Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    wrong on .1 bird dude
    looks r 5% in a relationship
    brains 90%
    rest left over to personality
    

    Physical appearance is often the reason for starting a relationship,
    but I find that much more is necessary for the relationship to last
    long.  Attractiveness is not an absolute quantity in my mind, but
    has a lot to do with how the woman presents herself as well as what
    her physical dimensions are.
    
    Rich

    I believe attractiveness is very important - both in establishing
    a relationship and continuing a healthy one.  Please Note: I said
    attractiveness, not looks.  So, you say, just what is attractiveness?
    I feel that it can be anything/everything from a person's scent to 
    the way they carry/present themselves, interpersonal skills, etc.
    Even their moral values or beliefs could play a part here.  Lots
    of things.  Also, I have to agree with .3; physical dimensions (or
    lack of same) does have something to do with it.
    
    re: .1
    
    looks worth 75 % ?  I am curious what composes the other 25 %
    if the other person has AIDS, what % is that?
    what about a felony record?
    
    re: .0
    
    I thank the good Lord that it hasn't taken me "-/+ 40" to wake
    up and realize that LOOKS, in and of themselves aren't everything.
    
    
    And finally, I DID NOT write "the book" about attraction or
    relationships.  But speaking for myself, when I see a beautiful
    person of the opposite sex, often  I am physically attracted to 
    that person.  But if I later discover that that person is an axe-
    murderer, my brain sends up a red flag and then talks to my body
    about it, and WHAM!, my physical attraction for that person decreases
    considerably.
    
    O.K......now you can tear me apart

    	Saturday from 10:00 to 14:00 on WRKO there is a single's hotline,
    to which I am somewhat addicted. (The only funnier show on radio
    or television, for me, is 'thirtysomething.')  A majority of the
    people (females and males) who call into the show are quite specific
    concerning the physical aspects of prospective dates (amount of
    hair, color of hair, color of eyes, weight, degree of cleanliness
    - one of the funniest aspects of the show for me, etc.).  It is
    intersting how few of the types who call into this show write to
    MENNOTES or WOMANNOTES.  Most who qualify what they find attractive
    in wither of these notes playdown the physical aspects.  I wonder
    if this is because of the lack of anonymity?
    
    Douglas

    You have to define your terms! Physical attraction is a very
    general term and the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'.
    I've always been amused by the guys that termed a woman in the
    plant as a bowwow (didn't look that bad to me), when their wife
    was not pleasant to look at for me. Now some guys are easy to
    figure out, 'yeah, she's cute but she's got small boobs' (IE
    anything smaller than 40DD).
    Obviously, there has to be some sort of physical attraction
    between the two parties, or there wouldn't be a couple. I
    don't think that many folks would date or marry someone that
    was physically UNappealing to them. Just like the nonsmoker-
    smoker thing that was discussed previously.
    
    Bob Mc

	It  always  seems  like  everybody  rags  on  a  guy  for  even
	mentioning something about physical attraction or lack thereof.
	"That's  so sexist!"  they say.  I wish people would admit that
	it's *equally* important with all the other  attributes.   When
	you  settle  down  with someone, it's because of the sum of the
	parts, each of which (hopefully) rates pretty high.  

	It  just  so  happens  that  at  the  beginning  of or before a
	relationship there's usually not much else to be attracted  to,
	in  the  larger  sense, than looks.  And, ok, maybe some men go
	overboard  in  their  expression  of  this,  but   it's   still
	important, and people shouldn't be ashamed to admit it.

	Looks   also  just  happen  to  be  one  of  the  more  dynamic
	attributes, that is some people tend to let theirs go over  the
	years.   If  this  was an important attribute in the beginning,
	why aren't we allowed to want it always?  By  the  same  token,
	one'd be pretty upset if some important, non-physical attribute
	changed and they became a {pick  your  favorite  whatever  they
	weren't before}.

	Looks  is  a  personal  preference,  and there shouldn't be any
	"correct" standards to try to live up to.  On the  other  hand,
	there  is  a  general  relationship between how a persoon looks
	(dresses, takes care of themselves) and  how  they  feel  about
	themselves.  Generally speaking, the whole package will be more
	attractive when the physical package is appealing.

	For  me,  looks are always important, but so are a lot of other
	things.

	/cliff

    It's so hard for a person to say physical beauty isn't important.
    I do feel that if you were scanning a group of people, your eyes
    would probably linger and your mind register a reaction toward 
    the more attractive first, and it's unavoidable.
    
    I know, going to a personel point of view now, it isn't as important
    to me, and I myself don't like to be considered merely because of
    my looks.  I'll get turned right off by a guy when during our initial
    meeting, he says things like "You know, you're the prettiest girl
    here tonight", or, I don't know, things like that.  It sound like
    I can't take a compliment, but I just don't like that feeling that
    my looks are all that's getting me anywhere.
    
