Conference quark::human_relations

    Pete, the way I see things out is that... it takes time to get over a
    heart ache, you should NOT go from one relationship to the next without
    healing FIRST... it must be awfully lonesome to split, but you must
    find yourself first, before finding someone else.  This girl probably
    was in love or she liked you a while back, but things change, you know
    that, and obviously she was looking for someone happier to cheer her up
    and was not prepared to deal with your feelings at the present time,
    (much too heavy for her...) I'm not trying to hurt you, but she seems that
    all she wanted from you was a bit of entertainment while she was here
    on vacation or whatnot. Who knows? she might have a "significant other"
    in Germany for all I know... would she break with you if she REALLY
    loves you? I don't think so. I hope you find a person who really cares for
    you (with problems, without problems, with money and without money) a
    person that really LOVES you for what YOU are, without conditions. This
    type of love is not too easy to get, but we should'nt hurt ourselves
    with wrong liaisons either because we cannot wait, we must heal
    first...  Find peace of mind, then I am sure you'll find a soulmate
    with whom you feel happy and fulfilled.  Lots of luck.  Ana
    

    
    
    ANA.
    
    	I don't think that she has a SO in Germany as I have been over and
    stayed with her a few times and have met all her friends etc...
    
    	I hear what you say about finding myself first - This had made me
    realise that due to the problems in my marraige/relationship over the
    last 3 or so years I have changed so much - Instead of being the happy
    person that was willing to fight for what I believed I turned within
    myself and would do ANYTHING for a quite life. I have been living the
    last few years a s a person that I do not realy know or understand.
    
    	The thing that has shook me the most about all this is that I
    believed (rightly or wrongly) that BOTH our feelings were so strong and
    I cannot understand how that can change so quickly.  Her feelings
    *MUST* have been strong or she would not have called me at 02:00
    Valentines Day (sobber I might add) to propose to me???
    
    	Thanks for the input and I think I will be doing a lot of soul
    searching in the near future to find out where I have hidden the person
    that I used to be and I used to like...
    
    
    	Thanks again
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    My divorce became final May 18th after a year of living apart.  In
    reply 1, noter advises not to jump into a relationship after getting
    outta one, I strongly agree.  Speaking from expeirence, I didn't know
    myself - much less could I know anyone else.  In my case I get the kids
    (two girls ages 5 and 4), and they didn't live with me for about seven
    months.  
    
    I spent that time trying to find me.  That was the hardest thing to do
    because I turned into someone trying to save my relationship.  I'm
    still searching.  My biggest fear is that while I'm searching for me
    and raising my girls, I wont have time to let someone into my life.
    
    But for you I would suggest this (if I can be so bold), take time to
    feel and get over the pain that you're feeling.  Don't hold back.  The
    sonner that you can accept and feel the hurt, the sooner that you can
    get through this.  
    
    Now, why say all of that when it doesn't seem to address you
    relationship issue?  I believe that while you're hurting and feeling
    what you're feeling, you need to talk about it.  Maybe more than some
    people really want to hear.  I think that they get the feeling that
    you're still in love with that "other" person.  I don't believe that
    anyone who hasn't experienced somthing like divorce can really
    understand the need for acceptance / verification and the general need
    to talk it out.
    
    Here's where I also aggree with the other noter - maybe she wanted to
    be entertained and you're just not ready.
    
    Sorry to be so long winded but this reminds me of me in some ways!
    
    Thanks for letting me "vent"
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    Thanks for the input, just a few Q's though.
    
    How did YOU go about finding YOURSELF? I think I am just about starting
    to but I am not realy sure how to progress.
    
    I suppose I need to find a person within me that I can be happy with
    but how do I bring this out? I know that it will probably take longer
    than I would like but HOW?
    
    I know it is probably different for each individual but I would be
    gratefull if you could share your thought/views.
    
    Thanks and regards 
    
    Pete.	

    Pete,
    
    I tried several things for starters but what works for me is to journal
    everything down.  I use a small recorder to capture my thoughts.  I
    haven't gone back and listen to them since I started but it's almost
    theraputic to be able to get my thoughts out into the open.  I have
    learned a lot about myself this way.  
    
    I've learned that I need to trust my self more because I was right
    about lots of things (regarding the realtionship) but I let her steal
    and destroy my self esteem.
    
    Finding myself?  I'm still looking, but I'm much happier today than
    last year.
    
    It does take time...
    
    Trust yourself.  To me that's the very first and hardest start!
    
    If you want more conversation you can mail me at CSOA1::Holland
    
    Dave (I'll be out for a few days returning 5/28)

    
    Dave,
    
    Thanks for your thoughts.  I think I will take a few days out and see
    if I can *START* to find myself and probably drop you a mail for more
    insight later.
    
