Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Good topic, Jim...
    
    	My gentleman friend (I can't get used to using an acronym) is very
    conscious of his privacy and of mine.  Yesterday, he was anguished when
    he accidentally opened a piece of junk mail addressed to me.  If I'm on
    the phone to a family member, he'll absent himself from the area.  
    
    	While I don't have a need for that much privacy, I do appreciate
    his offering it.  What it says to me is that, while there's a wonderful
    bond between us, we don't (in particular, he doesn't) take for granted
    a level of familiarity that supercedes the bounds of courtesy that you
    would provide to a stranger or friend.
    
    	I think, too, when you extend to someone you care about a good deal
    of privacy, you're also trusting him or her to keep you informed if
    there's something you ought to know about... that's a matter of
    being honest.
    
    babbling on,
    Marge

    I believe that a spouse has a right to know, only because they care
    about you and because you have chosen to spend your life with them.
    So why not let them in on it?  
                                 
    I also believe that the 2 people in the relationship need their
    different interests and their own quiet time (ie: privacy).  
    This is proven if you look back to when you first met your spouse or SO.  
    You both were different people then and had your own activities 
    that you did not do together, so why should marriage or living
    together change it.  If a couple does spend all their time together
    and not have different interests they could frazzle out the 
    relationship very easily and quickly.
                                 
                                 
    Just my opinion,             
    Bethany
    :-)                      
                                 
                                 
                                  
                                                      
                                 

         I seem to have basically landed on the opposite side
         of the premise established in the base note...
         
         [Yes, I know, there are those of you out there who
         know me chuckling in your beards..."something new?"]
         
         But...
         
         I have tried to give my spouse "more" privacy than
         I give to anyone else....not demand or present "less".
         
         You see, the way I look at it, the demands and
         commitment of living together, raising a family
         together, squabbling togther, crying together...they
         all make it "more" necessary to allow each of us
         to be "alone" in our thoughts and actions at times.
         Time to re-charge the old jump-start mechanisms...
         
         If I need to know something he will tell me...he
         knows where I live...If I don't...I won't worry if
         I don't know...
         
         And...on a related topic...I have this unfounded
         but gut feeling that the only reason people "confess"
         their indescetions to their partners is to spread
         the guilt they feel around the yard.  If I do something
         that would be hurtful to the man I love if he knew...why
         would I tell him?  Certainly not to make "him" feel
         better...perhaps to make *me* feel less guilty? 
         Then I have done two wrongs...made him hurt twice...all
         in the name of honesty and trust?
         
         Yes, I know my mind is warped...but my opinion only.
         
         Melinda

    melinda,
    \
    
                your mind is NOT warped, neiher is your opinion.
    

    
    	Hi Jim,
    
    	There's a book by M. Scott Peck I believe, called "How to live
    with another person" which addresses your topic directly...
    
   	 It describes the necessity of a certain agreed_to level of 
    privacy for each person in the relationship. It gives examples, such 
    as a fella "going through his SO's purse without asking her", to show 
    the breach of what he considers a fundamental level of privacy that
    is due *anyone*. He goes on to explain that these breaches are simply
    not necessary and will likely perturb things to a bad end. I highly
    recommend it, for anyone who's living with another person, be it
    their Wife, SO, Child or Roomate.
    
    	Joe Jas          

Myself, I don't like to have secrets...  I'd just as soon tell everybody all
about myself...  my skeletons in the closet don't bother me...  I don't mind
people asking, because I feel that it shows an interest in me.  I don't mind
telling, but sometimes I think people's reactions are get upset over the most
trivial things. 

Likewise, I assume that other people have nothing that they need hide from me.
Sometimes this means that I overstep myself and intrude on an area they would
prefer to be private, but it also means to me that it doesn't matter if they
have something that they choose to keep from me. I figure that when I need to
know, I will find out...

Also, it takes a lot of time and energy to keep everybody abrest of everything
that's going on that they 'should' know.  Usually it's all I can do to inform
people of what they *need* to know, if something affects me & them, and let
whatever else come out with the course of time. 

now, what do you think about telling, or needing to be told in some of the
following situations?

If you'd been arrested sometime in the past, would you tell your wife or
someone else?

If you'd gotten a traffic ticket would tell...
If you'd had a drinking problem in the past, would you tell...
If you were in therapy would you tell your SO/dates?
If you were on medication who would you tell?
If you had an operation would you tell...
If you had been divorced would you tell your SQ/dates?
If you had children would you tell your dates?
Would you tell dates your social/financial standing?
Would you tell your children what you were leaving them?

....

I'm sure that you can think up other questions...

Jim.

I agree about not opening other's mail.  If I'm extremely interested in
something my husband got in the mail, I'll either wait til he got home and let
him decide to tell me or not, or call him and tell him he has mail from so and
so, does he want me to tell him what it is.  If he says yes, I read it to him,
if not I put it aside.  I usually know if it is something special he is waiting
for and that he wants to know right away if it came in...like his grades.  That
goes for junk mail to.  One person's junk.... 

