Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    
    Well...here's what I did.  I stopped thinking about the 'other
    person' and wondering why that person did this or that or the
    other thing.  I stopped trying to figure out the motives behind
    that person's actions.  I gave up trying to understand how some-0
    one could act in such an illogical and probably not very intelli-
    gent manner.
    
    Then I started concentrating on ME.  On how I was feeling, why I
    was feeling that way, and how my actions were a reflection of my
    feelings.  I started rebuilding myself.  I decided that each person
    does what they do for a reason, and it was their road to walk, but
    not mine.  The road I chose was to become the best person possible.
    For myself. 
    
    This was not an easy process, and not a simple decision at which
    to arrive.  It took time, and will power, and lots of energy.  And
    it's an on-going process.  I'm still not the best, but I'm a heck
    of a lot better than I was when I was channelling my time and energy
    into thoughts of 'the other person'.
    
    I wish you the very best-I've been there, and it hurts like hell.
    
    Deborah
    
    

Person #2 is making a big mistake...

I've been in person #2's shoes, and have waffled around to a certain extent.
I agree with the sentiment about not running out on a relationship, but it
seems to me, that in returning to #3, they are running out on you more then
returning to the other person.  Possibly they have a hard time dealing with
the way you treat them, never having had that before.

Are you too naive?  I don't think so...  you took a chance (I assume you know it
wasn't a sure thing), and it didn't pay off.  Is the other person out of
control?  Yes.  How do you let go?  You must let other people live their own
lives, no matter how you want them to do or be certain things.  If you can still
include the other person in your life to an agreeable extent, good, if not, that
is the way it is going to be... 

Jim.

    Re: .0
    
    I *hate* situations like this, where things fall apart and you can't
    really explain why.  I brood over them, trying to figure out *why*
    it happened, and I can't really let go of them until I have an answer.
    A lot of times, it requires some kind of distance in order to allow
    for perspective.
    
    Usually, though, it doesn't come down to it being any one person's
    fault.  Most things are more complex than that, a chain of actions
    and reactions rather than a single breaking point.  Mistakes have
    been made, but they're usually pretty understandable.
    
    Yours is a particularly tricky situation.  It's hard to say it's
    over because maybe it isn't.  Past experience indicates that the
    renewed relationship will fail again and leave another opening for
    you.  The voice of caution says you can't count on it, but it's
    awfully easy to believe that the "maybe" will become true.
    
    At this point, you might be better off just not making a decision.
    One of the implications of "letting go" is "now I'm free to find
    someone else."  But if you find someone else and then this person
    becomes available again, you could find yourself feeling guilty
    and torn.  So don't worry about finding someone else.  Concentrate
    on your friends.  My social activities involve a group of people
    rather than a collection of couples; I suspect you'd be much more
    comfortable in an environment that doesn't bother with pairing people
    off.  It's not such a bad idea to wait for a while and see what
    happens as long as you don't sit around doing only that.  Put more
    time and energy into the other aspects of your life.  Wait-and-see
    doesn't have to mean putting your whole life on hold.

    	I sympathize with you for the great pain in your heart, and
    while I can't make it go away, I would like to offer some
    encouragement.
    	This type of thing has happened so many times before, and no
    matter how it ends up - someone gets hurt.
    
    	Right now, you must focus on healing your own pain, don't fret
    over the why, it doesn't matter why.
    
    	You have a support network here, in the conference, an dyou
    are not alone - let the comfort and support from your friends here
    ease your pain.
    
    	I don't know where you stand spiritually , but if you beleive
    in a Higher Power - this may be His way of getting your attention
    and
    	you may turn your thoughts in that direction.
    
    	Sincerest sympathies & fondest HUGS
    
    	GUY B.
    
    

    If this person is in an abusive relationship, there is a certain
    bond that develops between the tormentor and the tormented that
    is known as a "sick dependency."  It has nothing whatsoever to do
    with you, your love, the quality of life you wanted to build with
    this person, or anything else.  It simply is the old "better that
    which you know than that which you don't know," idea.  This person
    has the problem within themself. It has nothing to do with you,
    and until (s)he makes a conscious decision to seek professional
    help (i.e. counseling) there will never be much of anything anyone
    can do.  I know.  I've been in the same place.
    
    Please write me at SLOVAX::HASLAM and we can discuss this further.
    
    Here for you with support,
    
    Barb

    .1  Excellent advice from my point of view!  
    
    There is a wealth of practicality and sensible reasoning in that
    reaction/behavior.  To try and figure out the whys and wherefores
    of another's behavior is like trying to pick up feathers in a fast
    wind.  Forget it; whatever makes one do what is apparently
    self-destructive and growth-stunting [as this behavior 
    appears to be--who in their right mind would return to an abusive
    relationship?] it is their problem and they alone can solve it.
    
    That does not mean I believe it at all easy to watch it happen.
     It does mean that you have a life to live, too, and if you spend
    all your effort and time thinking about what makes that person tick,
    your life is virtually on hold, isn't it?
    
    I do wish you luck.
    
    M

    I've been in all three roles of this, and can tell you that none
    of them are any fun.
    
