Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
      Your situation seems to go completely against what I understand
    to be DEC's philosophy.  It doesn't seem as though this was actually
    planned with Digital in mind.  I can understand your feeling on
    this, as I would re-act the same way.  
      What I would probably do is attend the dinner and split!  Maybe,
    if there were enough other people in your group that felt the same
    way, they might think twice before they plan another "party" like
    this.
    
    	Dan 

Not only would I react the same way, I would additionally make use of the
Open Door Policy to escalate the fact that the planners of this event appear
to be fools. I'm not even sure I'd attend the meeting - I'd probably be "sick"
that day.

-Jack

    re: .0
    
    .0>    How would you all react to a similar situation?

    These people are way out of line.  Dinner is one thing, but dancing?
    No way!  
    
    I would accept their invitation to dinner but politely but firmly
    inform whoever needs to be informed that you won't be staying for
    dancing and tell 'em why.  If you get any static, ask for it in
    writing.
    
    Mike    
    

    
    	I pretty much agree with all the replies, I would tell
    	them to take their dinner, dancing, etc. and put it where
    	the light don't shine... :^) :^) :^)
    
    	But then again, I'm not worried about what my boss thinks
    	about me. If you feel it would hurt you at work, then I'd attend
    	the meeting part, but would make sure they knew I wouldn't be
    	staying past that!!
    
    	G_B
    

    Perhaps a quick demographics exercise would help the 
    situation.  If your plant has an "average" distribution
    of men and women, there's a strong likelihood that there
    will be a lot of men sitting around while the relatively
    few women fend off falling arches. . .
    
    Mostly the story, as told, makes me curious about the
    decision-making process that yielded this solution.  
    On the surface of it, I wouldn't favor trying to mix
    an end-of-year meeting/team-building session with a
    dinner and dancing party.  I do think that "business"
    and "socializing" can be mixed, but I don't think the
    picture you've presented is the way to do it.
    
    Steve
    

	I don't particularly like to dance. I do not dance with women
	other then my wife. I have no desire to and in fact dancing
	with women from would would make me extreamly unconfortable.

	If the company asks me to go to a business meeting I will go
	but any event with dancing is a social event and I will not attend
	one where my wife is unwelcome. I will go to social events that
	she doesn't want to go to with out her (as would she). Neither
	would go to a dance that the other is not allowed to. That is
	an insult and not to be tolerated.

				Alfred

    You might also want to point out that thi effort to create "team spirit"
    is actually creating resentment and destroying "team spirit."

    If the person in charge continues to feel that SO's should be excluded,
    suggest a more appropriate team building activity.  There's a whole
    bunch of group dynamic and communication exercises that could be done.
    These are more effective than dancing anyway.

    -Jim

    I am surprised at this type of attitude at a DEC function.  I wouldn't
    support a DEC-only-team-building-social-event like this either.
    
    Isn't this against what we have heard ad nauseum this year about
    "Valuing Differences"??
    
    I don't have a problem in dancing with other men when my husband
    & I attend a party together;  I DO when he's not there.  Then it
    seems too much like a "date" and I'm not comfortable with that.
    
    Call me old-fashioned, but at least now I know that I'm not the
    only one!
    
    Jane
    

    re: .11
    
    � Assuming for the moment that there WAS to be such a function ...
    � wouldn't the obvious solution be simply to "just say no" ???
    
    Five'll get you ten that's already her s.o.p.
    
    Steve
    

Re:    < Note 312.12 by HANDY::MALLETT "Split Decision" >


�    Five'll get you ten that's already her s.o.p.

    Please excuse the foreigner I am, I'm afraid I don't understand this.
    
    Re: All the others :
    
    Thanks for the support. What I will do is go to the meeting. I may stay
    for the dinner, but will definitely leave when dancing starts. I will
    see how other people react. As far as I know, only 2 out of 40 so far
    have made the same request as I.
    
    Philippe.
    
    
    

    re: .13
    
    Apologies, Philippe.  "Five will get you ten" is a colloquial
    betting phrase which indicates the bettor is wagering at 2-to-1
    odds (i.e. bet $5, win $10); in other words, good odds.  "s.o.p."
    stands for standard operating procedure.  I was responding to 
    Eagle's "just say 'no'" reply to Jane; my bet is that she already
    does.
    
    Steve
    

    re: .0
    
    I deliberatley skipped over all replies prior to responding to prevent
    my "real" feelings from being clouded by "logical responses". 
    
    My reply:
    
    It seems to me that, here in the US, DEC as a Corporation attempts to
    foster closer contacte between the company, families, and employees by
    providing activities for employees and their families. Many DEC
    employees spend long hours away from their home, and when its time to
    'party'; they generally attempt to include wives, spouses, SO's, and
    close friends (of the SO nature). 
    
    I haven't checked recently, but I believe the Personalle Policies and
    Procedures manual echos this, by making it possible for spouses and
    families to accompany employees (with the employees paying for any
    additionalk costs) to remote business location, parties, etc. 
    
