Conference quark::mennotes-v1

	 Haahahah,.....sounds like some of the hassles I've gone thru!


	 The only way she can get back at Mr. D is to not let him win.
	 Miss X needs to talk with Mr. B (?) to make sure that
	 anything they hear about each other gets discussed between
	 them.

	 Openness and honesty right now is very important...and so is
	 confronting the other person with what you hear.

	 I lost a very dear friend to me from a situation very similar
	 to this one (the rumour part to cause a breakup).  He
	 believed what he heard without confronting me with it.  He
	 then believed me to be a liar and shut off all communication
	 to me.  To this day, he can't really remember what it is that
	 he was told, but he is still firm in his conviction that I am
	 a liar.

	 Miss X and Mr B have to be very honest and work thru this.
	 Mr D will go away when he sees he's not being effective.
	 Also, Mr D needs to be realized for what he is....conniving
	 and underhanded.  (BTW.....Miss X better be damn sure that Mr
	 D is the culprit)  I would suggest that your Miss X cut off
	 all ties with Mr D so that there will be no basis for anyone
	 to assume these rumours to be true.


	 Wish Miss X good luck...she's going to need it.....If she
	 wants, she can write me....I've been thru a similar situation
	 and she needs to realize she has to be squeeky clean in order
	 to make it work....as well as very honest.


	 kath

    Re: .1
    
    	Ha ha...that's funny....
    
    .1> Miss X and Mr. B have to be very honest and work through this.....
    
        How can Mr. B be honest...he's cheating on Miss A.  How can
        Miss X even expect Mr. B to be honest....mom always said, look
        at what a person DOES not what they SAY !    
    
    K

>                      <<< Note 402.3 by CLOSUS::HERNDON >>>
    
<        How can Mr. B be honest...he's cheating on Miss A.  How can
>        Miss X even expect Mr. B to be honest....mom always said, look
>        at what a person DOES not what they SAY !    

	 I don't remember ever reading the word "cheating."  Mr B is
	 in love with Miss X....and Ms. A is dating Mr. C.  Obviously,
	 just because Ms A and Mr B are living together, and dating
	 others, does NOT imply cheating.

	 There was nothing in the basenote to imply less-than-honest
	 dealings....nor was it implied that any of these people had a
	 momogamous relationship.

	 RE: .2

	 They are in the same organization?  How many people in this
	 organization?  I believe it is possible to still continue
	 doing what they want, in this organization, without
	 acknowledging Mr. D.  I associate with many people...and a
	 few of those people I just tend to ignore (ie, don't carry on
	 conversations with them...especially about personal issues).
	 Also, it's very easy to just act like someone is not
	 there...don't get angry and snub them...but just act like
	 they are not there!

	 kath

    
    Kath,
    
    I believe .3 was referring to the part where it said something about
    Mr. B not being able to make up his mind between Miss A & Miss X...
    I have a friend who is in a similar situation to Miss x (the guy
    she "loves" is living a Miss A) and the way I see it is as long
    as Mr. B is not forced to make a decision he is living the best
    of both worlds...
    
    Otherwise I think your honesty advise was right on.
    
    Chris
    @8^) with my "honesty halo" on

    
    re > (the guy she "loves" is living a Miss A)
    
    oops, living "with " a Miss A, he's not a Miss A yet, unless he
    continues to play both women much longer 8^))))))
    
    Chris

    RE: .4
    
    I guess I came to that conclusion based on the second half of that
    paragraph...
    
   0.>...Mr B can't make up his mind whether to stay with Miss A or leave
         her for Miss X.
    
    Sounds to me like they are involved, don't ya think?  You're right,
    the exact word *cheating* wasn't mentioned...but also keep in mind
    that it was not mentioned that Miss A DOES KNOW about Miss X...so I
    guess we are both making assumptions....
    
    I'd still wonder about Mr. B since he CAN'T make up his mind....why
    would someone have this decision if they weren't involved?
    
    I guess I wouldn't be so worried about what Mr. D's doing but rather
    what's the delay with Mr. B?
    
    K    
            
    

    RE: .7
    
>    Sounds to me like they are involved, don't ya think?  You're right,
>    the exact word *cheating* wasn't mentioned...but also keep in mind
>    that it was not mentioned that Miss A DOES KNOW about Miss X...so I
>    guess we are both making assumptions....

