Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    HOORAAY for the Marlboro men.... let the non-smokers go outside!!!!
    
    

Let's have a party at Kerrys place !!!!!!!!!
    
    So Kerry.....give us the date and time    ;-)  ;-)
    
    
    
    kath

    RE .1 & .2........maybe a new topic could be started for smokers
    vs non-smokers?????  :-]
    
    
    Kris

    Hey Kerry,
    
    If you have a party, I'll bring the potatoe salad :-)

    
    
    	Have I been elected for something? Was it my hospitality at
   	my last party ("mike, you alright??"  "Uuuuggggghhh")...
    
    	I'll be willing to host something... No swimming till
    	May/June though..
    
    							mike

    I like the idea of  FEB'88, so how 'bout Kerry? Eagle?
    You will allow women to come?  (ok, attack that one...)
    
                                     cj (who loves to party
                                         but with moderation
                                         of course ;-) meaning
                                         I do generally find my
                                         home withing 72 hours)
    

    Eagle you are a doink of the highest caliber.
    You forgot to mention that we will need tons of kische (sp?)
    to show off our sensitivity!!!!!
    sheesh !
    
    Mike's place, may 7 1988, thanks mike your so nice, and almost forgot
    wicked sensitive!
    

    
         Oh m' goodness, I agree with Faulkner!
    
                         Greg
    

	Sorry kiddies.. May 7th is a definate NFW. It's my Mom's
	Birthday and my sister is due the 8th.. Believe me,	
	I'll be WICKED busy!!

	Pick another day,

							mike

    re: last
    NFW= no way with a little extra umph to it.

    no Eagle, not HEFFERN, I'm an imposter.  really DECXPS::CJACQUES.
    
    Why does everyone want to wait till May? I know that came up if
    it was at Mike's, but if you're talking Chopsticks, why not Feb.?
    Wish I could contribute a place, but my place is just not set up
    for party.  Little too cozy :-)
    
                                      cj *->
    

	You mean it doesn't mean "No Fine Way"????

							mike

    re .16
    
    Reminds me of the young lady, in the module test area, that asked
    me what was meant by the tag on the module. I told her that it
    must mean 'Not Functioning Good'. 8-)
    
    Bob Mc

       Let's have a party at my house. I don't have any cats to sneeze
    at and you won't have to worry about anybody snooping in on you
    in the bathroom, unlike some other places.
    
    ps  Radical feminists 
        need not apply                                 Russ

    Russ - if you wish to hold a party to a restricted set of noters,
    please advertise it in the NETPARTY conference, not here.  Any
    "official" MENNOTES party will be open to ALL readers of the
    conference.
    
    				Steve

    re .20   OK Steve I'll do that.  
    
             I must say that since we've ALL become "liberated",
           the "liberators" have made life so pleasant and enlightening
           to us ALL.
    
                                                    no offense,
    
                                                               Russ

    I don't understand Russ, are you being sarcastic and saying that you're
    trying to be "liberated" but us radical feminists are still giving
    you sh*t? Or are you saying that "liberated" people are a minority
    and they are making life unpleasant for the majority? Or are you saying
    something else?
    
    I can't help wondering why you need to dis-invite radical feminists.
    I was looking forward to discussing face to face some of the hard issues
    that have been raised in this file. It's been my experience from going
    to some of these parties that face to face people seem to communicate
    and get along MUCH better than over the network. The network seems
    to encourage flaming and rude behavior that people just don't do in
    person.
    
    Or are you afraid that you couldn't handle a few "radical feminists"
    and want a "safe space" to party in?
    
    	Radical Feminist,
    	-- Charles

    aw lay off will ya?  All he's saying is that he doesn't want people
    that TALK SHIT!!  Is that plain enough???  Geesh, Freedom of speech
    or freedom of choice, which ever one you want.  You People don't
    like his views you do have a choise whether or not you want to read
    it, but dont clutter up this or any other file with worthless crap
    that noone want s to see.  Take it from someone who KNOWS!  You
    wanna blast him?  Take it up in personal_mail not here.  
    
