Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    In a biological sense, your first paragraph is perhaps accurate.
    These days, I think that many take exception to the notion that
    siring offsprings is "the ultimate in expression of ... male-ness."
    
    I have no comment for now on your other questions.
    
  --Simon
    

    To open a new can of worms on more or less the same subject, what
    about the father who doesn't want anything to do with the children
    until they're old enough to obey the rules and if they don't obey,
    the father dishes out the discipline but is a little short on the
    love part?
    
    					*** Kristy ***

    re .2
    
    An emotional cripple breeding emotional cripples.
    
    Bob Mc
    

    Becoming a 'father' is easy but but being a 'daddy' takes a LOT
    of work and love and patience.  Most males can become fathers, but
    being a daddy separates the real men from the imposters.

    
    "Anyone can be a father, it takes someone special to be a daddy"
    
    My wife gave this to me when my daugther, now 3, was born.  How
    true.  Yea, I can be the "heavy hand" and the boss of the family
    but is that being a daddy?  That's role-playing into the traditional
    father.  No, being a daddy is sharing the workload of children,
    ( it takes 2 to tangle, right?) playing with the toys, supporting
    the hurts, love.  Fatherhood is the job title, daddy is the job!
    
    As for Andy's question "how do you handle it?"  It tough at times.
    I'm not the most patient (sp) guy in the world.  Screaming, cranky
    kids after a full day is tough.  Not having all the freedom I would
    like is tough.  But, the understanding and the learning process
    is part of being a daddy.
    
    GOG
    

    It's a lot of work and an awesome responsibility. It is also the
    most rewarding thing I have done.
    
    I still remember the huge rush the first time my child was able
    to do something better than I could.
    
    PK

    
    Why have a child? To me it's an extention of sharing. an expression
    of love to be loved!
    
    I love kids..All ages! never thought of "Hey now you're a father"!
    It just was so natural. A piece of clay to mold just the way you
    want. A little person who thinks the world of you and you are thier
    world! You are perfect! no matter what you can do everything.SUPERMAN.
    if you will.
    I took car of my kids right from the first. Loved it! Helped my
    wife as much as possible, hey she had them for the nine plus months
    before, and showed her how to do some things. 
    I came from a big family and had to take care of the younger ones.
    
    I think the saddest part of raising kids is the first time they
    feel pain and their growing older! I love the little ones.
    
    Hope I didn't get too carried away.
    Later,
    Cal.
    

    We have two children, and one last on the way, sort of a "tie-breaker"
    !!.  After a day at DEC, fighting with the world of the users, trying
    to keep things together for another day, giving the warm & fuzzies
    to many a manager and secretary, I can't wait to go home !  Not
    that I enjoy being the "heavy", its just that when I pull into the
    driveway, I have two small loving children who come a-runnin' and
    can't wait to give me a hug !!!!  They accept me, with all of my
    faults, and give me the appreciation that I need at about that time
    of the day.  Sure, later that evening they may not feel the same,
    someone has to discipline them, but they are very forgiving and
    are ready to meet me at the door the next evening, which is an
    excellent lesson to all us when we consider how we treat people.
    
    
    I'm a DADDY, or at least working that way, I don't want to be just
    a father.
    
    Randy

    We're really talking about parenthood, aren't we?
    
  --Simon
    

    RE: 7.9  yes! yes!

    RE: 7.7

>    I took car of my kids right from the first. Loved it! Helped my
>    wife as much as possible, hey she had them for the nine plus months
>    before, and showed her how to do some things. 

    Cal, I'm sure you're a wonderful parent and probably didn't mean to
    imply how I interpreted your message, but I get picky on words sometimes.
    I hope you don't always "help" your wife, and that she "helps" you
    sometimes.

    ...Karen
    (not male, but hope to contribute sometimes)

    re .10
    Reminds me of a Doonesbury strip;
    
    she: changing baby
    he:  Can I help?
    
    she: No, I don't need help!
    he:  (consternation)
    
    he: Can I co-nurture?
    
    she: No, you always make a mess.
    
    Bob 6_month_old_daddy Mc
    

    re 7.10
    Karen
    
    I understand, had to read through it a few times.
    
    As I had said in other notes any relationship is give and take.
    You can't say 50/50 because it never works that way. Some day you
    just don't feel like doing a thing. and it could be 10/90 or 90/10.
    
    I've been lucky in my relationships. Maybe I can thank my mom who
    long ago instilled my values. As I look back now she was really
    far ahead of her time.
    
    Later,
    Cal.
    

    I'd say that the role of "Father" is defined from the adult's point
    of view, while "Daddy" comes from the child.  Single parents who
    say they are "Mother and Father" are really saying they are the
    only parent the child has, and thus try to take on the tasks
    TRADITIONALLY taken on by the parent of the opposite sex.
    
    While this explanation may seem reasonable to many, I wonder why
    a distinction has to be made.  I like to believe that as a "Daddy",
    I fill all of the roles that a "Mommy" would, but don't see this
    as something extra to do - it's just part of being a parent.  Maybe
    if someone studied the interaction between myself and Tommy, and
    then between Tommy and his mother, they'd see some aspects of the
    traditional roles, but I'm not sure, as I no longer see them together.
    All I know is that there isn't anything I won't do because I feel 
    it's a "mother's job".
    