    Personally, company parties tend to "be full of warm and gregarious
    managers" trying to "provide a  good image" that I want to  steer clear
    of them. Its sort of funny to look at people "trying to make it appear"
    they're having a good time. 
    
    It sounds like you've got the right idea. Go for the mandatory part,
    and then leave. If it were my spouse; I would suggest she do the same.
    I've seen some managers wives, and I've seen some of their secretaries;
    and can well understand from the macho view why they might want to
    exclude 'wives'; to build 'better teamwork'; and foster closer
    corporate relationships'. 
    
	Bob E (and I was asked .. this time )

    I just read this and I'm not surprised, its happening all over.
    What happens when one of the managers, male or female, ask one of the
    peons to dance and the peon say's no ? Does the manager remember that 
    come review time? Oh, come on you say, noone thinks like that.
    Well, the fact that they're doing this makes it possible for them
    to think like that. 
    Just remember, the open door policy means, "bad attitude" to a manager.
    Better to call in sick, and enjoy your time with your wife. 
    
    
    Jim 

    Yes, some of the people may be cynical.  But the way I look at it,
    the company has a right to my working hours.  But if they want me
    after hours in the manner that has been described, then they had
    better take my wife or girlfriend also.  
    
    I don't really think anyone's review will be determined by not showing
    up to this event.  But I do think it is unfair for the manager to
    be making this kind of requirement on the staff.
    
    Ed

    Having your spouse present would show that you have another side
    to your life other than working at DEC. It would give managment
    the opportunity to see that you have responsibilities outside that
    managment decisions could effect. Many manager's will make a decision
    about an employee without thinking about how if effect's the
    employee's family. The department I worked for was planning a move,
    years ago. They never looked at where most of their employee's lived
    and that their employee's spouses  also had job's. In fact they
    probably never considered the employee's families at all. Anyway they had
    a location picked out. Then sombody decided to hire a consultant
    to help them with their decision. This consultant didn't bother
    to look at where they wanted to build a plant, she first went and
    did a survey of where the employee's lived and which location, they would
    least be effected by the move. As a result, if the management hadn't
    taken this consultant's advice they would have had to relocate 90%
    of its employee's because of the location they had chossen. It would
    have cost the company $$$$$ in order to relocate those willing to
    relocate.
    If a manager wants to build team spirit, then that manager has to
    show the employee's that they care about their well being,
    and that most often means the well being of the employee's family.
    If management doesn't reconize that the employee has a family, then
    they have already lost any kind of team spirit. The employee's
    family is an indirect part of that team.

    Jim

To me, it is reasonable to have a "coworkers only" party or dinner or 
meeting, but, for some reason, "dancing" crosses a line for me.  
Dancing is more intimate than other social activities.  Sorry, but it
is very clear to me that there are sexual undertones to dancing (some
have written that dancing is a socially acceptable, public alternative
to sex).  I _know_ that I could dance with my mother or sister without
there being anything "sexual" to it, but all I am saying is that it is
not unreasonable to me to bring my sexuality into dancing with some
partners; it happens all the time. 

In something that is intimate and sexual like dancing, I would like to
have more of a choice as to my dance partners.  If I had a lover, I
would want to dance with him (or at least have him at the dance).  

I would also think that the people who try very hard to separate work
and play would be very offended by this type of activity. 

>    Isn't this against what we have heard ad nauseum this year about
>    "Valuing Differences"??

I had typed in a few paragraphs arguing that this event has nothing to 
do with the Valuing Differences philosophy, but I've changed my mind.

The "Understanding the Dynamics of Difference" course teaches about 
assumptions (sometimes based on stereotypes, but not necessarily).  It 
teaches how assumptions that are not checked can get people in a lot 
of trouble.

It seems to me that the planners of this event made a lot of 
assumptions about what "team building" means and assumptions about how 
much the employees are willing to separate work and play.  So, yes, 
the planners did go against the Valuing Differences philosophy by not 
checking in with their coworkers to see if their assumptions were 
valid.

Hope this makes sense.


							--Gerry    

    RE: ALL
              I must say that in my mind dancing IS a social function
    and in so being NO company or organization will dictate my social
    life.  The very idea that a manager feels that he/she can, scares
    me and gives me a feeling of concern about digital.  The dinner 
    however I believe to be a very good idea for just DEC workers.
    It fosters the kind of closeness that your manager might be reaching
    for.  I would certainly draw the line at dancing with co-workers
    under the "managers orders"!

    re: .22
    
    �	How must a manager define such a Team-Building Event ???
    
    I would work with my plant's Personnel group (the HR/Trng. dept.
    thereof) and various course vendors around the company to determine 
    what the optimum exercise for my group would be.  Lateley there
    is quite a bit of educational activity in the areas of team-building 
    and participative management.  As a member of one such group, I'm
    of the opinion that in general, an unstructured mtg-dinner-dance is 
    not the best way to go for a team-building exercise.  However, I'd
    add that, without thoroughly knowing all the details of the particular
    group and the event, I'm loathe to give a specific judgement call.
    
    Steve