    This statement does not in any way explain the feelings views of
    this station or its affiliates.  This concludes this persons 2c's
    worth.  thank you and have a nice day.  :-)

    So Russ...
    
    Exactly when is this party, and where???
    
    I think its the best the MEN here in this file have, since you were
    the only one who offered their place..
    
    Time and place and what to bring (besides Bob) would be nice to
    know....
    
    
    Lets REALLY get this rolling....
    
    G    
    

    Re: .22
    
    	"The network seems to encourage flaming and rude behavior that
    	people just don't do in person."
    
    Re: .23
    
    	"... don't clutter up this file with worthless crap that noone
    	wants to see."
    
    Q.E.D.
    
    I doubt you would have said that to me in person... you're probably
    a nice guy face to face.
    
    	Hope I can make the party,
    	-- Charles

    
    Yeah, should be a lively party... 

RE: .24

	The only person? I just said we can't have it May 7th or
	8th.. I did say to pick another date.. I DIDN'T close my
	place!!  Pick the date and my place is open for the
	party.. (Of course, my place IS better during the summertime
	but you be the judge...)


	Everyone is welcome. Afterall, I have MUCHO experience in
	running/holding/having NetParties and I know that people
	don't get as "heated" in person as they do in print.

							mike

    re .22   I can handle anyone, but prefer the company of people
            that count. 
    
            "To Radical Feminists sex-class is the basic division in
             the world. All women are our natural allies (whether they
             know it or not), all men are our enemy." -- Radical Feminists,
                                                         1972, London.
                                              from "Thoughts on Feminism"
    
             "It is the aim of radical feminism to organize politically
             to destroy this sex-class system. We are engaged in a
             power struggle with man, and that the agent of our oppression
             is man insofar as he identifies with and carries out the
             supremacy privileges of the male role." -- New York Radical
                                                        Feminists, 1969
    
             "Radical feminists advocate only those systems in which
             everyone has equal rights. Radical feminists advocate
             social, economic, political, and psychological exper-
             imentation."    -- Christine Delphy, Christine Delphy:
                                                  French Feminist, 1984.
    
             "The belief with the radical leftthat capitalism must be
             dismantled (that reform of the system is not enough) and,
             more importantly, the belief with cultural feminism that
             the biopsychological dimension of oppression (sexism and
             patriarchy) and not the economic one (the class society)
             is fundamental."  -- Sally Miller Gearhart. 1983.
                                from 'Learning Our Way', "If the
             Mortarboard Fits... Radical Feminism in Academia."
    
    
               So Charles, where do you fit in with all of this?
    
                                             
                                                 Radical Teacher,
    
                                                            Russ

    Russ, the picture you paint is not pretty.  It seems you picture
    these radical feminists that single-mindedly abhor men and run around
    slavering at the mouth with Inquisitionistic vigor.  
    
    Perhaps if you met some of the people who have been writing here
    that you might feel fit this picture, your views would change a
    bit.

    
    Here's hoping-
    
    -Jody
    

    re .29   Jody, I have met several noters at the first party I 
             attended. They were all very pleasant and the conversations
             interesting. I actually felt shut out of a few conversations
             by some very vocal males - you know, the ones who always
             interrupt.
    
               What I do see in notes and not at parties is noters baring
             their souls, their true(r) thoughts.
    
               I see ideological beliefs in many people that are rooted
             in value systems that are at sharp varience from the value
             systems that most Americans embrace.
    
               Are such variant beliefs necessarily bad?  No, of course
             not. If anything, beliefs away from the mean have a better
             chance of being "true" than that which the culture churns
             out.  They also have a like chance of being seriously "wrong"
             if flaws can be discovered.
    
               So what I sometimes do is test the various structural
             parts of various belief systems -- to see if they stand
             up.  Last I checked, no feminist has taken me to task over
             the things that I find and throw out. So I figure they
             are in agreement with me. Otherwise someone would stand
             up and defend their 'beliefs' right? Right.
               So onward I shall explore.
    
    
                                                      Russ

    in re .30
    Failure to respond to something does not imply agreement.

    re .31   Ability to respond implies Life.
    
             How come Feminist Literature insists upon putting
             Men down?
    
