Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    That is the result of a total lack of morality.  You knew her past, yet
    you were ready to trust a person devoid of morals... why?
    I am very sorry for you because what she did is a "blow below the belt"
    and you don't deserve that.  Put HER out of your mind and please,
    follow your instints and... be selective, there are lots of people like
    her around, but there are many, many decent folks around...don't loose
    faith in humankind, only on those who are not up to your own
    standards... follow your integrity and go on with your life... wish you
    the best.
    

    
    Boy, does this sound familiar... Your freind is in serious need of
    counseling, and from my experience with a very similar situation, 
    she won't get help until SHE decides to. No amount of suggestion, 
    coaxing, begging, etc. will help. 
    
    This is a lot more common than you may think. Unfortunately, when
    very nice, overly trusting people get involved with this type of person
    the result is a great deal of torment for people like you. And, I 
    would predict that when Pattie finds herself depressed and in trouble
    again, you'll be the first person she'll call. 
    
    Do something you enjoy to take your mind off of this! And take care,
    as I said, others have been through the same exact situation.
    
    /Lou
    

    She'll get what she deserves - a fourth divorce. Write her off
    and do it quickly. 
    
    been there

    I didn't read every reply, and I am not taking sides.  I don't judge
    other people.  However, I was an abused wife and I went back about
    20 times in 5 years.  Many ask why?  I guess it really doesn't matter
    why accept at the time I was very insecure and kept trying to "fix"
    the marriage.  I am sure that she is a very insecure person, and may
    not be stable.  However I agree with the first reply that you don't 
    need to be hurt (no one does).  I try to look at it as an experience
    which is more easily said then done, and we all know that sick feeling
    of emptiness.  Take care and Sincere Regards,

    In spite of the pain, lucky you!  You avoided (thanks to Patti)
    what may well have been an overwhelming co-dependent relationship.
    As painful and humiliating as it is right now, you will survive
    and be far better off without her.  Yes, I know that sounds cruel
    and that the emotions are still strong, but accept the grief and
    get through it.  A brief period of counseling might be very beneficial
    for you to get those feelings out and perhaps to discover why the
    two of you were attracted in the first place.
    
    Look back on the realtionship.  If these were the mind games she
    played with you now, what kind of mind games would she have played
    with you AFTER you were married?  Is this *really* the kind of
    relationship you would want to return to?  How long could the illusion
    of happiness remain under such circumstances?  These questions will,
    no doubt, collide with your emotions, but they deserve to asked
    and answered by your inner self.  One of the problems with
    co-dependency is that unless the person with the problem WANTS to
    change, nothing anyone can do or say will make a difference for
    long.  Patti's choices must come from within herself.  You cannot, no
    matter how much you want to "fix it" for her, do so.  She must be
    the person to say "enough!" and get the counseling she needs to
    overcome this need to be a victim.  Speaking as a former battered
    and abused woman, I *know* what it takes to effect such changes.
     It takes hard work, constant vigilance to catch yourself falling
    into old patterns, and some heavy duty counseling to discover the
    why you feel you need so much pain in your life and why you don't
    deserve happiness.  Unless Patti is ready to make such a committment,
    you are far better off avoiding her altogether.  Yes, it hurts!
    Just keep looking for the lessons you've learned out of this
    experience.  It will help you to at least find some value to the
    time you spent.  Perhaps you discovered a closeness you didn't know
    you had the ability to feel.  Perhaps you have learned that just
    because someone "clicks" in the beginning, it's far more prudent
    to really get to know the person you are in love with.  It may be
    that the long courtships of past days actually had more value than
    we give them credit for.  What have you discovered about yourself
    that you may not have been aware of before this time?  If you can
    find just one thing of value, your relationship was not a total
    waste.
    
    I hope you heal soon, friend.  You have my empathy and support at
    this painful time in your life.  If you need to talk, please write
    me.
    
    I care,
    
    Barb

    inre .0
    
    I had a different thought, what if she paniced because she'd gotten
    too close to you and she couldn't handle it...
    
    so in running back to the old familiar situation she delt with
    her fear of something new.
    
    Bonnie

    Stranger than fiction! I knew a woman who went back to a married man,
    she broke off her engagement with me. Boogied back to his hot loynes
    and I said enough of this crap. Yes, she needs serious help, just as my
    future Ex does. But that life, can't help them who don't wanna be
    helped. Remember if she calls you and she has been bounced around the
    house, agian, she doesn't want help from athorities, you don't want 
    involvement. Besides who wants someone with sexual hangups like that
    she was displaying to you. Some folks are born with sharp heals to walk
    over you with. Stay out of harms way.  

    re .6
    
    I agree. To some (me included at times) it's better to have something
    you are familiar with than something unknown, even if it seems like it
    should definitely be better.
    
    I have a feeling that's why quite a few people return to abusive
    situations.
    
    ....Bob

    
    	Well, you could go to a "CODA" meeting and tell this story there.
    You'll find many people there who'll identify with and (therefore)
    validate all the feelings you have, from the embarrassment of letting
    people know to the anger you feel at yourself for allowing this
    to happen. Empty the jukebox by talking about it.
    
    	You'll be able to draw from the collective experience there
    and learn what has helped others when they were in a like situation
    and learn what is helping them now. You may even learn what it is 
    about you - this part you're currently angry with - that, as you said, 
    "allowed this to happen".
    
    	Hope you're feeling better soon.
    	
    	Joe

    
>So after all this, I`m feeling some pertty heavy emotions...... I am 
>    very angry at myself for allowing it to happen. I`m embarrased to let 
>    people know that I was so taken in.
    
