Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    
    Michele,
    
    He may never let go, and then he may.  No one but, John knows.
    
    But let's forget John for a moment.  Perhaps a better question is
    how long are you going to wait for what you want?  You have no
    control over John.  Are you willing to leave the question of 
    what you want for you up to John or are you reaching a point of
    wanting to tell him to fish or cut bait?  That is how this note
    sounds to me.
    
    Steve
    

    
    
    Steve,
    
    I know that I will have to decide whether or not to stay in this
    relationship or to leave it.  I have given myself a time frame to
    go by.  Even talked to my landlady about the situation and agreed
    that I will give her 3 months notice if I do decide to leave.
    We both live together and logistically it would take both of us that
    long to get our living arrangements settled. 
    
    So in my head I know how much longer I will give this relationship,
    but in my heart???   I am not one to give ultimatums.  This issue has
    been discussed before, and I have told him that I will leave if I am
    not happy with the progress.  His response was that I should do what
    I have to do, but that he would be very angry with me if I did decide
    to leave.
    
    That in itself really bothered me, that he would be angry.  I can
    understand him being upset, as I know I will be if that is the case.
    But I feel more like it will be a very sad thing not one that is done
    out of anger or to cause anger.
    
    But again, this is easy to talk about, but very hard to follow through
    on if it comes to that point.  I think what is really bothering me the
    most is that I really feel that it is going to come to that point.  I
    don't forsee us getting married anymore.  It has even got to the point
    that folks that are friends of our friends have begun to ask us why
    we are not married yet.  It just seems like everyone wants us to get
    married, but he wants to wait.  It is very frustrating.
    
    Mi

    Have the two of you ever received (or considered getting) couple
    counseling?  Do you consider your relationship worth the effort and the
    expense?  If so, it sounds like the two of you could benefit from
    talking together with an objective third party.
    
    He sounds like he could use some counseling on his own to learn how to
    live with the realities of his life and to make the best of the
    situation he's in.
    
    Good luck to both of you, and to his daughter.  It sounds like there is
    some strong love keeping all this together; I hope the three of you can
    retain that as you reach your decisions.
    
    Karen
         

    Michele,
    
    I've been trying for the last couple days to come up with a reply
    that doesn't sound like I'm coming down on you.  I don't want to
    do that.  I know you really do care or you wouldn't be in here (NCP)
    in the first place. 
    
    Your situation sounds a lot like Doris and mine.  So I can look at
    it a little from John's side.  It was 3 1/2 years before Doris and I
    were married.  There were a lot of things from my first marriage 
    other than just the children part of things that I had to get sorted 
    out before I could feel comfortabel about that kind of commitment
    again.  I thank God that Doris had the courage and understanding to
    hang in there.  John does sound like a man that does care about 
    what's right and wrong and cares about his child (even though he
    can't do much about the situation).  There doesn't seem to be many
    of *those* around these days either.
    
    Both of you are going to have your cross to bare if the relationship
    is going to work.  John's is that he probably *can't* do a whole lot
    about his child and the situation unless he does go back into court.
    Even then he's probably right about support and his chances of getting
    custody.  Yours is that there *is* going to be someone else in John's
    life that is going to take up a lot of his life and emotional capacity. 
    The situation is going to last for many years.  There's no Fariy God 
    Mother to fix it all, and it's not going to work itself out by the
    time for the late news. 
    
    I can't tell you what John should do or will do.  I can give you
    a couple of things that *you* can do to help the stiuation.
    One thing you can do is to let him know you're on *his* side.  That
    you will work *with* him to help resolve the problems, not to make
    demands on hime that will only add to his problems.  That will mean a 
    lot to him right now.  Maybe try and get him involved in some Father's
    Rights support group or F.A.I.R. to help him work through this and
    give him a sense that he is at least doing *something*.  It's very
    frustrating to have something like this happening and have to feel
    *totally* helpless.  How far you can go is going to be up to you to
    decide.  How far John can go is going to be up to him to decide (but
    hopefully with a little help and persuasion from you).
    
    fred();

    
    
    RE -1
    
    Fred,
    
    I do feel that I am doing as much as I can to help him with this,
    and to help his daughter.  He knows that I am on his side.  One of the
    reasons he is so determined to be a part of his daughter's life is due
    to the affects he has seen in me from my past without a Dad.  He has
     watched some of the things I have had trouble with which are a
    direct result of not having a father around while growing up.  He does
    not want to see his daughter have to go through the pain of it all.
    
    As far as making demands on him.  This can and has at times caused
    problems between us.  He and I will have been together for the better
    part of 5 years in January.  I am ready to make the commitment and he
    isnt.  It really is as simple as that.  
    
    I do honestly try to look at it from his point of view, and can
    honestly understand that making a commitment is much harder for him
    due to what happened in his past relationships.   He wants me to wait.
    I ask for how long??   I don't want to force this issue with him, and
    I am sick of hearing from all our friends "when are you getting
    married".  
    
    
    As for his situation with his daughter.  He is the one who has chosen
    not to take action for his reasons.  I have no input into that
    decision.  He has been using the situation with his daughter as an
    excuse not to make any major moves in his life.  Honestly, if he is
    going to wait for that to change, he is always going to be where he is 
    right now.  
    
    Michele

    
    
    Re: Fred
    
    I see your point, but I disagree.  I also have been where John
    is and, like John, I got myself into it.  I chose no one made
    it for me.  John has to decide what his priorities are and what
    he has the capacity to commit to.  If John feels that the needs
    of his daughter prevent him from committing to a second marriage
    then he owes it to Michele to say so clearly.
    
    
    Re .5
    
    Michele,
    
    You have a life too, and it seems that is being overlooked.  I'm not
    saying that either of you is wrong in this, but you have a right
    to ask for what you need and want.  If you are ready to move on to
    marriage and John is not then perhaps he is not able to be what you
    are asking for - a husband.  John has a choice to make that clearly
    is difficult for him, but then, to say it again, that is HIS problem
    not yours.  
    
    For me, 5 years of promises would be enough, but that is your choice
    to make.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    

I know there is a complex chain of events here. And different people have
been handling the discussion in interesting ways. I hope they have been helpful.
I have one point to make and that is to take your life in your hands and avoid
considering pressure created by your friends or family. At least avoid having
that be your basis for adding pressure to your SO to get married. I believe
that society will win out in most cases. That is, we tend to not break most laws
and we wear clothes even when we're uncomfortable and on and on. I'll bet most
people get married when their friends are getting married, and have kids when
their friends are having kids. It may be that they all honestly want to be doing
it without thinking about keeping up with the Jones', or without subconsciously
proving that they are just as healthy as the others cause they are keeping time
with lifes Passages. But I can't help think about the fact that the outside
pressures can also be inappropriate for us. If you are in a unique situation,
then you may have a unique solution. And you will never be able to live up to
everyone else's requirements for how you should live your life. It might make
them switch topics once your married, but then what will they ask you about ?
Most likely consumerism issues (what you haven't bought) or maybe your not aware
of the latest appropriate diet. Make sure you are able to rise above their 
demands and be answering only yours before you act. You have to live with 
your self, above all else.

In the end you may just want something so bad, that it makes sense to go for it,
after all we only live once. Then again...