Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Ummmm actually you have it slightly wrong....
    
    A woman starts to achieve her sexual 'peek' at around 30 or so...
    
    The man starts his sexual decline at between 20 and 26 (these are
    average numbers).  Having reached his 'peek' at between 16 and 18 years
    of age.  (Scarey huh?)
    
    Women do NOT have a lower sex drive... they have a more controlled sex
    drive.  Typically a woman thinks about sex on an average of 17 times
    per day... 
    
    A male on the other hand thinks about sex an average of something like 
    100 time per day (this is a low figure can't recall the actual one but 
    it was AMAZING how much difference there was!)
    
    This is not to say they think about having sex that many times... but 
    rather think in terms of 'sexual overtures' such as 'He has a nice
    build, she has nice legs... etc.'
    
    Now that I've completely confused the questions and answers....
    
    Truthfully, it really IS a matter of  time, energy, and the individual.
    Woman who balance a job or schooling tend to have lower interest in sex 
    because of physical demands in keeping up with their own activitys....
    
    THEN there are the psychological aspects which can further
    increase/decrease the desires of a womans sexuality.
    
    So, what am I saying?  Simple... there are average numbers out there...
    however, the 'average' numbers are, when taken on a individual bases, 
    vastly varied and different from woman to woman.  
    
    However, based on what you've said, I'd say you're doing just fine and 
    have nothing to worry about.  Keep in mind that you ARE attending
    school (at night I assume) and working during the day, plus whatever 
    other interests/necessities (cooking? cleaning? driving?) that fill in 
    the hours between... that makes for a pretty hectic, stressfull
    schedule... in other words assuming you're asking this because your 
    S.O. has complained about it... tell him to consider himself lucky
    you've any interest at all.
    
    Skip

    re > the man starts his sexual decline at between 20 and 26...
    
    That should be 'at between 20 to 26'
    
    Sorry!
    
    Skip

    Actually, my experience has been that disagreements over sex often
    have very little to do with sex.  Especially fights over frequency.
    Sex is a great distraction for avoiding dealing with intimacy issues,
    discomfort with changing roles, and even midlife crises.  If your
    partner doesn't support your commitment to the other activities that
    take up your time, energy, and commitment, fighting about "not getting
    enough" is an easy (cheap shot) way to express that.  After all, if
    you abandoned those other activities, and had enough energy everything
    would be wonderfull?  Maybe not.  Food for thought.

    
    	I like what .3 said, of course!
    
    	Personally, I would not feel deprived with 5-8 times a week.
    That's IMHO; to find what's typical for men, you'd need a survey.
    30 some answers of a number like "2" or "5" could get you a
    statistically significant mean and standard deviation, with which
    you could calculate a range that would include 99% of the men in
    the group that responded to the survey. Probably wouldnt be too
    difficult to do, either.
    
    	My guess would be that you'd come up with a range more close
    to your 2-4, than your partner's 5-8. Realistically, the lower bound
    is "0" (as there are celebate couples) and the upper fringe might
    be...well, who knows?
    
    	I'd consider anger to be an appropriate response to being turned
    down. The healthfulness of this depends on how the anger is expressed;
    saying "I'm feeling angry over getting turned down tonight" is healthy,
    hucking the lamp across the room is not. I think withdrawing
    emotionally is playing games, sort of like "tit-for-tat", but not
    really, because emotional availability and comfort can be given
    in plenty of non-sexual ways. If he's withdrawing from you emotionally
    because you're not having sex with him, I think he's punishing you
    for not behaving in a way that he'd prefer. That's IMHO.
    
    	Joe

 I think that most guys want sex more often than their wives or partners, 
particularly after the relationship has been around for awhile. But there
are certainly exceptions. I've heard a number of women complain about their
husband's/lover's low sex drives in the past few months. Others have complained
that their husbands are perpetually ready, but are poor (read: quick) performers
and their encounters are less than satisfying.

 I'd say that 2-4 times per week is pretty reasonable, and is well within the
realm of "normal, healthy sex drive" for a woman in her thirties. Many men
don't get that, or even once a week.

 I've pretty much come to accept that the frequency of sex in a marriage is
a function of the woman's desire. You can't force your wife to have sex when
she doesn't want to. You can't go outside the marriage for sex or risk a
whole mess of problems relative to morality, health, the relationship itself,
etc. So you learn to live with the fact that you're only going to "get it"
when she wants to. Of course, some men accept this more easily than others.
And many men will take on an extramarital affair to satiate their lust. But
there's no use in forcing yourself to have sex when you don't want to just
because he wants to, at least not routinely.

>		What is typical for men?  Is it normal to feel deprived with
>		a frequency of less than say 5-8 times per week?

 I wouldn't say "deprived," but I'd say that it would take 5-8 times per week
(average) to be fully satisfied.

>		What is typical for women?  We are "supposed" to have the 
>		lower sex drive, but isn't 2-4 fairly typical?