Hey fella - go easy on yourself....
    You've had enough pain thrown at you from the outside without beating
    yourself up too :-}
    
    You did OK - as OK as any loving person can confronted with someone who
    is that unstable (IMO). Don't keep kicking yourself - you weren't to
    know. As for feeling embarassed - well, if anyone trys to make you feel
    a fool for honestly loving someone else then I reckon they have a sad
    attitude and are probably missing out on some of life's good stuff
    themselves. I don't think you were foolish.
    
    I'm sure your situation must hurt like hell right now, but when you've
    healed (and you *will* - you know it) don't let this experience stop
    you from loving again....
    
    'gail
    
    
    

    I can sympathize with you 100%.  I ended a 4 year realtionship, and
    then went through 3 subsequent ones that I thought "could be the one,"
    each time getting dumped.  I felt humiliated and worthless, wondering
    each day what *I* did wrong.  My self-esteem went right down the
    toilet, along with my trust for people of the opposite sex.  I still
    cared for these people long after they let me know they weren't
    interested anymore.  The only way I got over it was to talk to very
    close friends about the each experience, someone who would listen,
    offer some insight, but not tell me "you asked for it."
    
    I started a journal to record all my feelings and emotions.  That
    helped A LOT, after a month or two I no longer needed to jot down my
    every emotion.  I also sent each person a letter, explaining how I felt
    and getting it out in the open.  This also helped.  
    
    This is a form of therapy that has worked for me, perhaps you can try
    it.  What probably hurts the most is that you trusted this person with
    all your inner thoughts and emotions and then they turned around and
    betrayed you.  Try not to build a wall around yourself (although I know
    it will be hard), and learn from this experience so it doesn't happen
    again. 
    
    Take care.

	I would like to thank those who have responded to the base note. My 
overall feeling from what has been written is that you care and I appreciate
the support that has been offered. I would like to give some feedback about 
what some of you wrote.

.1

I`m not sure I agree that Pattie is a person devoid of morals. I would need 
more info from you to understand the reasoning. Why, did I trust her? 
Some of that, I am in the process of learning at the present time. I ignored
her track record and her actions and believed her words. That was a mistake.
I`m sure there are a lot of decent women around. I just seem to be drawn in 
to those who have problems. That has been my pattern. I tend to be a caretaker  
and for some reason feel that I can fix things that are wrong with others. Some 
of the whys of all this are locked inside me and I am working to release the 
experiences that have created the patterns.

.2,.3,.4

I agree, Pattie is in serious need of counseling and she is less than stable.
I`m not sure about her getting what she deserves. I do feel that she will have 
to hit rock bottom before she goes for help. From being with this woman and 
based on what has happened, I firmly believe that she is a victim of childhood
sexual abuise. She is not aware of it and has no memory of it. My mother was 
sexually abusied and as a result I have a pattern of getting involved with 
sexually abusied women. There are also some other things in her past that she 
will not face. Pattie is very much out of touch with who she is. So what is it
that she deserves? I don`t like how she treated me anymore now than when it 
happened. Because she was a victim, she deserves to be victimized? I believe 
the day will come for Pattie, when she will realize how much pain she is in and
will begin to do something about it on her own. Life has a way of teaching us 
the lessons that we need. 

.5 

	I do know intellectually about all the things you mentioned. I`m sure
it would have been a total disaster if we would have gotten married, just like
it has been in all her relationships so far. I really do know what I want in a 
relationship. What I want to learn is why am I continually getting into 
relationships that I don`t want. This woman came into my life for the purpose 
of teaching me that lesson.
	For some reason, I become totally enmeshed with the women I love. Or 
maybe it isn`t love but there are certain types of women, usually the ones 
who have been sexually abuised, that I fall in love with. I am unable to see 
things from a proper perspective and even when I do see things properly, I am 
unable to speak up. It is difficult for me to function when I become so 
enmeshed in these relationships.
	I have been told in my last therapy session that somewhere very early 
in my life or even possibly in the womb, I lost my voice. Somewhere along the 
way, I made a decision that it was better not to speak or make any noise. I was 
able to get more of my needs met by remaining silent, and it was also less 
painful. I feel that this area is worth exploring. Since a lot of my life was 
spent in silence, for fear of upsetting those who were my caretakers.

.6

I agree that the closeness she was beginning to feel was too much for her to
handle. She once told me that after knowing her for three weeks, I knew more 
about her than her X knew, in the two or three years that they had been 
together. Isn`t it ironic that something that is most treasured by some, is 
most feared by others.
 
.11

I think what bothers me the most is how much I accepted this woman and put my
trust in her. I loved her in the only way I know how. By unconditionally 
accepting her and believing that she was loving and capable of rising above 
anything that may have been in her past. I thought she was truthful with me 
only to find that she wasn`t. And so out of touch with herself that she can`t
even recognize her own truth. It just seems like such a waste of human 
potential 

.12

Journal`s have always helped. And writing a letter to the person has also 
helped. Even though some of the letters have never been mailed. I also started 
a dialouge with my inner child. It seems like, if I would have been more 
connected with my inner child much of the pain that I put the child thru could 
have been avoided. Anyway that is what I am trying to do. Connect deeply with 
the child so that I can be more sensitive with what I`m feeling. 

Again thanks for the support. I needed it at this time in my life even though
I was fearful that some responses might be judgemental. A couple hinted at 
judgement but overall the feedback was supportive. I appreciate the time you 
spent to reply.