    when the mom does a drag out fight and cry on the stand in court. 
    
    Negotiation with her via a mediator vs getting the hired guns/lawyers
    in might be a good first step as 'we can make this nicie-nice, or we
    can make this nasty-nasty.' And go from there. 
    
    Outline what you want, what you don't want, what you can live with,
    what you cannot live with. There will be things as you draw this
    outline up that you will find that can be used as a bargining chip to
    trade or sweeten the pot with, if she plays with you vs against you.
    
    What you don't want is an out and out bloody civil war. And if it
    happens, remember that there will be an end to it. And there will be
    some very dark times. Read quark::mennotes. There is Master Sune(sp)
    The Art of War. Read it or get the tape and listen to it. For as we
    know a better warrior can defeat a nation state without lifting a
    spear.
    
    
    
    Peace
    

    
    I'll admit I have little experience with Mass. divorce, but from
    following this file and MENNOTES file, I can say that you'll probably
    find the situation in Mass at least as bad, if not worse, as it was
    5 years ago.  For one thing, with three kids you will be trying to 
    survive on probably less than 25% of your salary.  Chances of getting
    custody are not much better than they were.  Unless you can _prove_
    she should _not_ get the custody, you're chances are not good.

    fred();

    My husband and I just ended a court custody in him trying to get
    custody of his children from his first wife.  First of all you have to try
    or you will never know.  But please let me warn you, unless you can
    prove that she is not fit to have custody you will not have a very good
    chance.   
    The older children can have a say in who they want to live with and the
    courts will listen to this.  More than likely the court will appoint a 
    Guardian et Litem who is supposed to be an objective party and
    interview both you and your wife and children.  The Guardian et Liem
    will them "recommend" to the court where he feels the children are best
    suited.  As far as other people's opinonions on where the children
    would be best suited, is not considered by the courts.  
    
    All of this of course is in the future, and you are no where near this
    point today.  I would agree with the previous noter and trying to sit
    with your wife and stating what you would like and negotiating before
    you go to court or see a mediator.  Hopefully, she feels the same way
    you do and will agree to divorce.  If not it can get very bitter and 
    ugly.
    
    My current husband did negoitate with his his first wife and he remained in
    the marital home (the wife wanted nothing to do with it) and we have
    his children almost every weekend and all summer.  He had to buy her
    portion of the house and give her a cash settlement along with a hefty
    child support  (alimony in disguise) payment.  
    Their divorce was somewhat amicable and they both did negotiate before
    they went to court.    
    

    

    If you would think as a "Mother" does in entering into this, then you
    will be in the same position as the "Mother" usually ends up in.  If
    you take custody of the kids, have her moved out of the house, and
    then make her fight you to get them back, and delay, delay, delay the
    divorce for as long as you can, then you can just about guarantee
    that you will end up with custody of all the kids.  The whole key to
    this thing, is to be confident enough to know you are the correct 
    parent and act accordingly.  Do not discuss this with your wife prior
    to taking this action however, this will give her the opportunity of
    doing the same thing to you.
    
    If she works and goes to school just as you work, then she does not
    have the upper hand of being a stay at home "MOM", the court will tend
    to view her as they do any working parent.
    
    Find an excellent lawyer, but the main thing is to take control and
    not give her the opportunity of doing it first.   With Children the
    ages of yours, the court will definitely listen to where the older
    ones want to live it it comes down to that, the younger one is at
    a border line age, and would most likely be kept with the older two,
    but the main thing, is that the court does not like to remove kids 
    from the parent who has them, if its you then you win, if its her,
    then she will win unless you prove she is a bad mother, and that is
    almost impossible to do.  
    
    Take control, think like a mother:-)  Good Luck!

    My ex husband and I went thru a custody battle in Mass. It was about
    10 years ago. He went for the gusto. He tried to prove me an unfit
    mother. He married a woman. Obtained a four bedroom house. Tried to
    prove that 'he' was the stable person. He did quite a few underhanded
    things at the time. As DSS swooped in (he made some 'really' outlandish
    statements about me). I had a lawyer, the kids had a lawyer, he had a
    lawyer. DSS did an investigation on me. The kids lawyer looked into us.
    (MY ex hadn't paid any child support) He was also from another state.
    The kids lawyer said he thought my boys were 'all american boys'. They
    played little league. Went to scouts etc. All the kids were spoken to.
    My oldest daughter went to live with him for about 3 months. My boys
    were awarded to me. I did eventually get custody of my daughter. That a
    whole other story in itself. Away went the wife and the four bedroom
    house. I now get my child support and we still battle in courts. His
    attitude about the custody made it very bitter. When he comes out to
    visit he can't come to the house. The kids are all over 18 now so alot
    of this (I hope) will end or go away.
    
    My advise to you is to work it out with her before hand. Don't let it
    get to a bitter - out and out war. Make sure you are fair and make sure
    she will see the kids. Work out the divorce papers with a mediator if
    you have too. She may not want the responbility of the kids. Sounds
    like you are carrying most of the load now. Work out a fair offer to
    her. You should know however that divorce is very bad on kids. Who ever
    keeps the kids you should try to keep them as stable as possible.
    That's important in all this upheaval.

    	A friend of mine had an ugly divorce a few years ago. His wife was
    an alcoholic, and she tried to commit suicide a couple of times while
    the kids (like ages 2 and 4 at the time, I believe) were in her care.
    He tried to get custody of the kids (in Mass.), but they awarded
    custody to the mother. There have been numerous other incidents since
    then. Whenever they have a disagreement, she'll accuse him of child
    abuse and get DSS involved, and his visitation rights go away for a
    while. Now he has remarried, and his wife actually works for DSS. They
    decided to fight for custody of the kids. The ex-wife hired a GAL. To
    make a long story short, not only didn't he get custody, but at the
    hearing, he was told that if he even *tried* to get custody again, he
    would lose all his visitation rights. Seems fair.

    No, 
    but it seems that it's par for the course...sick..really sick.