Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    	I'd like to say this :
    
    	I have no problems about working with anyone, gender, for the most
    	part is irrelevent. As long as the person knows what they are
    	talking about and works with the team productively.
    
    	BUT,
    
    	However, from experience, a hell of a lot more women have made
    	my working life harder than have men. But then again, it is very
    	difficult to understand, or theorize about, what motivations lie 
    	behind the kind of behaviour that tends to get in the way of the
    	smooth running of a mixed gender working environment. It is
    	incredibly hard to alot any real responsibility for the situation
    	to either gender. In your case Dice, from a womans perspective 
    	could the behaviour you point out not be interpreted as perfectly
    	reasonable interest in a topic of conversation and showing of a
    	wish to participate with the aim of adding value to a discussion?.
    	I know that I gain entry to discussions by such means as saying,
    	'What are you talking about?' or making comments that show that I
    	have something to add that the originators of the conversation may
    	find of worth. It certainly doesn't may me feel good if I get told
    	'Mind your own business!'.
    
    	Just to show that I am not fighting the female side, I can
    	appreciate that in many situations the impressions that may
    	be given by being asked what you are talking about may cause a
    	few question marks to appear in your mind, especially in the
    	area of 'Why do they want to know?'. But can we not put this 
    	down to paranoia?
    
        I think your question is part of a much bigger question that is
    	not actually restricted to the working environment. Maybe something
    	along the lines of :
    
    	How many of you enjoy being in womens company? How many of
    	you hate it?? Do you find it frustrating at times? etc etc.
    
    
    	Steve   *:^)
    	 

    
    		I find the women I work with seem to always be worrying
    	about what the person next to them are doing. I've never had
    	a guy get upset because I've taken two extra minutes for lunch.
    	Maybe its the mother in them.
    
    					        Richard..
    
    
    

    
    
    
    
    
    	re. -1
    
    	I have to agree with that one. There appears to be a problem
    	in the way different people view work. I have suffered from
    	the 'I have had some feedback on the length of your lunchtimes'
    	syndrome with my manager, when you know where it comes from it
    	kinda gets ya a bit annoyed. If I have a problem with someone
    	elses behaviour, I tell them, I don't run around telling my
    	manager. As far as I am aware, I am a adult who is able to 
    	discuss a problem, judge how I feel about it but also listen
    	sympathetically to others points of view. If I am wrong then
    	I am able to accept this, if I am right then I am able to accept
    	this without being unduly offensive to persons who hold a different
    	point of view. 
    
    	I don't see that you can stereotype women as being the only group
    	who would exhibit the " I'm telling " sort of behaviour, but they
    	certainly does stand out when it happens, an whatever the gender
    	of the person behind it, I gets me mad! ( Major cause of fights
    	between my sister and myself as a child were based on very similar
    	situations and behaviours.)
    
    	What does anyone else think about the arguments between the "getting
    	the job done" and "being there at nine" attitudes to work when
    	considered in the situation mentioned in 783.2
    
    
    	Steve *:^)

 I don't work with any women in peer roles.

Not only do I work *for* a woman, but I work with many women as peers.

No problems - if asked for a judgment (I was, wasn't I?) I would say
that the women I have worked for have been better supervisors than the
men.  Those I have worked with as peers have been about the same as the
men.

    Well, I do work with men in peer roles, and I've worked with a lot
    of wonderful men over the years (especially at Digital.)

    However, I've seen some men (in jobs prior to Digital) who could
    never make it past their own prejudice against women in the workplace.
    They felt compelled to stereotype women ANY way they could - and
    just, in general, were incapable of looking at a fellow employee
    and seeing past the fact that the person was a different sex.  

    If they disliked some male employee, they regarded the guy as a
    disliked INDIVIDUAL.  If they disliked some female employee, I'd 
    hear them describe the dislike in terms of stereotyping WOMEN IN GENERAL.

    I'm glad to work at Digital.  In the areas I've seen (so far,) the
    environment is far more enlightened than the general workforce.

My supervisor is a woman.  My manager is a woman.  Her manager is a woman.
I've got female co-workers.  I enjoy working with all of them.  I've had
bad supervisors in the past, both male and female.  I don't consider a
co-worker's sex important as regards my work relationship with them.