	 True....I came to my conclusion because Miss X was the one
	 that told the basenote author about the entire scenario.  If
	 she knew Miss A was dating someone else, I figured perhaps it
	 was common knowledge to all parties involved.
	 
>    I'd still wonder about Mr. B since he CAN'T make up his mind....why
>    would someone have this decision if they weren't involved?

	 They could be involved.  Some reasons to not be able to make
	 the decision:

	 �  emotional instability (Mr B)
	 �  emotional instability (Ms A)
	 �  the idea of change from something that has been stable
	 �  living together does not mean sleeping together (I know
	    a man now living with his ex girlfriend and dating someone
	    else).  especially in NewEngland, it doesn't seem that
	    easy to just move out on a whim.....takes big money to
	    move.
	 �  Financial instability (either party)

	 or of course

	 �  He just isn't sure what he wants (like you suggested).


	 From the basenote, I didn't get the feeling that Mr B was the
	 problem, but then again, not many details were given.

	 :-)

	 kath
	 
            
    

    re: .0 (NashD)
    
    	   Revenge is a dish best served cold.
    
    	   Try this on for size.
    
    	Miss X's objectives:
    
    		* Rid herself of that scumbag, Mr. D.
    		* Rid Mr. B. of that cheating scumbag Miss A
    		* Have hot, steamy sex with Mr. B for two weeks
    		* Rid herself of that cheating scumbag, Mr. B.
    
    	Solution:
    
    		(1) Select a fairly expensive restaurant and
    		    buy a $25 gift certificate.  Write "expires
    		    MM/DD/YY", where the date is within two or 
    		    three days of the current date.  Buy a cheap
    		    Christmas card.  (More on this later)
    
    		(2) Talk to Mr. D and express interest in having
    		    dinner and drinks... smile... be coy... make 
    		    him invite her out, so she can decide where
    		    they eat.  Set a date and time.  Arrange to 
    		    meet there.
    
    		(3) Call Mr. B and arrange to meet him at the same
    		    place, thirty minutes earlier.  Get some form of 
    		    comittment, so you can be sure Mr. B arranges
    		    things with Miss A such that he has the night 
    		    away.
    
    		(4) Type a note onto the Christmas card inviting 
    		    Miss A and a companion to dinner, compliments
    		    of the house.  Make it seem like she won a 
    		    drawing, or something.  Enclose the gift
    		    certificate, place a 10.1 cent stamp on it
    		    (uncancelled)  put a believable CAR-RT sort
    		    number on it, and hand-deliver it to Miss A's
    		    mailbox.
    
    		(5) Get to the restaurant 20 minutes early, and
    		    arrange for a table close to the entrance
    		    where she can easily be seen.  Order a drink.
    
    		(6) Mr. B arrives.  Order another drink.  Order
    		    dinner.
    
    		(7) Mr. X arrives, sees Mr. B, and either makes a
    		    complete ass of himself, or leaves dejectedly.
    		    (Either way, his zeal is broken, as he knows the
    		    joke is on him).
    
    		(8) Miss A and Mr. C arrive, to the astonishment of
    		    Mr. B.  
    
    Conclusion:
    
    		(9) Mr B leaves Miss A.
    	       (10) Miss A hooks up with Mr. C.
    	       (11) Mr. B has a lot of free time on his hands
    	       (12) Mr. D eats wind
    
    	- Greg

    Ask Mr. B and Miss A if their into threesomes.
    
    Tell everyone that she's avoiding Mr. D because he has been involved
    with a man who has AIDS.
    
    Tell Miss X to break off with the entire group sexually and socially
    and find a completely new object of desire.
    
    Ken
    

    I shouldn't do this but.... I can't help it. The story is being related
    by mr z. We don't know the facts of the story but only an
    interpretation of an interpretation. There is a very large danger here
    but..... I'll rush in anyway.
    
    To me, this tragicomedy has all the appearances of an open relationship
    where people aren't communicating. Screw what d is saying. x is
    involved in a relationship with a and b. It sounds like there are
    different expectations and all three need to straighten out what their
    true relationship is. Then they can be up front about it. Or as upfront
    as people in the same organization can be.
    
