Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    If there was no further elaboration, I'd probably assume the speaker
    meant "A."  "Has she gotten over her mother's death yet?" (just reading
    it, of course, does not add the inflection of the speaker so the way
    the words were stated may belie the way they were intended to be taken)
    comes across as "Is she ready to move on with her life and put all this
    behind her yet?"
    
    So what was the intended meaning?
    
    Barb

        1. Which interpretation (or another one?) did you have when you
    	   read it?
    
        	Has she COMPLETELY gotten over her mother's death?
    
    	2. Is this question tacky, insensitive, or just plain dumb?
    
        	All of the above.
    
    To imagine one would have "gotten over the initial shock and depression
    of her mother's death" (to quote you) in a month is asking a lot --
    most people haven't even begun to assimilate the fact of death at that
    point.  To imagine anything else is absurd.  So:  even if my
    interpretation were the "milder" of the two, the question is *still*
    tacky, insensitive, and dumb.  
    
    Grieving can take years.  Allow those who must grieve the time and
    freedom to fell what they must feel.
    
    
    

    Ooops!  I forgot to answer question #2!  The question is none of these
    things if the person asking clarifies in what way it is meant to the
    person s(he) is asking.  Although unasked, it is definitely *NOT* worth
    fighting over.
    
    Barb

    I would give the benefit of the doubt even though the question could
    have been worded more clearly.  Therefore I would say B - as no one
    ever COMPLETELY gets over a death of a loved one (that's a given).
    
    
    As stated in .1, though, it does depend upon voice inflection -
    sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it.
    
    The question would be insensitive/tacky if asked directly to the
    friend, but I feel not to the spouse.  I would see it as concern for
    
    Helaine

    .4 last paragraph should read:
    
    I would see it as concern as to how the friend was coping.
    
    Helaine

To the first question - B. I would think it would take alot longer than a month
to get over the death of your mother completely....so I would assume the 
question was referring to the inital shock.

If my spouse asked me that question in private I would think nothing of it. If 
the grieving friend was asked directly, it would be boorish and insensitive.

John G.

    B, dumb.
    
    ed

BBBBBBBBBBBBB

    I think the question was dumb AND insensitive. I think there must
    be a better way to ask about the friends welfare such as "well,
    how is she doing?"  You don't "get over" someone's death.
    
    kristin

    Brief clarification:
    
    In question 2, I state:
    
    2. Is this question tacky, insensitive, or just plain dumb?
    
    It wasn't intended that you must pick one of them.  The intent
    was to say "was this tacky/insensitive/dumb, or was it a fairly
    reasonable or innocent question".
    
    thanks for your answers.
    

      I would only think the question tacky if asked directly of
    the individual who lost their mother.  Asking about a mutual
    friend is okay.
    
      I would tend to think "A".  That the person wanted to know
    if they're over it completely.
      I also don't think that asking this after 1 month is too soon.
    It depends on you mean by over it.  
      My mother died recently.  I was "over" the death in about a week.
    I was able to go to work, talk about her w/o falling apart and
    other normal things.  I still miss her, but I'm over her death.
    
                                     L.J.
      

B, and it was a reasonable and innocent question (and way to ask) to your
spouse.

BTW, I _HOPE_ the basenoter will let us know how this turns out. :^)

-Jack

    b and innocent

    B, Innocent.
    
    -jerry
    

My take. It was kind of the spouse to ask, but the asking was very
poorly worded.

The problem may be the connotation of "get over it." In my mind's
ear, I hear the phrase "you'll get over it" applied to disappointments
that aren't heart breaking. Parents say it to 13 year olds about
puppy love. People say it about losing a job or comitting a gross
faux pas in front of the world. For sure, one would never say it 
to a person who had suffered a devastating loss. 

I've fired some blunderbusses too, so the speaker has my
sympathy. 

B, probably innocent, but badly put... as said before in most peoples mind 
there would be the assumption that after only a month NOBODY would be COMPLETELY
over it...  I would have taken the question to mean "How're they doing?" and
answered that...


I am dying to know how it led to a row though....


Curious of London...

    
>    	1. Which interpretation (or another one?) did you have when you
>    	   read it?


    	I think I would have taken it as an inquiry of concern and answered
    according to how my friend was doing.  I don't know if I would have
    analyzed it so fully before answering; I can see myself saying, "Well,
    she's certainly doing better than she was a month ago but of course
    it's still affecting her."  (Depending on the reality of the
    situation!)

    
>    	2. Is this question tacky, insensitive, or just plain dumb?
    

    	Depending on the delivery and so forth, on the surface it may have
    been a bit tacky.  But we can't *always* come up with the perfect way
    to say something!  Let's have a little understanding and flexibility,
    shall we?  The important thing was the intent, and to me the intent was
    to show concern and compassion.


    	If you're in a situation where you constantly need to think about
    what you say before you say it, it seems to me that good communication
    would surely suffer.  Tip-toeing on eggshells doesn't seem overly
    productive.


    Brian
    

    When people asked me if I had "gotten over" my daughters death I wanted
    to slap them and ask "how can anyone be so ignorant?".  I think it
    would have been in very poor taste to ask the person who lost her
    mother but to the spouse it was harmless.  How do you know NOT what to
    say if no one tells you? 
    