    When I was #1 (you).  I was very insecure.  I didn't know what was
    going to happen next, I didn't know what was the right thing to
    do really, and I knew I didn't want to hurt anyone.  At this time
    (when person #2 made up his mind), a person #4 came along and swept
    me off my feet - into what turned out to be the worst relationship
    of my life.  Be careful, and don't take something that looks like
    an easy out without really thinking about it.  In retrospect, I
    now have a very good relationship with person #2, although we never
    really got to be SOs.
    
    When I was #3:  I keep hearing back through my circle of friends
    about how aweful person #2 is making me out to be to person #1,
    and that he's giving person #1 the same song and dance he gave me
    in the beginning.  Person #1 is setting herself up for a big fall,
    but believes person #2, and knows that I'm crazy, cold-as-a-fish,
    only out for myself, etc., so doesn't believe a word I say.  Oh
    well, her loss, she'll have to learn the hard way.
    
    As person #2:  It's very difficult to decide between a commitment
    that you've made to someone, and to go after what you think is right
    for you.  Some tristating is quite understandable at a time like
    this.  In my case, and in most cases I've seen, the person making
    the least demands is who person #2 will ultimately turn to, especially
    if #3 hasn't changed.

	To the Base Noter:

	What I feel from your original message is pain...  I hear you
	and empathize with that feeling. 

	I won't try to give any advice.  I just want you to know that
	your feelings are valid and that YOU are an important person.
	We're here to listen.

	What I really want to do (which is impossible in this electronic 
	medium) is to put my hands on your shoulders look you in the eyes,
	tell you that there are lots of people who care, and then hug you
	for as long as you want.

	Consider yourself hugged...


	Send me personal mail if you want to talk.

Ouch!

I was in this exact situation one time.

It really hurts.  I stayed in touch and hung in there and supported
the person as much as possible.  She decided later she had made a big
mistake and we got back together.  It was great at first but I found
out the hard way that I couldn't just forget all the hurt and we never
found a way to work it out.  [I'm not saying this has to happen but
that's what happened to me.  Perhaps next time I could deal with it
better.]  The initial threeway situation added alot of heavy hurt and
anger all around that took a long time to deal with.  

How this person has dealt with you in this time will be a good
indication of this person's sensitivity and feeling.   Also, I think
that in this situation, the other person has a tendancy to tell you
the worst of the old relationship when they actually have mixed
feelings.

I'll be thinking of you.  Good luck.

john

                                                         
    	Hi,
    
    	There's a new movie out called "Say Anything"....Could that
    be a trend in people's behavior, nowadays?
    
    	Speaking of which, it's well known that some of us get into
    a "caretaking" role for another, and often it's disguised as love.
    
    	I do it all the time! Let me tell you, it's a thin line between
    love and codependancy. Is what you're so willing to do, in an effort
    to "save" this person, really an appropriate issue for you to take
    on?
    
    	There are some things that are simply another person's own
    responsibility. Things like their own happiness. You can take on
    something like that, and "do it for them", but eventually you'll
    come to resent this role you've chosen. And as you said, they'll 
    "gladly let you" :'{
    
    	Until you _really know_ someone, you're going to continue to
    find things about what "makes them tick". There may be reasons why
    this person *preferred* to return to the abusive relationship that
    you simply do not understand at this point in time. In other words,
    what has just happened may be only one "incident" in a continuation
    of similar behavior - in terms of your misunderstanding it. It turns
    out that understanding it, is the best thing you can do, for yourself
    and for the other person.
    
    	Let go. If you'd like to understand this person's behavior further,
    read the "Bradshaw on: the Family" stuff mentioned in this file
    and elsewhere. You can choose to painfully hang on, and "help" this
    person, but you'll really just be "floating their boat"; they'll
    take it, use you right up, and then go off and do who knows what
    some time in the future. 
    
    	I'm sure you you can do better than that, with the big heart
    of yours I see :')
    
    	Joe Jas
                             

    I just read note 749 and only wish that I could have written
    in this conference sooner to share the same hurt and pain that 
    this person is going through.  While I realize we have all been
    hurt at some point in time, when one finds themselves in a
    situation as this, the pain is so great...when one gives 100%
    and that other person ends the relationship, but you keep allowing
    that person in your life - because you can't "let go" then it
    becomes overwhelming.  The key is "letting go", something I have
    not been able to do yet.  Will it come? When do you say enough is
    enough?   Thank you for this note.  It has helped.  Hopefully it
    has helped the original noter to let them know they are not alone.
    

    I can't say much that is greatly different from what everyone else
    has told you.  I've been in similar shoes too.  And I let #2 do
    this to me, not once, but twice.  He even tried a third time, but
    by then I had decided that I had let myself be hurt enough.
    
    This sounds cruel, but I really had to HATE him to get him out of
    my system.  It was the only way that I could let go of the love,
    the obsession.  It was the only way that I could set myself free
    and it took two years to do it.
    
    For what it's worth, I don't hate him anymore, and we're friends
    again, although not as close as before.  In some ways, we're even
    closer than ever.  
    
