Conference quark::human_relations-v1

[Moved from note 219]
    
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Note 219.0                        Neat Article                           1 reply
KAFSV1::D_BIGELOW "Amateur Analytical Analogous"     13 lines  20-FEB-1987 17:47
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    Wow !  I like your article.
    
    You have a very interesting point of view.  I think the book
    that Goldstein wrote about available bachelors would probably
    be more like "fun reading" for women, instead of taking anything
    the book had to say literally.  Although, I'm sure some women
    were probably desperate enough to buy it thinking they would 
    find a mate.  All of us get desperate at some time in life,
    and sometimes "selling love" reminds us that love is out there...
    somewhere...so we don't get too depressed.
    
    					- Darrell -
    

    I think the capitalist institutions which are selling tools for
    finding love provide a very useful service.  People that view
    love/marriage/etc as, fundamentally, a financial relationship
    are most likely to find these approaches effective.  It is much
    safer to invest money than to invest oneself.  These tools make
    it possible to court safely without requiring much investment of
    self.

    It's a problem of demographics, and the various "love sellers"
    are attempts to solve the problem.
    
    If you do not marry your high-school or college sweetheart, but
    postpone marriage and go work in an office (which describes a large
    number of people), then your selection of possible mates is quite
    limited, as is your free time to find them.
    
    When one is in school, one is in a population which has large numbers
    of members of the opposite sex of the appropriate age and social
    class.  Should you meet an interesting one, there is a good chance
    you will meet them again without pre-arrangement, so you don't have
    to get the phone number the first time (thus the first meeting is
    low-pressure, and things often work out better).
    
    In the "real", work-day world, if you meet a nice one, you better
    get the phone number fast, because you won't meet them by chance
    again.  In the work world, most of the people at work are not the
    right age and social class, and most of the ones that are are
    already married.  So what's a single person to do?
    
    The baby-boom market is large enough that there is clearly a lot
    of money to be made by helping people find mates.  None of the 
    currently available methods seems to be the right solution, but
    no-one knows what the right solution is going to be.  I don't find
    the money aspect to be a bad thing.
    
    I wound up marrying a co-worker.  But this option is not open to
    everyone (uneven numbers of men and women here).  I have a lot of
    sympathy for the men and woman in their late twenties and thirties
    who wish to start families, and don't see how they can if they can't
    find a mate.
    				-John Bishop

    Re .3, I agree with just about everything you say, but one thing
    really bothers me.  Twice you make reference to meeting people of
    the right "social class" at work.  This IS America 1987, isn't it?
     I thought we (all DEC employees) WERE the *right* "social class".
     This isn't feudal Europe or a slave plantation.  In this day and
    age the term "social class" should be totally irrelevant, in my
    opinion.
    
    Lorna
    

    re .5
    "Social class" should be irrelevant as a criteria for chosing 
    an so but it is a factor that complicates a relationship,
    just as ethnic background, religion, race etc. Some people are
    able to deal with the additional problems such differences bring
    to a relationship, others are not.

    Re .6, *I* have a difficult time dealing with people who have a
    difficult time dealing with ethnic backgrounds, religion, race,
    and "social class" differences.
    
    Lorna
    

    re .7 So do I - but that's not true of everyone.

    Re .5 to .8:
    
    At one time I naively felt it should be irrelevant, too.  However,
    class issues can profoundly affect a long-term relationship in many
    unsuspecting ways ranging from how money gets spent to relationships
    with in-laws et al.  You bring a certain orientation and "set of
    baggage," which are not trivially influenced by class, to any
    relationship.
    
    When you consider the subtler aspects of class, unrelated to money
    or social standing, it becomes even more of an issue.
    
    (No offense meant by "naively."  The word reflects my own subsequent
    experiences and observations.)
    
    
    Back to the original topic...

    Ok, if I wrote a dating program, would
    anyone use it?

Me thinxnot.

    My experience with "computer dating" was one horrid time in
    junior high.  They held a dance where everyone (in advance) filled
    out questionnaires, and when you arrived at the dance, you were
    handed a tag with a number (to wear) and a list of your "matches".
    I had two matches - two friends who had filled out their forms
    identically, and who also arrived an hour late.  Neither was interested
    in me.  Ah well.
    