 It sounds pretty typical to me. Maybe even on the high end of typical (4).

>		What sort of response is normal from the partner who was
>		interested but turned down? (anger, affection withdrawl, 
>		understanding, etc...)

 Anger is out of the question. Affection withdrawal is not only not fair,
it tends to be counter productive. Understanding pretty much sums it up for me.
To a large extent, I leave initiating sex up to my wife. That way she doesn't
have to feel bad for "denying" me, there's no rejection, etc. The only
problem with this is she sometimes complains that I don't try to initiate
sex very much anymore, and she seems to think it's related to desire. I'll
tell you it's absolutely not. :-)

 The Doctah

    Re... -1 "It's absolutly not."
    
    Perhaps you should tell her this?
    
    
    (I know... shut up skip)
    
    Skip

I do not think this problem is really about "how much sex is normal".

The problem is more likely about your relationship with your husband.  Perhaps
there are times he wants sex and you don't ?  How do you and he resolve
these issues ?

Going even deeper, perhaps you are growing less comfortable about sex due
to some memories of sexual abuse you suffered in your past ?

I strongly suggest you look beyond just the "how often is normal" question.

/Eric

>    Perhaps you should tell her this?

 What makes you think I haven't?

    Actually, after re-reading your note, not a whole lot, but I also made
    the comment to illustrate the point that.. more often then not, the 
    lack of sex arguement, is REALLY a lack of communication.
    
    Something that's being remarked repeatedly about in here.  
    
    As I'd said in my earlier reply... there are the psychological factors 
    envovled... and communication falls into that realm.
    
    Besides, as I said...
    
    I know... 'Shut Up Skip'
    
    I keep hearing that phrase a lot lately.
    
    ;-)
    Skip

    I would count that as 3, for me, if asked.

    I didn't know you could count that high Mike....
    
    
    
    
    
    Mike, 
    
    I DO apologize for that above statement, but it was just too good to
    pass up.  
    
    ;-)
    Skip

I'd say a large amount of what peoples desire for sexual activity is is down
to what it means to them, if it's the most enjoyable, pleasurable, 
positive feeling way of being close to one another in trust and a desire to
both be happy then it'd probably be reasonably high, though you probably wouldn't 
notice it was unless it dropped or a conversation like this one prompted you to 
think about it. If it's purely something to sate the physical desire I would
imagine it varies greatly (though the average sounds not unreasonable)

Personally I'd say I have a reasonably high sex drive but even I've been 
completely put of sex before now in a way I could do nothing about when I 
started to feel I was seen as nothing more than an 'elaborate masturbation 
machine'  (as a side note I think I was probably massaging the ego more than 
the physical body most of the time.)

All in all desires and frequency vary greatly, I'd be a little wary though 
that anger or withdrawal would be any kind of indicator of a healthy 
relationship.  Sadness maybe, a touch rejected if the lack of interest wasn't 
interpreted in an ok manner, maybe a touch of frustration if it really 
has been a long time, and understanding after any or none of these I'd find
positive....  most of it should be resolvable if you really both want to 
understand each other.

    There's something about the way this question is being asked that
    bothers me.  Since "normal" covers such a wide range, it's probable
    that both of you are normal, but just not an exact match given your
    current schedules, etc.  I'd worry about a dynamic that boils down 
    to "*I'm* normal, *you've* got a problem".
    
    	Sharon
    

    The basenoter's 2-4/week sounds very NON-dysfunctional to me, and I
    agree that there are wide "normal" ranges for each gender.  Couples
    need to figure out how to deal with not being an exact match, so I
    think in many cases it does come down to a communications problem.
    
    I'd say "disappointed but understanding, and planning to drop leaden
    hints with increasing frequency" is an acceptable male response to
    having been turned down.  Anger/withdrawal of emotions are not
    acceptable (*to me*).
    
    I won't say "all", but in my experience VERY MANY men are "perpetually
    ready" except for those minutes/hours post-sex when the physical
    mechanics won't permit.  They seem always to WANT IT, but they vary in
    their methods of asking for it, postponing it or dealing with it alone!
    
    Leslie              

>    I won't say "all", but in my experience VERY MANY men are "perpetually
>    ready"

 ;-)

     Its all in the genes...jeans!??  ;^)

    I agree with the basenoter that 2-4 times a week seems "normal" to me
    within a couple relationship.  In reality, it's been so long since I've
    been in a couple relationship that roughly once a week or once every
    couple of weeks seems normal to *me*!!!  I don't think I would start to
    feel deprived unless 3 or 4 weeks had gone by without sex.  Geez,
    people in couple relationships take a lot for granted that single
    people have to go without!!
    
    To be honest, any more than 4 times a week would begin to seem annoying
    and instrusive to me at this point.  Of course I'm not in love, and if
    I were, I might feel differently.
    
    Lorna
    

    Then I guess 4 times in one night would pretty much cover you for the
    week.
    
    -- Mike

    Yeah, probably!
    
    Lorna