    Thanks again
    
    Pete.

    
    
    Hi Pete,
    
    
    My advice to you is KEEP yourself busy. If you're busy, you won't
    feel lonely. It's summer, great outside weather! Do the things you
    like to do. If you feel lonely, call some friends.
    
    The network's there, use it. You can make alot of friends over
    the network.
    
    Here's a message for Dave reply 26.3: When you're ready you will
    find the time for a relationship.
    
    Good luck Pete and Dave too!
    
    -Cynthia
  

    
    Hi Cynthia,
    
    I'm trying to keep myself busy but there is only so much you can do
    alone AND when its been RAINING for 2 days - Wheres the summer???
    
    Friends are a little thin on the ground at the moment but I will be
    trying to change that soon.  I seem to have more aquaintances(SP?) than
    friends.
    
    It'll be easier when all the money hastles are over with the divorce.
    Most things these days seem to take money and there is not a lot of
    that spare at the moment.
    
    Thanks for the advice - this not has *REALY* helped me.
    Thanks to all.  Please keep the notes coming...
    
    Pete
    
    Don't worry - Be happy (or at least try).

    Pete,
    
    Are you a third shift person or are you not getting any sleep?  I've
    been noticing the time stamp and I'm just wondering..
    
    Pete - Cynthia is right.  You'll need to get out of the "house" and
    re -establish your connection with life.  Day to day things will even
    make you think.  
    
    Now is the best time.  Speaking only from my point of view, I think
    that now you can open your mind and get back to living.  Your first
    impulse is to question everything (and everyone's intention), 'cuz 
    your mind and heart will try to protect itself.  That's OK as long as 
    you accept what's really going on within yourself.
    
    BTW, as far as friends, you'll have the notes!
    
    To Cynthia,
    
    Thanks a lot!
    
    Later,
    Dave
    

    
    	Yes, your recent experience is going to have direct effects
    on any subsequent relationship. Especially one that's "immediate".
    
    	Her reasons for quitting you offer some insight - from a removed
    vantage point. I'm sorry to hear that you're in it; it must be very
    hard and painful for you. Hurts just imagining it!
    
    >1: All we seemed to talk about were the divorce and Money.
    
    	Those are clearly your current issues - what else would you
    talk about? What else could possibly be on your mind? These are
    two items up at the top of your current priorities to work through.
    I believe that she just didnt want to be a part of that - your working
    through it - despite what she agreed to beforehand. Kinda like she
    got the bill, looked at the terms and conditions of the emotional
    support you need right now, and decided that she didnt have it to
    give and "stopped payment" or whatever. Probably a healthy decision
    on her part, rather than going ahead with it anyway, and having
    a boatload of resentments against you a year or so from now when you've
    worked through most of this stuff.
    
    >2: I was not the person that I USED to be, the one that she knew.
    
    	Well, that's absolutely true! You're much different than you
    once were, having been moulded by the experience of your life over
    the past 4 years. You've changed - and probably whats hitting her
    is that now you have all these issues (corresponding to your experience)
    to go through. You didnt have them way back when - that fact makes
    you "different" now. When you work through them, you'll be different
    still, but it'll be a different kind of difference. I think you'll
    be stronger than you ever were.
    
	>3: I was just content to do what she wanted to do and didn't seem
	>   to want to do anything different to what she wanted.
    
    	Being lethargic is a common attendant response to recent loss, such
    as your recent loss of your wife and marriage. You're talking about
    the divorce so much because you're going through the process of
    *grieving* it, getting it out of you and your psyche. When someone
    is grieving the loss of something as life-significant as a marriage,
    they're going to feel "eh, who cares - whatever you want" for quite
    a while - like a year - before they can again become genuinely
    enthusiastic and interested in much of anything again! This is "just"
    grief, something that heals with time, tears and in a social context.
    
    	That means you need someone to hear, to understand and to be touched
    by you and your feelings - preferably a group of people, but at least 
    one other person, as your feelings around your divorce and financial
    issues come up for you. Clearly, it wasnt going to be your friend
    - she evidently didnt have the capacity for it, as in room-in-her
    -heart for you and your stuff.  I say: too bad for her; doesnt sound
    like she's got room for too much of anything, that's commonly referred
    to as a "hassle" or "pain" in a "this is such a pain" context. She
    might hook up with someone that doesnt happen to have any immediate
    needs like you do, then something will happen along the road of
    life - like his mother will pass on - and he'll need her contact
    and she'll get all uncomfortable and go running away from that one too
    in one way or another.
    
    	You'll be alright. There's plenty of people around who can give
    you what you need to help you get through, what you need to go through,
    at this time in your life.
    