    Another interesting item, this one having been reported in various
    media:
    	"It took six years in Turkish courts for Suleyman Gurersci
    	to get a divorce.  After his 21-year marriage ended,
    	Gurersci went to a computer-dating service to find a new
    	wife.  Out of 2000 candidates, the computer selected his
    	perfect date - Nesrin Caglasa, the woman he had just
    	divorced.  So he married her again.  This time he plans to
    	be more tolerant."
    
    Not having investigated it myself, I'm under the impression that
    today's dating services don't just run forms through a computer,
    but serve as a convenient method for introductions, using
    videotapes, etc. for previews.
    
    Personally, I would not use such services, nor would I run a
    "Personal" ad - it's just not my style.  I've met enough interesting
    women in other ways that it just doesn't seem worth it.
    
    					Steve

re: .7,.10 & others (class)

Social class is one of those things like ethnic, racial or religious
background that "shouldn't" make a difference in the success or failure
of relationships.  Most of the statistical studies of marital longevity
that I have read so far indicate that these things _do_ make a difference
in spite of this.  In general it seems that the more characteristics you
have in common with a mate, the better your chances for a successful
long-term relationship.

This sometimes gets tricky in that you can have _assumptions_ in common
that actually require you to have different roles (for example, if you
both subscribe to the old-fashioned "he goes to work, she stays home"
role distribution), and be successful as a result.  Conversely, you can
both be very similar sorts of people but have your relationship founder
because you both _want_ to have a partner who complements your weaknesses.

    re. .13 (and others)
    
    Social class can have a real effect, even on "chemistry" and initial
    attraction.  When I first met my husband, we appeared to each other
    to be very different, and people who knew us thought of us as people
    with little in common.
    
    We later found we came from the same ethnic background (French
    Canadian), the same social/economic strata, had similar family
    background (mothers widowed when we were pre-teens), and our families
    had known each other very well several generations before.  Part
    of the chemistry and instant attraction we felt for each other was
    a kind of recognition -- "this is someone like me".
    
    As for dating services, I never used them, not because I didn't like
    the method, but because I wanted to feel someone wanted to know me, not
    anybody "assigned" to them. I did consider them several times when I
    was in the desert phase of my social life.  I think they are a viable
    method to meet someone, as long as your motivations are clear to
    yourself when you do it.
    

    on a scale of 1 to 1,000,000
    
    social class should count 1
    
    chemistry 1,000,000
    

        I see no reason why it is any worse for social class to be a
        selection criterion for friends or lovers than things like
        appearence, common interests, political beliefs, religion,
        career goals or whatever. Personally, I've had a fairly friends
        and girlfriends from a fairly broad range of social classes, but
        I tend to be very broad in my tastes in many fields. I like most
        cuisines (about anything except Mexican) or music (anything but
        opera, and some types of C&W). Others have narrow tastes and
        that's all right.
        
        When I was in high-school I belonged to three disjoint social
        circles--the nerds from my town, a group of predominantly blue-
        collar types from the nearby technical high school and a bunch
        of girls from another near-by town who were pretty much in the
        "main-stream" "popular cliche" in their town. The activities
        that we enjoyed together differed fairly widely as did any
        number of other things.
        
        Social class i a very real thing and it has a lot of effect on
        our tastes and our expectations. It is completely reasonable for
        it to be one of the criteria by which people choose whom they
        wish to associate with socially. It is not a legitimate criteria
        by which to politically or economically discriminate.
        
        JimB.

        Nice essay Lynn, and so true.  I believe it because I see it
    every day on the television, hear it on the radio, see it in magazines,
    and on billboards....hell, everywhere you look, they're selling
    love or sex.   I know this point will be argued until our sun goes
    nova (if we last that long), but I still have to agree with your
    side.  It's all around us.  Granted, computer dating services offer
    a "decent" service to those people out there who "don't have time"
    for such nonsense, and they would rather have someone else do all
    the dirty work.  For some, it's a godsend, for them....I wish them
    all the luck in the world....they'll need it!  The last two times
    I tried a relationship, the females insisted on meeting and marrying
    some rich *sshole with lots of material "goodies", and that they
    would NEVER have to work again, and that they could just travel
    the world....and so on and so forth.  I know I get tired of hearing
    these things, and I don't know why I keep hearing them, because
    they were with me at the time.  Do SO's get off on that sort of
    thing?  hmmmmm.....
    
    					Phil
    

    There is a dating service in Chicago (I believe) called "Peace of
    Mind".  All members are tested twice a year for eleven social diseases.