Conference quark::mennotes-v1

     re .0:
     
     Are you assuming that managers are men and secretaries are women? 
     
     --Mr Topaz

    
    	I have often found the secretary to be the "virtual manager"
    since the managers I have had were rarely in their office and avaliable
    to converse with.  When I had paperwork to submit for the managers
    approval or signiture, I gave it to the secretary.  When my manager
    had information or paperwork for me, he/she gave it to the secretary
    who gave it to me.  With the exception of the once a year review,
    the secretary was my manager.  She is the one I told when I was
    going somewhere out of the office, the one I asked when I wanted
    to find someone or get a message delivered, the one who knew who
    to contact for something or where to get something, or how to do
    something.  I have often felt that if someone wanted a management
    job, the position to hold first was that of the secretary.  How
    better to be familure with the paperwork involved, the players of
    the management circle, the way things were done.  I have never had
    a male secretary, but I feel this postion is a valuable one, and
    one that men need to hold.  In my opinion, the status of secretary
    should be upgraded immediately, (along with the salary), and that
    many secretaries should be considered for a management postion when
    one opens up.  I haven't quite figured out why this hasn't happened
    already.  After all, "Secretary of State" is not considered a bad
    job.  I hate to see the waste of potential that occurs.  It cost
    the company and all of us money in the long run.
    
    DRC
    

    I'd imagine that anyone who "expects" their secretary to act like
    your notion of a wife would soon find themselves in big trouble
    - most likely by the secretary leaving.
    
    I don't know about your life with your ex-wife, Steven, but certainly
    not all men get "pampered and organized" by their wives.  Even those
    that do should not expect to get the same service from a secretary,
    who certainly has better things to do than to compensate for the
    man's own lack of initiative.
    
    Personally, I've always tried to do as much for myself as I could,
    recognizing that it was more efficient for the group if I did so.
    Such things as creating overheads for presentations, typing memos,
    and ESPECIALLY getting coffee, I can do myself just fine.  Often
    whole weeks go by where I never have to ask our secretary for anything.
    
    Secretaries have specific jobs to do, and most do them better than
    anyone would expect considering the compensation they get.  A
    group secretary is not a "gofer".
    
    					Steve

>    Do men get accustomed to being pampered and organized by
>    their wives at home ... and then expect their secretary
>    to do the same at the office so they can have sufficient
>    "free time" to pursue their _real_work_ without simple
>    interruptions?

    Not THIS man.
        
>    Do muscular managers expect their slender secretary to
>    pack, unpack and "arrange" their offices when they move?
>    Do they expect their "office wife" to remind them of the
>    important social events and plan/arrange the parties?
>    Do they assume she will "skip lunch" to get them ready

    Possibly. In which case she should vote with her feet and walk out.
    I bloody would.
    
    In the U.K. a job exists called "P.A." (Personal Assistant). This
    usually entails being a super secretary plus reminding them of stuff
    like social events etc. They get paid really well. My wife used
    to be a P.A. She got pissed off with it and went into programming
    instead. (And we all know what THAT leads to...:-) )

    Re : .7
    
    "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying"
    
    Fun show.  No male secretaries, tho'.
    

re: .5
Right on, Steve!

    I used to be a secretary here at DEC, and I appreciated hearing
    so many good things about my old profession.  Too bad we aren't
    paid more, I would have stayed with it.  But I never made social
    engagement appointments, (after learning to be assertive!)  
    
    Marilyn