Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    Michele,
    
    If you recall, and I hope you do, I put together "THE GROUP" along
    with Ron B. We met a few times in MR0-1 and discussed what to do
    along time ago. I have searched out what to do and have established
    political clout to hear US. A congressional hearing was being put
    together to hear all this. All WE had to do is WRITE THE LETTERS and
    make an effort to change the system (WHICH CAN BE DONE), but NO one
    wanted to do it. So, I went forward on my own because NO one wants to
    get "involved" but they sure want to complain. I still have all my
    info, still have my connections and yes Michele, because I've continued
    to do my "work for the cause", I just might have my sons by June of
    1991. It takes time in the law books as I told everyone, BUT, it seems
    people would rather talk about how screwed over they were instead of 
    DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT..  I have !!  It is paying off !!!!!!!
    
    Tell John to go after his daughter !!!!!  He can do it.....
    
    There is no flamming intended here..
    
    Doug

    IMHO none of this will change until the NCP's band to gether into some
    viable political force.  Pressure must be brought to bare on the
    legislature and Governor to have fair child support guidelines. 
    Pressure must be brought to bare on the judiciary to have them uphold
    the laws on child support, child visitation (contempt), and fair
    awards of custody.  Aslo changes need to be made in society to the
    attitude that any of these changes are "anti-mother" and Non-PC.
    
    I see a lot of NCP's that will do a lot of griping about what is going
    on (nothing personal here), but few who will actually *DO* anything
    or even contribute to organizations such as FAIR (of which I am not 
    a member but the only one I can think of off the top of my head)
    that *are* trying to make some of these changes or even write letters
    to their political representatives.
    
    fred();

   Is that why they call Mass. "The Tax State"?

   Seriously though, this goes to show how state governments are incompetant.
   If you think about it, ALOT of states are too lazy to do anything about
   this.  The reasons being:

   1)  It would take a staff of people in order to track down these NCP's

   2)  This staff would cost money to pay for salaries, computer equipment,
       and other various resources

   3)  In order to accomplish the above, taxes would have to be raised which
       obviously cause an uproar among citizens

   I'm sure that there are alot of other reasons why they say that they can't
   track down NCP's.  It's too easy to get lost, provide another social security
   number to employers so they can't be traced by SS#, etc.  It would cost
   a small fortune to do the above on a case by case business.

   Based on my experience though and from other people like myself, we 
   don't go into hiding.  How many of these NCP's are un-employed because
   of the employment industry.  How many are criminals that are already
   in prison.  How many are actual NCP's that paid through the nose and
   finally called it quits after getting shafted again?

   There are so many questions to be answered...

   I saw a good show (I know it was Oprah but I knew the DA that was being
   questioned from experience) and she was asking DA Michael Heavican in
   Lincoln, NE child support issues.  He and another lawyer from Lincoln
   were sitting in the jail house with about 10 fathers who were jailed
   because they couldn't/wouldn't provide support to their ex-wives.

   The lawyer that was with the DA represented the fathers (BTW, she was
   a female lawyer who was trying to insure the fathers rights were upheld).

   Oprah asked him a simple question which he avoided like the plague and 
   it was, "What about father's who pay child support on time and regularly
   who are denied visitation by the mother or the court system?"  He replied,
   "That is not the issue.  The issue is on fathers who do not pay support."
   The next question was, "Don't you think that father's who are fed up
   being denied visitation rights, are calling it quits because the judicial
   system does not enforce THEIR rights?"  His reponse was, "That does
   not matter because the issue at hand is father's who are not paying".

   The crowd giggled a little then one of the father brought it up saying
   that he was in jail because he was paying regularly and then his
   ex asked for an increase and the judge granted it.  He kept up his
   regular payments but he could not afford the increase because he had
   to buy food for the family he was now.  Well since he couldn't pay
   the increase, the judge sentenced him to 6 months.  Well guess what
   now?  Everyone looses.  The tax payers are paying for this guy to 
   sit in jail, his currently family is not getting any income so they
   are now on welfare, the ex that was getting money is now on welfare,
   and the judge is out fishing....

   Sad but true.

   It's sad to say that but I honestly feel it's the way the judicial 
   system works for political groups.  If they don't agree with a group
   and follow the groups decision then the group will black-ball them 
   out of a job.

   As mention in previous notes that I have entered, NCP's who do not
   care cause the pain for all of the others.  It's another minority
   issue that if one of the individuals in the minority does something 
   wrong, then the entire race/minority is convicted.

   Sorry I got off track.

   Thanks for entering the note!!

    
    
    Doug,
    
    Of course I remember the group.  And I am very glad to hear that you
    may have your sons so soon.  They deserve to be with you and to benefit
    from your love for them.
    
    I think I should have posted this note in another conference.  My 
    concern was more of how do we get the general public upset enough to
    want to do stop paying support for other peoples children.  I guess
    I am looking for ideas which an everyday joe could use.  One thing
    I have seen happen when NCparents do make a showing is that they tend
    to be put down due to the fact that they are being sh*t on by the
    system.  It's like the ones who are actually going through the process
    are denied thier rights to voice thier opinions merely because they
    are part of the system.  Does that make any sense at all??
    