    You know what grabs my attention everytime? Tall!  Love em tall!
    But I admit, it's a weakness, and I'm learning to deal with it :-)
    
    I will say something more, and a "fellow noter" will kill me for
    it, but he was pretty reluctant to meet me at first until he had
    a better idea of what I looked like.  Naturally, I withheld info,
    and busted his cookies for it later.  He admitted he felt kind
    of shallow for feeling the way he did, but just couldn't kick
    the need to know first what I looked like.  Wonder if I said I
    was a bowwow but had a great personality (and could stand to
    lose say 25 or 30 pounds) if he would be the friend he is to me
    now?  
    
    Now I think I'll go on an extended vacation, because he will
    probably kill me for this....:-)
    
                                    cj
    

    re .2   My, you DO get better with age! I say personality IS
            Brains, but I see what you mean.
    re .4   Agreed. The way a person presents + carries him/herself
            , interpersonal skills, etc, counts Quite a LOT. Such
            traits identify a person. Realizing the important traits
            (to possess & look for) leads one to the Crown Jewels.
    
            I give the nod to Women into exercise, good nutrition,
            & positive mental attitude. I find that (quite simply)
            Healthy People Look GOOD.  Period.
              Personally, I a so called 'plain faced' Women much more
                       find^
            interesting than any Cosmetically kitched up 'beauty'.
            I look 'deeper' but usually find what was first seen.
            The 'quick check' is the eyes, lips, stride/posture,
            and talk. Also, of course, a rock on the finger.
    
                                                   Russ

    
    "You can't judge a book by it's cover"...where have we heard that?
    
    Unfortunately alot of people tend to think that they know what the
    whole person is about just by looking at the cover. Fortunately
    there are others who read futher to find out what the real story
    is about. As for me, I find the real beauty between the covers.
    Although there has been some times where it was the cover that
    caught my eye. Come to find out it was all cover and nothing to
    read.
                                   "married and still reading" :)

    
    Re: .-1
    
    	Yeh I agree.  The best part of a woman are found under the covers!
    
    
    	Jake
    

    And put a bag over a man's head.....
    
    
    ;-)

    
    
      As a rule of thumb, if you can look at who ever occupies the adjacent
    pillow in the morning, and not scream, everything is okay.

    re .14
    Have you heard the definition of 'coyote ugly'?
    
    Bob Mc

    
    
    re .15
    
      Everyone is beautiful at closing time, even members of Coyote.

    re 16
    
    Even hydrants Sven ???     ;-)

    re .16
    The use of coyote in .15, does not refer to members of the professional
    association of the same name.

    re: .14 (USWAV3::FAGERBERG)
    
    >>	As a rule of thumb, if you can look at who ever occupies the 
    >>	adjacent pillow in the morning, and not scream, everything is okay.
    
    	But I even scream at my *own* image in the morning!!!!!
    	%8*| <-- me anytime before 6:30 a.m.
    
    						Carla
    

    re .14 & .19
    Wonderful. I can relate to both of those.
    
    I've occasionally woken up next to a gargoyle and thought:-
    "I must've drunk a helluvalot last night!"
    
    Then I'd drag my flabby wreck of a body to the bathroom, turn 
    the mirror round to avoid making myself puke and think:-
    "She's probably thinking just the same thing!"
        
    r

    A line from a Dorothy Sayers mystery novel starting Peter Wimsey
    and Harriet Vane...
    
    they have just gotten married and she teases him by speaking to
    him in French when she wakes up (because all his previous lovers
    have been French)...he replies that (paraphrased) he always felt
    it was the responsibility of a gentleman to know who it was he
    was in be with when he woke up in the morning,.
    
    :-)

    
    Now, now , we all must remember that outward appearance beauty
               is only skin deep.
    
    
    
         BUT NOW *****UGLY**** UGLY GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE BONE !!!!!!
            
                                    ;-)
    
         (with apologies to a certain UOB that ain't )

    ...but how deep does it really need to be, anyway?  ;-)

    
    Whats the biggest minus on a mid-30s male:
    
    baldness
    belly
    grey hair
    
    ??

    In my opinion -- belly.

    
    
    ....none of the above.  The least attractive thing in
        ANY man is lack of a sense of humor.
    
    

    of the three if I had to choose it would be being really out
    of shape...both baldness and gray hair I find attractive...
    but I would agree with the previous note that lack of a sense
    of humor in a man makes him much more unattractive than simple
    physical 'defects'. 
    
    Bonnie

    An attitude problem.
    

    Ever heard of an Australian singer named John Williamson?  I recently
    heard him sing a folk song in which he derided a man as being "thin
    as a pole, ugly as a handfull of ass-holes, and the women STILL
    love ya!"
    
    Where are THOSE women?

    
    > ugly as a handfull of ass-holes
    
    Now that *is* ugly...

    
    	No, ugly as a BUCKET full of asshole *is* ugly! |^)
    
    	Todd