    	Take care,
    
    	Joe

    
    
    Dave, 
    
    	I'm not a third shif person - I think what the porblem is the time
    stamp is in US time and not UK Cuz im hiding over the pond in sunny
    (NOT) England.
    
    	I agree that I need to get out of the house it's just a matter of
    me getting myself off my butt and going OUT to do something that I
    might enjoy.  I need to get myself a new circle of friends in my area
    so that I have a reason to go out as well as somewhere to go.
    
    cheers
    
    Pete.
    

    re .10  -
    
    
    Joe 
    
    
    Thanks for the insight and thoughts.  Your note and all the others are
    realy helping me to understand and deal with not only the breakdown of
    this latest relationship but also what I should be feeling about my
    divorce, well not SHOULD but what OTHERS normally feel.  
    
    	I WILL come out of this a stronger person and hopefully a better
    person too.  Able to understand and help when others are going through
    a bad situation - just like all the noters who have replied here have
    understood and helped me a great deal.  (probably more than they know)
    
    
    Thanks again                                       
    
    Pete
                                                        
    		Don't worry be happy.!!  		0   0
    						      \	  .   /
    						       \=====/
                                                        
    							

    Pete
    
    I went through this a couple of years ago... I learnt a lot during that
    time about making friends etc.
    
    There are a number of organisations which you might have branches of in
    your area where you can go to meet new friends...
    
    I am fairly active in one called IVC, the full title is "Intervarsity
    Club" but don't be put off by the title.  It is basically a social
    group for people in their 20's and 30's... its not a singles club per
    se and is a good way to meet people...  The way ours works in Milton
    Keynes is that once a month we get together and plan events for the
    following months - things like cinema, meals, barbies, parties, pubs,
    sports.... anything really...  This is a UK wide club, you might get
    info about it in the libary or try the local Uni's
    
    Other clubs we have are Rotaract (<30) Rotary (>30) Group 20 etc etc... 
    the libary is a good place to look for info, I can get you info about
    IVC next week if you are interested.
    
    If not, why not start one... advertise in your local paper that you are
    starting a social group... that's how I started the Milton Keynes
    branch of IVC... I persuaded the leisure editor to do a 1/4 page write
    up.
    
    The other thing to consider is taking in a lodger or two... you don't
    get as much time to yourself, but you have the benefit of some company
    and some extra dosh...
    
    Try to save towards a holiday... try something like sailing or skiing
    where it is easy to go on your own and meet people there...
    
    
    Good luck
    
    
    Xtine
       

    Pete,
    
    Regarding .11
    
    Just goes to show you my tunnel vision type thinking.  Thanks for
    clearing that up for me.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Dave
    

    Xtine,
    
    Thanks for the info on meeting new friends etc...  I will look up IVC
    in the local Library but If I can't find anything I'll come back and
    put another reply in here to ask you for any info that you can get ----
    If that's O.K. with you that is????
    
    I'm taking my older sister in as a lodger ( and my nephew) for a few
    months this weekend.  Should be INTERESTING if nothing else.
    She keeps telling me that she will drag me out to meet people when she
    gets up here. Great.
    
    
    Anyway once I get off my BUTT I'll be alright.
    
    Cheers
    
    Pete 
    
    Keep smiling
     

    
    	You're welcome Pete.
    
    	I'd like to clarify that there's nothing "wrong" with you because
    you're experiencing some of the manefestations of going through
    a grieving process. If anything, your responses, such as being
    lethargic, shows that you are and it is *perfectly normal* - it's the 
    way most *anyone* would respond to what you've been through.
    
    	I'd like to caution you however to simply be careful with your
    feelings, in so far as you're cautious with them and respectful
    of them, the way they are at any given point in time. There's utility
    in "getting off your butt" of course, but be sure to keep that in
    balance with _some_ times when "feeling lethargic" has got a hold of
    you - and vice-versa.
    	
    	Should you be feeling lethargic, it's good to let yourself have
    it for a time, good for others to let you feel that way and not
    try to "pull you out of it" immediately. A problem will only follow
    if you stay totally lethargic all the time; conversely you might
    have a problem if you try to live a "jumpin' jack" life, never giving
    in to a less than enthusiastic feeling - or if someone else never
    lets you remain in a less than bright and bushy feeling.
    
    	Like, what I've learned recently and I see happen all the time,
    is that someone will be crying and someone else will rush right
    over and give them a big warm goooey hug - which takes them right
    out of the feeling they're having, because a hug is warm and nice,
    while their tears were hard and painful. Let 'em cry; let 'em get
    that out and get through it some, *then* offer a hug by asking them
    if they'd like one. If you take away someone's chance to discharge,
    the "charge" just stays in them where it can do much more damage
    than what looks like them being hurt of "damaged".
    