    Whereas if everyday joe who does not know the pain that NCparents go
    through would wake up and get angry enough about paying support for
    children that are not his own, it may make more of an impact on the
    govt who controls the system.  
    
    I paid very close attention to the segments because I am affected
    by the pain of the situation first hand, but also because I know
    I am affected by the situation as a taxpayer.  Now I don't know about
    the rest of the folks in MASS, but I am not independently wealthy
    and want my tax dollars to be spent on causes which for whatever
    reasons really need the money.  Paying to support other peoples
    children merely due to the fact that one of thier parent's chooses
    not to is just not a good enough reason in my eyes.  This is clearly
    a case which can be changed.  I guess the question still is how?
    
    
    Best of luck with your boys!!
    
    Take care,
    Michele

   re:112.3

   >>Based on my experience though and from other people like myself, we 
   >>don't go into hiding.  How many of these NCP's are un-employed because
   >>of the employment industry.  How many are criminals that are already
   >>in prison.  How many are actual NCP's that paid through the nose and
   >>finally called it quits after getting shafted again?
    
    Yeah, Kenn, you and others like my husband are decent guys, though.
    You have to understand that the show Michele is talking about showed
    a particular "gentleman" who left his wife and children in their
    upper-middle class home and flatly refuses to pay her a dime and
    she can't find a job.  They interviewed the woman in her home where
    she played a message that her ex-husband left on her answering machine
    and he told her that she should go down to the Welfare office if she
    needs financial assistance because "that's what they're there for."
    Meanwhile, another camera crew went out to film a passing shot of
    the luxury condo this guy lives in and also filmed his parking spot
    where he had parked his Porsche.  Where does this guy get off asking
    the Mass. taxpayers to pay his child support?  Seeing this really
    fried my *ss.  They showed other guys too, who of course refused
    to be interviewed.  My father was at my house and saw this segment
    and he had a great suggestion.  He said, "Why don't they just publish
    all the names of these guys in huge letters in the Boston Globe each
    day until they pay the support the courts have ordered them to?
    If you saw the humongous files of "deadbeat daddies" in this state,
    you wouldn't believe it.  It's *these* guys who can afford the support
    but refuse to pay that are ruining it for the rest who are unemployed
    or whatever.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    Kenn, you are right when you say it is the bad guys that give NCP
    fathers a bad name.  And even though I am the exception, I'm not so
    sure that guys like you and my ex are the majority.  My ex is excellent
    when it comes to support payments and visitation but I know quite a few
    other divorced custodial moms who have just the opposite.  I don't know
    anyone whose situation is a comfortable as mine; one comes close, but
    all the others are horror stories.  Two of my friends would love to
    have their ex's visit their children, support or no support.
    
    They had a "sweep" of deadbeat dads in our county and that made the
    front page.  Of course, they don't do front pages on NCP's who pay on
    time or are very involved with their children.   It's too bad that the
    story doesn't get out often on the 'good guys'.
    
    Susan
    

    Hopefully having the Dept of Revenue enforce against these guys will
    begin to have an effect.  Unfortunately, the courts are very reluctant
    to jail these guys -- admittedly for some fairly valid reasons -- and
    they know it.  
    
    I do take issues with one thing that was said, I think by the
    basenoter.  There are some NCP's paying exorbitant amounts of child
    support, there may even be many who fall into that classification  But,
    I do no believe that it is most.  The reason that the Guidelines -- and
    I don't want to argue the validity of the Guidelines as they stand --
    were adopted was because too many divorced mothers and children (and
    this seems to have correlated with the advent of no-fault divorce) were
    living in or near to poverty.  Sure some of them were getting no
    support but many of them were getting the court ordered support.  It
    just wasn't adequate.  
    
    I also don't think we should assume that there is necessarily a
    correlation between non payment of support and the fathers not having
    contact with the children.  Yes, I know that there are women --too
    many, in fact -- who do everything they can to deprive fathers of
    relationships with their parents.  But, I also know that there are men
    who not only walk away from their financial responsibilities but from
    their children all together.
    
    Yes my friends, these are the slimebags who give you guys the bad rap.  

  re: previous few

  Thanks for providing me with more details on the show.  I wish they would
  show it out here!

  If I knew a father who was not paying because of his personal pride,
  I would be one of the first ones to boot him in the @ss and
  drag his butt down to the court house and throw him in jail myself.


  Kenn  

    
    
    The main focus of the show was to let the public know that the DOR 
    Child Support Enforcement Division is NOT doing thier job.
    
    This was the jist of the program.  So I honestly do not see how
    anyone can think that the DOR will take care of this problem.
    
    
    Michele

    I am a custodial parent who recieves no child support. I feel that
    one of the main reasons many non custodial parents do not pay is 
    because a great many of the settlements are grossly unfair to the 
    non costodial parent. When they see haw badly their getting shafted
    they throw up their hands and pay nothing. This certaintly may not
    be true in all cases but I feel it is true in a great many. The
    custodial parent in my opinion must see that the non custodial parent
    gets a fair shake. Most court settlements defining child support
    are clearly not fair and when you have a system that is bascally
    not fair and is unjust you will have massive non complience.