    D is feeding on some unhealthy emotional energy coming from x. He has
    expectations because there is "hope." When x can stand up and say "this
    is what my situation is and I'm happy." and look like she's happy then
    he has nothing to feed his hope.
    
    In the mean time, if you absolutely need revenge don't get angry.....
    get even. Slash his tires, glue his check book together, damage his
    credit rating, what ever turns you on. Just remember that what goes
    around comes around and is returned unto you thrice.

    This is what could be called an unhealthy situation.  The best thing I
    usually see happen to these incestuous groups is that they blow up in
    an unforgettably painful way and no one ever speaks to each other
    again.  The worst thing I see happen is that they keep plodding along,
    occasionally adding new members for spice, until they have years' worth
    of crappy memories to pore over.
    
�	 They are in the same organization?  How many people in this
�	 organization?
    
    26 or fewer, I hope, or things will really start getting confusing.
    
    Ray

    I tried to explain all of this to a friend.  She had trouble with the
    algebra so the players became: Ann, Bob, Charlie, Doug, and Xaviera.
    
    Her opinion agrees with mine: forget it, it's a mess.  Xaviera should
    find a man and forget people who want to play games and can't make up
    their minds.
    
    ed

    I dunno about anybody else, but this sounds like the plot of one of
    the soaps my wife watches in the afternoon!
    
    If it weren't for all the pain and real people involved, this could get
    fairly amusing!

    
    If Miss X has been in a similar situation this year then, perhaps Miss
    X should evaluate why she was attracted twice to men with other
    emotional involvements.  Maybe, she is afraid of a relationship?
    (or maybe these guys didn't tell her that they were formerly involved.)
    In either case,  I think that Miss X might want to:
    	- introduce Miss A to Mr. D, perhaps they'll hit it off.
    	- explain to Mr B that his indecision is causing her more
    	depression  than his company is worth.( maybe he'll catch the hint)
    	- spend time enjoying herself.  Work out to get rid of aggressions. 
    	Get involved with community activities, an old hobby and/or work
    	overtime.  Anything to occupy her time and energy.
    	- Adopt a new motto - "so many men so little time..."
    	- Not take revenge.  Word gets around.  Punch a punching bag
    	instead.
    
    I hope this helps!
    
    Rachael
    

    I'm glad this is having a happy ending because I was lost right
    after "Miss A and Mr B are living together". For an old
    fashioned guy like me that was already an indication of more trouble 
    than I would have put up with. :-)/2 

    				Alfred

    If Mr B leaves Miss A to move in with Miss X - I'll be a monkey's
    uncle!  Please tell us if it truly happens...
    

    Hi,
    
    This is Miss X here, just to let you peeps know out there, that
    he didn't leave her.
    
    Answer me, this one question, why do men do things like this, and
    never follow through, if they have no intention of leaving the other
    half, why do they start something that they cannot finish.
    
    It only causes heart ache at the end of the day.
    
    Regards
    
    Miss X
    
    P.S. thanks for all the tips etc.
    
    

>    he didn't leave her.
>    
>    Answer me, this one question, why do men do things like this, and
>    never follow through, if they have no intention of leaving the other
>    half, why do they start something that they cannot finish.
>    
  Reply #1 -     
    Why do WE start something that we cannot finish??? Hmmm. Last I checked
    it took two to tango. Why did YOU choose to pursue something with such
    high stakes?
    
  Reply #2 - 
    We start these things because it is a part of our violent and brutal
    nature. Its just another expression of violence to women, just bashing
    them emotionally instead of physically. Such behavior is a clear
    demonstration of our lack of respect and consideration for the 'tender
    gender'. Maybe it's just another side effect of football....
    
    Reply #3 - 
    Why don't you ask him, and tell us what he says. Seems we've got all
    the other details.
    
    Reply #4 - 
    Maybe he made a mistake, and has deep regrets.
    

    re .22
    
    Naughty, naughty..... that is the type of sexism for which men are
    constantly being beat up these days. I have a female friend who has
    indulged in the same type of behavior repeatedly. It is a personality
    trait and not a sex trait.
    
    If I were you I'd look at the level of self esteem and the capability
    to take assertive action..... And then I'd take a look at the
    relationship.
    
    Dj