             Every MS issue.
             Every NOW statement. (virtually all)
             Every Feminist Book.
             Every Feminist Speech.
    
             Feminist "virtues" are defined well and praised.
             Masculine "virtues are defined poorly and thus put down.
    
             I have been very gentle considering what I know. 
    
    
                                                      Russ

>Failure to respond can also mean that one sees no point in arguing
>with an idiot.

>Jenna

Therefore I won't argue with you.

I will, however, side with Russ.  If you're not a feminist, then you need not
be offended.  If you *are*, then you have no argument... at least the way he
has stated his views on this abhorrent subject of women putting down men.

Kip

Russ, I consider myself a feminist, but I do not subscribe to the belief
    that all men are evil or the enemy or the antichrist or whatever
    you have been reading labels them as.  I believe women and men have
    a lot of talking to do, and unfortunately what you have been reading
    is only ONE point of view, and that ONE point of view may get in
    the way with your communication with many women because they are
    not THAT sort of feminist.  Your preconceptions judge us harshly,
    and you damn us before you meet us by presuming if we don't strenuously
    object to what you enter, then we must (either openly or secretly) 
    agree.  I assume a lot of people haven't bothered entering their
    opinions to the contrary because sometimes when that has happened
    in the past, you have either backed up your point of view with excerpts
    from what you read, or you perhaps mentally discount them as an
    anomaly and continue believing that what you have read applies to
    the broad spectrum of women.
    
    I believe in greater equality, but the parameters will take lots
    of time and energy for humanity to work out.  I believe changes
    should be made on all sides, and that cooperation is one of the
    largest ingredients (perhaps a close second is interest and
    involvement, as movements without support lead to dead ends).  I
    for one am stating, quite clearly, as I have heard others do many
    times before, I do not hate any one sex, race, creed, religion,
    whatever...I take people as individual cases, and their motivations
    are their own.
    
-Jody
    

       I thought this note was about parties.
       
       Is Pollitz going to have a party, or is his talk cheap? 
       
       --Mr Topaz

re: .38 
>                           -< paranoia strikes deep >-

No.  I'm not paranoid.

Maybe I don't understand the terms "feminist" or "feminism".  To me, they imply
the radical promotion of one sex over the other.  This is what I find
abhorrent, not you.  It seems that feminists, though they may not necessarily
be 'men-haters', tend to demonstrate a distinct dislike for men (or what men
"stand for", or the views that men hold) and appear to be living with two modes
of thinking:

   1) A man says that men and women are different - a feminist would say we are
      equal (the same)

   2) A man says that men and women are equal (the same) - a feminist would say
      we are different

I'm confused.  (Think it's easy?)  A classic example is the entry in MENNOTES
dealing with women using a men's room at a rock concert.  I agree, that if the
tables were turned and men were blatantly invading the privacy of the women it
would have been an entirely different story (maybe not at a rock concert, but
anywhere else).  Now, some of the women who read this conference might consider
themselves "liberated", but only to what extent? ...in most cases, as long as
it suits their immediate conception of where the line should be drawn.

�.... this abhorrent subject of women putting down men.

.38> Which is obviously much more abhorrent than the way you just put me down.

Sorry.  Really.  I didn't mean to put you down, but you essentially called Russ
an idiot.  I don't know him, but I doubt I'd call him or his views idiotic.  It
seems he simply wants to hold a party w/o any radical feminists to argue with.

Kip

ps- when *is* this party I keep hearing about?

Jenna, you certainly have the right to talk about men as a separate species, and
to say that your calling one man an idiot is OK, but for another man to imply
the same about you is not OK, but WOMANNOTES is probably a better place for
such clearly sexist (but PC) remarks.

RE: .37

	Beats the shit outta me.. I offered my place and low and behold,
	no response. Guess they don't like parties and Pollitz' talk
	IS cheap...

	Offer still stands..

							mike

    
    This topic is closed until later this evening at which time I will sort
    out the party related responses from the other garbage.  I'd do it now,
    but the "bus for home" is leaving, and I would rather not be stranded
    here until tomorrow.
    
    - M