    					Steve

    
    	Creating life and nurturing it is the most challanging
    and satisfying accomplishment of my life.  It has given me the
    opportunity to be intimate friends with four very special people,
    and I have learned a lot from seeing the world through their eyes.
    I have to confess that one of my pet peves is how the dad is sometimes
    viewed as not being as close, loving, and essential as the mom.
    I am already trying to brace myself for my children leaving home,
    but I will confess that I dread that day already, and my oldest
    is only 11.  Some of you who have already gone through this, how
    did you stand it?  How did you cope?  When I left home I was 17,
    and I thought I was so old, and I wanted to get on with exploring
    the world.  I'm only now beginning to understand how hard it was
    for my parents to let go.  I'm hoping I can do so gracefully.
    
    DRC

    re .15
    
    I think the sadness comes from children growing up.  There is a
    lot of joy involved in children leaving home.  In my case we
    established new relationships that were exciting.  Now I see the
    influence I have had on these young people and it is very satisfying.
    We have become good friends and my world has become larger in that
    I am part of another generation.
                                                            
    I accepted the children leaving early on and they felt free to discuss
    it with me and plan.  think that is important.  If the children
    feethat it is going to be painful for their parents they will feel
    guilty and the process will be difficult.
    
    Another thought, if you are enjoying your children you will really
    enjoy your grandchildren!
    
    Memere
    

    re .15
    
    I think the sadness comes from children growing up.  There is a
    lot of joy involved in children leaving home.  In my case we
    established new relationships that were exciting.  Now I see the
    influence I have had on these young people and it is very satisfying.
    We have become good friends and my world has become larger in that
    I am part of another generation.
                                                            
    I accepted the children leaving early on and they felt free to discuss
    it with me and plan.  I think that is important.  If the children
    feel that it is going to be painful for their parents they will feel
    guilty and the process will be difficult.
    
    Another thought, if you are enjoying your children you will really
    enjoy your grandchildren!
    
    Memere
         
    

    
    
    Before I had kids my thoughts were the same a W.C. Fields
    
    	' Kids are like elephants, there nice to look at but you
    	  wound'ent want to own one!'
    
    Now, kids are my life. I cannot even think of how life would be
    without them. I have two boys, one 8 years and one almost 2.
    As said, being a father is easy, being a dad means getting involved
    with your kids, getting on the floor with them and playing.
    
    What I find difficult is that I see my oldest taking after my wife
    and I DON'T WANT THAT. The problem is this, my wife is very sensitive
    to an extream. If I get mad, it's the end of the world! Good greif!
    I try to explain to him that people have different ideas at times,
    people get into different moods, have bad days - but that is life,
    and not to get all upset about it. And then I go on to tell him
    that 'you see, within a very sort time all is over and every one
    is happy again'. 
    
    I feel I'm loosing the battle. Maybe one of the problems is that
    we hardly ever fight. (of course, what I call a fight is not what
    my wife calls a fight, to her, raising ones voice is fighting :-)
    oh well). So when people get mad, he really does not know how to
    deal with it. I feel it's my duty to teach and instil within him
    a sense of confidence and strength. To some degree, maybe I've
    gotten through, but feel he is to emotional. Or maybe it's just
    me. My ideas are wrong. (dam, I can't believe I said that!) :-)
    
    Barry_who_is_always_learning
    

    	-.1'S comments reminds me of my daughter who intercedes every time
    my wife and I try to have a vigorous discussion.  Katy jumps in
    saying "Wait, first you talk and then you talk and then you talk...".
    Gets so we can't even have a good discussion around our house much
    less a good fight. (Kate's only 4 and she gets this behavior from
    Sesame Street (the double-headed monster).)
        
    	Fatherhood... (Daddyhood?)  I don't know if one could ever say
    that a given method or practice would be right for everyone.  I'm
    satisfied if a given parent can be better at it than his/her parent
    was.  I know what the good points were in my father as well as (what
    I perceive) as the shortfalls.  I try to maintain the good points
    and do better in the areas where he fell short.
    
    	What I try to do is give the kids some of my time in thier world
    (watching kids shows, cartoons, etc.) and also include them in some
    of my "adult" activities (firewood stacking, choosing items to buy
    in a store, etc.)  It may be that it's still to early for me to
    completly define my thoughts on the subject as my kids are 1 month,
    2 years and 4 years old.  Maybe I'll make another entry in 10 years
    or so.  Until then this is where I'm at.
                                     
    Rich Z

    RE:  R Brown in 7.9
    
    When I come home, like you, I am Superman to my children.  I know
    that no matter what other people think, like or dislike about me,
    home is where I can go and feel unconditional love coming from my
    children.
    
    I have six children, so multiply the joy by six.
    
    PS.  If this note is MENNOTES, why is this topic not called Fatherhood.
         In this matter I consider myself a father first, and a parent
         secondarily.  No sexist slur intended, only that Father is
         an honored title, whereas parent to me has a hollow and empty
         ring to it.

    I'M A SINGLE PARENT/FATHER WITH CUSTODY OF MY 16 MONTH OLD DAUGHTER.
    I WOULD DO ANYTHING FOR HER AND WOULDN'T GIVE HER UP FOR THE WORLD.
    SHE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND REWARDING THING IN MY LIFE.  TO HER
    I'M DADDY.  I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH DIAPERS,CLEANING AFTER HER,
    BATHS OR ANYTHING ELSE.  SHE IS THE BIGGEST PART OF MY LIFE AND
    THATS HOW IT WILL STAY.  I THINK MORE MEN ARE BECOMING MORE INVOLVED
    IN THE RAISING OF THERE CHILDREN.  NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BUT
    BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.  I'M VERY HAPPY AND PROUD TO BE A DADDY.
    
    THIS IS NOT A REPLY BUT A COMMENT.
    
    TOM