				Steve

    	The other security consultant in Valbonne is female, and it is the
    most successful working relationship I have ever had. We have
    complementary expertise - she understands database technology and
    application design and is an excellent organiser; I understand the base
    technology - encryption, DSSA, file systems, communication technology,
    and am completely disorganised in every respect.
    
    	I answer her phone as "Linda Humphrey's secretary" and she answers
    mine as "Dave Monahan's secretary". Quite often the caller will be
    surprised to find that the secretary is a bit vague about where the
    person they are calling is, but can solve their security problem.
    
    	It also happens to work well as a social relationship. She and her
    boyfriend babysat our house and younger daughter while my wife and I
    went to England for a few days for my son's degree ceremony, and we
    return other favours.

    
    gender's irrelevant. this is like asking: how do you like working with
    people? there are some that are tough, some that are easy to work with,
    some that are fun, but no work is accomplished, etc. same statements
    for men or women. 

    
    I have worked with wimmun as peers, as a direct report, and as a
    supervisor. Most have been a pleasure to work with, a couple have
    been a trial, one or two, completely incomptetant. 
    
    Never had a complaint based on gender, nor have I ever categorized 
    any individual shortcoming as a typical gender attribute. 

    I've had women and men, as superiors, subordinates and peers, some 
    were good, some not so good.

    
    From a "woman's" point of view.........
    
    I prefer working with men by far.  I have found in the past that
    working with other women can be VERY frustrating.  I have found that
    women are far too competitive and seem to worry more about the petty
    little problems rather than concerning themselves with what is really
    most important.  I am a secretary in a sales unit and out of a 16
    member sales unit I am one of e women in the unit.  The other two
    women I have found to be alot more professional than that of most
    other women I have worked with in the past.
    
    Men are not quite so into the gossip as women are and men seem to get
    to heart of matters.  My sales unit works very well together as a team
    and we are all very supportive of one another.  I appreciate a thank
    you now and again from my other team members and in working for many
    women in the past - I was merely expected to do tasks and quite frankly
    felt as though I was being "bossed" around.  I don't feel that way with
    the unit I work with now.
    
    This is not an ego booster to you men, just merely an opinion from
    experience.
    
    -Lynn
    

    I have enjoyed my working relationship with women as peers and as
    managers a great deal. Thinking back I can honestly say I have only had
    problems with one who felt the first 30 minutes of the work day was
    for doing her nails. Hearing them clatter on the keys the rest of the
    day was salt for the wound but thats another topic.
    
    -j
    
                         

my current group has around 14 women, 7 men.  Its the most enjoyable bunch
I've ever worked with; far better than the customer environment at NASA, my
old PSS unit, or my Air Force experience.  My personal style does not seem
to generate conflicts with my female coworkers; in environments where there
were more men, I seemed to see more conflicts.  This may be a mark of changes
in me over the years in addition to a reflection of my current work group.

In the Air Force, I worked for 8 different supervisors in four years; 7 were 
men, (3 Captains, 1 Civilian GS-13, 1 Maj, 2 Lt Cols) and one was a woman 
(full Col).  Here at DEC I've worked for 4 different DEC supervisors in four 
years; 3 men and one woman; and three different at NASA, 2 men and one woman.  
Lessee, that's 15 supervisors in ~8 years, of whom 12 were men and 3 were 
women.  If I split them up into the best 5, the worst 5, and the middle 5, 
there are 4 men and 1 woman in each group.

In answer to the basenote question, yes, I enjoy working with women.  Why?
Do I find it frustrating?  Not at all; while some situations at work can
be frustrating, I find the gender of my coworkers not to be one of them.
Do you?  When there are individuals who get on my nerves, I usually don't
think it has much to do with their gender; more often with their style.

DougO

    re .11:  similar experiences, same conclusion
    
    aq
    

    
    But do men really talk about the same things as woman ??
    
    JN.

    RE-.1
    Sure they do sometimes... When I first started DEC I was the only man
    in a group of 17 women, they astounded me with how much they talk(d) about
    sex in graphic detail. I learned alot working with them and listening
    to their conversations.
    
    -j

    
    The previous group I worked in had more woman than men. The
    "girlies" as we called them or "members of the womans ward"
    would talk about all sorts of things as long as it involved
    talk about sexual matters.
    
    JN.

    Sometimes sex is the only thing people can find in common with their
    co-workers.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    -1
    
      Don't be so harsh on those wymyn. :-) 
    
    
    David