    Things didn't work out so well for #2.  He married #3 and they had
    one heck of a roller coaster ride.  I don't think you'd be interested
    in all the details, but I will tell you that I stopped being the
    safety net about halfway through their rocky relationship.  
    
    I did what I had to do to purge the pain.  The most important thing
    that I had to do was MAINTAIN A POSITIVE SELF IMAGE!!!  I once had to
    write "I am a beautiful person" 1000 times because my roommate at
    the time heard me say "I feel so ugly".  By the time I finished
    I was laughing so hard because she stood over me the whole time
    like an old fashioned school marm - and I sincerely felt good!

    When I would start feeling low and sorry for myself, I'd take a walk 
    in the park, or a long, hot, luxurious bubble bath.  I'd open a box of
    cereal and look for the toy prize.  I'd get a coloring book to color 
    in.  I'd find mud puddles to play in!
    
    And I would write.  I still keep a journal of my thoughts and feelings,
    my hopes and dreams, a record of events and my reactions to them.
    
    Best of all, I had my friends.  Friends who would listen, encourage me 
    and love me no matter what.

    If you are naive, then so am I.  But we learn, and we survive. 
    This other person is not your responsibility, but YOU are.  You
    cannot control what this person does to theirself and you mustn't
    blame yourself for whatever happens to this person, love or no love.

    And to .11 -        

    Yes, it will come.  I thought it never would for me, but it did.  
    It takes time and courage, and you do have both.
    

    Thanks for letting _me_ cry, too.
    
    Carol

    
    
    This is truly a tough experience.  I wish you all the best in trying
    to overcome it.  I've been in a similar situation, but it ended
    differently.  The thing you have to remember is that YOU are the
    most important person to yourself.  What others do are not your
    fault and you have no control over them or their actions.  You can
    not make person # 2 or 3 change.  They are the only ones who can
    do that.  You have to take care of yourself now.  Sure it sounds
    selfish, but it is what is important.
    
    It hurts enourmously to loose someone you love so dearly for reasons
    you simply cannot understand.  I know how it feels, but you will
    survive this.  You will get through this because you are the strong
    one here.  Person #2 is very insecure and person #3 is very
    controlling. You are neither and should be glad for that.  I wish
    you luck in working this out for yourself.  If you would like to
    contact me offline my node is GIAMEM::MACKINNON.
    
    God Bless
    
    Michele
           

     I want to thank the writer of the base note for sharing his/her pain.  
     The responses of the caring people in this conference have also helped 
     yours truly who is in a similar position....suffering the break up 
     of a relationship with someone who I care for in a very special way.  
     I'd like to share a piece of prose that has given me support in hopes 
     that the words will bring comfort to all of those who are struggling 
     with letting go:

         - wendy -





                           LETTING GO


         To "let go" does not mean to stop caring, it means I can't do 
         it for someone else.
         
         To "let go" is not to cut myself off, it's the realization I 
         can't control another.
         
         To "let go" is not to enable but to allow learning from 
         natural consequences.
         
         To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the 
         outcome is not in my hands.
         
         To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another, it's to 
         make the most of myself.
         
         To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
         To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
         
         To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a 
         human being.
         
         To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the 
         outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
         
         To "let go" is not to be protective, it's to permit another 
         to face reality.
         
         To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
         
         To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to 
         search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
         
         To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires but to 
         take each day as it comes, and cherish myself in it.
         
         To "let go" is not to regret the past, but to grow and live 
         for the future.
         
         To "let go" is to fear less and love more.
         
         
                                                   -- Author Unknown
         
         

    They said that they love you? Those are only words and action speaks
    louder than words! I don't see how it's possible to say you love
    someone then dump on them like that. I agree with previous replies
    stating that you concentrate on YOU and not someone else right now.
    
    Wish you the best
    Mark Higgins
    

    What does your heart say....how strong is your love....
    
    Do you believe in him?  If so then it can be.  He needs your
    
    love as much as you need his.  He needs your help.  
    
    Is he your soul mate?  If so then it can be .... If he can be 
    
    all your dreams then don't let it go....    
    
    If you know him and know his love ....your decision should be easy.
    
    Great love stories don't come easy....
    
    after all look at Wesley & Princess Buttercup
    
    blt
    

To all who responded to the base note...

First of all, THANK YOU! You've all been an inspiration during a difficult
time. Being able to draw on your collected experience has meant a lot
to me. Just knowing you care means even more!

A couple of points:

   o I've decided I can't just pine my life away - I have resolved to
     keep busy on other things that interest me. I also have some good
     friends, and that helps a lot.

   o I have also decided to take a wait and see attitude on person #2.
     Be there as a friend and confidant - but live my own life first.
     I am still very worried about this person's current situation. 
     I can't turn my back on someone in a difficult position, though
     I also know if they ultimately choose a bad situation, it is their
     choice and I have to live with it.


I hope someday soon I can write my whole story in this place, maybe
with a happy ending - maybe not. This has been a trying experience at
times, but I think I'm glad I've gone through it.

Thanks to all again!