    	Balance. So easy to write about, so hard to actually do. Be
    careful going over completely to one side with it!
    
    	Joe

    I've found walks to be very helpful.  1-4 miles, through the woods,
    alone preferably.  During my walks I've worked through many feelings of 
    grief and anger, and cried a lot of those bitter tears, and often
    received a great gift of peace and understanding.  The divorce is not
    yet final, and the financials continue to be challenging, but I'm a happy
    woman.  Fulfilled, busy, all that good stuff!
    
    In fact, I've gotten so busy with friends, and volunteer work,
    and Church, and school (and always work, of course) that I hardly have
    time for my walks.  I'm missing them and the peace and enjoyment they
    provide, so am trying to re-organize the schedule...
    
    One of the p-names I've most admired and frequently quoted is one used
    by Holly Hendricks:  "The only way out is through."
    
    Good wishes as you go through,
    aq
     

    AQ,
    
    i really like that saying "the only way out is through".  I REALLY like
    that. 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dave

    I say that saying to myself ALOT. Especially when you have something
    difficult to get through. 
    

    Thanks to everyone who has replied to this note and helped me through
    this very difficult time.  I am *STARTING* to get through the hurt and
    am coming, finally, to the realization that I need to get my life
    sorted out and become a person that *I* am happy with and able to trust
    before I can expect anyone else to be happy with me and trust me. 
    
    You have all been a real help sharing your thoughts, experiences and
    suggestions and I just hope that maybe I can help some of you in the
    same way in the future.
    
    
    Thanks a MILLION........
    
    
    Pete.
     

    Pete,
    
    Did you manage to get any info about clubs etc?
    
    
    Xtine
    
    ps. I went banger racing on Monday... first time I'd ever been.. I
    talked to a couple of people I'd never met before...didn't start any
    friendships or anything, but it was good to be part of a crowd on a hot
    sunny day... and not sitting veging in front of the TV which is what I
    was going to do before I got dragged out...
    
    MORAL: Just do it, you might like it!

    re .21, what on earth is banger racing? !!!
    
    For that matter, what is a banger?   :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    I'd guess that banger racing is motorcycle racing.
    
    					andrew

    Gee, I thought it might be that cheese wheel rolling contest I
    read about in a mailing from Jon Callas the other day.  It appears
    to be a regular event in England.
    
    					Steve

    Re .21
    
    No Xtine I have not had much chance to do anything these past few days
    because of work etc etc etc..  one of the ETC's being driving to
    Plymouth in a 7.5 ton truck Friday, loading it with ALL and I mean
    *ALL* my sisters gear and then driving back up Sunday.  As soon as I
    get a bit of time - MAYBE this weekend I will look into it and see what
    I can find. But in the mean time I am keeping myself busy...
    
    Re.22-on 
    
    Banger racing is where you get an old beat up car (falling appart
    realy) and get down to a race track, where there are lots more MAD
    people and just basically race the BANGERS as fast as possible without
    it falling appart on you.   Sounds like me trying to get to work
    HAHAHAHA
    
    Smiles 
    
    Pete.

    re.21 (AGAIN) 
    
    Xtine 
    
    Where were you fo it to be sunny on Monday? - I poured down all day up
    here in the NW.
    
    Smiles 
    
    Pete

    Somewhere between Milton Keynes and Northampton....
    
    
    Xtine

    Xtine
    
    
    In other words "in the middle of NOWHERE!!!"
    
    
    HAHAHA
    SOrry northern sense of humor..
    
    Pete.
    
    PS - I meant to say IT was pouring down NOT I was pouring down (I WISH)

And here I thought bangers were sausages!

Sausage race anyone?

joyce

    Yes please....
    
    Only I think sausages may be a bit slow for me.
    
    pete

    I think that if you go to almost any fast food Grease pit, you'll find
    that the burgers go pretty fast!
    
    Is this way off of the subject or what?
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    Not TOO far off - only about 3 MILES:)
    
    Pete

Pete,

>Not TOO far off - only about 3 MILES:)

 Well anyone who takes up sausage racing should have a decent navigator.   
 
Dave, 

 I kid you not, I baby-sat for an 11 year old once, and bought her a burger;
 She proceeded to tell me that her life at the time was pretty much like the 
 meal - full of gristle.  So maybe grease pits and hole-in-the-walls aren't
 so off course after all.  


regards,

joyce

    That's Ok I guess.  I'm thirtysomething and I don't have that good a
    grasp on life but it sounds like she does.  
    
    Does she help people with problems?
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    
    She sure does - she's great....
    
    Pete.

Hi Pete.  What's happened ?  It's been awhile.  The divorce ?  The girlfriend
from Germany ?  I've been following this story, and trying to patiently
wait, but it's getting to be a long time.

Thanks.

/Eric