    I don't think it was insensitive at all!  And no matter how I try and 
    read the question... unless it was spoken with an undue amount of 
    sarcasim (sp?) I see no way that it could be taken in any way but
    concern for someone's feelings and mental health/state after the lose 
    of someone close to them.  Tacky?  Only if the person asking the
    question walked up to the person suffering the lose and bluntly
    asked...
    "So, are you over your mother's death yet?"
    
    That's tacky. But to inquire of someone else how they saw the
    person....
    
    No that isn't tacky nor insenstive at all.
    
    IMHO of course.
    
    Skip

    Based on the responses thus far, it's obvious that what was said, what
    was meant, and what was heard could very well be three different
    things. 	
    
    					andrew

    B - and asked innocently, out of concern. 
    
    

I'd like to thank everybody for their responses to my posting.
I know that as H_R issues go, this wasn't a biggie.  But,
it was an important one to me for a day or so, and it was
really helpful to see what the responses were.

As you might have guessed, I made the statement, and my wife
went ballastic.  She said it was insensitive, tacky, etc, etc.
She screamed and yelled and stormed out.  My wife (as you can
probably guess) has a strong temper, which she will be happy
to display at the drop of a hat.  Being a relatively calm (she
would say "unexpressive") person, I can't relate at all to
her temper tantrums.  But, I've somewhat grown used to them
over the years.

I read through the responses with my wife beside me.  When I
tallied up the responses, it turned out that more than twice
as many people interpreted the statement as I did.  My wife
said "that's because you biased the survey by giving them the
possible interpretations.  You should have just give the statement,
and then asked how they would react to that statement."

My personal opinion is that if given only the offending statement,
most people would say "yeah...so what's the big deal?"  I gave
the two possible interpretations so that people could actual
vote for a specific interpretation.

In any event, thanks again for responding.  My wife still thinks
she's right, but that's nothing new....:-(

    I don't feel your question was biased at all... you did not say who 
    said what to whom nor did you say how the question was interpeted...
    you gave the two possible interpitations and asked how we saw it.
    
    Heck, you didn't even ask if one was correct or not.
    
    
    
    

	basenote:

	I agree with Skip.  It was no biggy....but

	I don't think this is 'just a little' matter either.  It is these 
kinds of little things that mushroom into big, big problems.  I think you 
are very wise to recognize it and maybe there is something hidden deeper 
here. Like is your wife emotional because you aren't???    Is she attempting 
to bring some of that emotion out of you???..Just some thoughts ...

	I wish you the very best.

	Mikki
    
    
    

    
    
    
    

    re .0,
    
    I probably can give you my perception of the situation, but it is too
    late and it really is beside the point.  My point is what you actually
    said or didn't say had little to do with the reason behind the argument
    between you and your wife.  I won't say more than asking you the question:
    
    Do you really expect your wife to budge even if every vote here went to 
    you?   
                                                            
    Eugene

    There could be more to the situation that meets the eye.  There is a
    possibility that the writer of the note dislikes the woman who lost her
    mother and the comment was said in a manner that conveyed that feeling.
    
    I agree with Eugene the wife might not budge given the responses and
    vote because there might be other circumstances that she considers
    relevant. 
    
    I find notes a very one sided approach to problems.  In general the
    author of a note that discusses a problem in a relationship tends to
    get sympathy from other noters.  We never know the other side of the
    story...or as Paul Harvey says 'the rest of the story'.
    
    

re: 1141.0             It's time to play "Family Feud"!              24 replies
>Now, there are two possible interpretations of that question:

It only seems like two possible interpretations. Actually, in my experiences,
there is "All interpretations I can imagine + 1". There is most always
one more possibility than any of us can imagine.
    
>1. Which interpretation (or  another  one?)  did you have when you read it?

My own interpretation, initially, is the  "shock" of it.
And it DOES matter whose friend it  is.

>2. Is this question tacky, insensitive, or just plain dumb?

This requires an interpretation. To me, it seems like an innocent enough
question, but obviously, if it were seen as such a trivial question, you
wouldn't be asking it.

I could say, if it were a "particular" person I was close to, it would seem
a callous and tacky question "by them". If it were muy current spouse, it
would be viewed as question of caring and concern, since she loves me more
than the desire to be "righter than me".

I will bet one step further, that if the answers you get tend to show you
to be correct, the "other" person will say they are invalid and you're being
tacky and sneaky, and  these replies prove nothing.

Either way, you lose ... 

Good Luck .. Right? .. you lose, wrong ?, you lose anyway ..

-BobE

    
    Re: .26
    
    I disagree when you say that people who post their problems here get 
    sympathy from other noters.  This implies that all the reply noters are
    afraid of expressing their own opinions and just agree with the
    basenoter to make him feel better!  I've seen notes where a person with
    a supposed problem has been told to "wake up" and see how selfish and
    insensitive they really are being!
    
    As for the basenote, my initial reaction would tend to be "B" and
    "innocent".  As said before, if directed at the bereaved person it
    would be tacky, but if my husband said that to me I would think he was
    just concerned.  Everyone says things that could have been worded
    better ...
    
    Sam