Who knows, maybe he'll order a suprise for me thru the mail someday.  If I
always opened his mail, it would ruin the fun.

I only open his mail if it actually says, "to mr. and mrs." then I consider it
our mail.

I prefer privacy more than he does I think, maybe that is why I'm so consious of
it.  But I think it should be discussed so that all involved understand what
"privacy" means to each person.

Ln

    
    Jim, I personally would like to know more about WHY you're asking
    this question.
    
    In particular, are you in a relationship in which one of you wants
    some information of the other one, and is either reluctant to ask,
    or is resisting supplying the information ?
    
    The answer to your original question I believe will depend on
    your PERSONAL situation.
    
    An example from my own life:
    
    	I've recently started seeing someone I'm really quite interested
    	in (uh oh, she'll see my note and I'll be in trouble...)
    
    	but with so many snags in life, sure enough, here's one more in
    	mine too.  The latest snag is that when I met this woman, she
    	quickly told me she's been seeing someone, although not exclusively.
    
    	So, as I go on with this relationship, I'm continually faced with
    	knowing she's seeing someone else besides me, but how much do
    	I ask her about him, or expect her to tell me ?  (don't answer
    	this, it's rhetorical)
    
    	In my case, it's a balance.  On one hand, I'm just happy she likes
    	me and wants to see me.  Then again, I want to know what's
    	going on with the her and the other guy, and where do I stand ?
    	But then again, I don't want to come across as a pest, asking all
    	sorts of questions. Not only that, I might not enjoy hearing
    	the honest gorey truth about her and him if she WERE willing
    	to tell all!
    
    	Hence in my case, we're not just talking about "right" to privacy
    	here.  We're talking about real feelings and balances.
    
    So Jim, I invite you to share your situation.  What privacy issue
    in particular are you grappling with ?
    
    Thanks.
    
    /Eric

    I didn't read all the replys yet but IMHO No one has the right to
    know.  SO, Mother, Father, Friend, Cousin, Counsoler or even your
    Diary.   If someone wants to know they can ask but they cann't demand
    it from you.  If they did, it wouldn't be yours anymore.  If you
    want to tell someone then it's up to you.  
    	
    	If you are talking about sex,  the person who you plan to engage
    with has the right to refuse if you refuse to tell him or her.
    
    Bill
    

The topic about whether the use of a free plane ticket is shared or not is
partly a privacy issue.  The woman seems to think that she has a right to at
least an explanation if the ticket is not being shared.  I disagree.  It's
hard to give someone a pleasant surprise if you have no privacy.

Jim.

    Why, no.
    
    You begin with, "Honey, you may not have realized something.  I
    couldn't have afforded this trip if I'd had to pay my own airfare.
    I was pretty sure I could get a ticket from my sister, so I didn't
    say anything before we started making plans.  Now she's come through
    and I can relax.  I'll tip all the luggage handlers, or something,
    okay?"
    
    You carefully refrain from mentioning that you also intend to do
    something much bigger *in addition to* that tipping.
    
    Really, it's quite easy to plot and plan under cover of a disingenuous
    frankness.  It just takes a certain childish delight in having
    secrets for the fun of it.
    
    						Ann B.

The fact remains that the explaination is considered manditory, which I don't
agree with.

Also, that sort of disembling, given different subjects is sure to be considered
falsehood.

Even with your method, you are still keeping private your intentions.  Do you
have a right to do that?  Why not just not mention that you got a free ticket?
Wouldn't that be the same thing, only simpler?

Jim. 

    I see a good reason to tell your SO that you have had an affair with
    someone else - they need to know what (if anything) they may be
    exposing themselves to.  They may, of course, with this new
    information, refuse to ever come near you again.  But they have the
    right to make an informed choice.  If you don't give them full
    information, are they really staying with you, or with some image of
    you?  If monogamy is important to you, don't you want to *know* that
    your SO shares that value with you?  Or would you rather love the image
    and assume until it "suddenly" comes to light that (s)he does not? 
    
    If your SO came home and told you he had gotten carried away one night
    when away from home, and ended up having sex with a gay prostitute,
    wouldn't you want to know?  I certainly would!  I think everyone has a
    right to know what risks they may being exposed to. 
    
    
    As for what to tell whom, I think a casual date has the right to know
    if you are currently involved/married to someone else before going on
    the date.  If the date becomes more serious, they have the right to
    know if you've been divorced, if you have children, age, sexual
    preference (especially true for bi men).  The other questions Jim asks
    are kind of matter of choice - I see no moral anything stating whether
    or not to tell someone that you are leaving them what when you die -
    children, spouse, or anyone else. 

    To tell them all those things is PROPER but it isn't a right.  If
    he or she doesn't tell you those things then he or she is lower
    than snake spittle.  If you want you have the right to ask just
    as he/she has the right to refuse to answer.  If he/she refuses
    to answer then you have to make a descision wether you are going
    to assume everything is ok.   The freedom of speech (/lack of) 
    enters into this category.
    
    Bill