Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I do not believe we were sold a bill of goods.  We (those of us
    born during and after World War II) were born during traumatic
    times.  Our parents encouraged us in what values and aspirations
    they had.  They evolved from a depression, started their married
    life during the "war to end all wars" and brought their children
    up during a period of industrial development that had never been
    experienced.
    
    I feel when a society gets comfortable such as we were in the 50's
    we tend to examine area's of our life and the world around us a
    little closer.  We try to resolve issues that would be overlooked
    if we were struggling to but food on the table, etc.
    
    The process to right wrong usually begins with identifying who is
    responsible for the wrong.  Parents get their share of blame and
    men get the blame for women's issues.
    
    But change occurs...women's issues are getting resolved, people
    are working at stable marriages, and we as a people are forcing
    our government to be a nation governed by the people.  Will we ever
    get it right?  Probably not?  I don't think that the power that
    started this experience called life ever meant for it to be perfect.
    
    What happens when we have a means of communication such as this
    Notes File.  I think we tend to hear more from people who are concerned
    about issues.  People who are happy do not feel the need to do
    anything.  As individuals I think we need to take responsibility
    for noting good things that are happening.  Perhaps that approach
    will make the issues less overwhelming and more workable.
    
    ...Joyce

        Me, I think the message of the "me" generation, with all the
        "getting to know yourself", "divorce is the answer", casual sex,
        de-emphasis of the family, and the rest of it it is just as much
        hokum as the old American dream. The big lie is that you get
        something just for dreaming. Hey, you go to college, you gotta
        study, you want a white house or a marriage that works you gotta
        work at it. You don't want your spouse to "grow away from" you,
        you gotta grow with them and pay enough attention so that the
        changes that occur aren't a big surprise. 
        
        If you think that eiter the old tradition or the new notion of
        enlightenment means that the world's gonna come to you without
        your working for it, you're going to take a tumble. On the other
        hand you can make either a yuppie life-style or a "Father knows
        best" life-style work *if* you work at it, if you give rather
        than just take. But don't trade one set of illusions for
        another.
        
        JimB. 

  	Have I been "sold a bill of goods"?  Maybe, but the other half
    of selling is buying.  Am I not responsible if I "bought a bill
    of goods"?  Who is the nasty dude that sold it to me anyway? 

    
    	We have been in the "driver's seat" for a long time, each of
    us, in our own little lives. Whether we had an excellent start or
    have been handed hard times has little to do with what we are now
    if you think about it. So, are we a product of the Environment?
    Yes *and* No.
    
    	Yes, the environment did help form our perception of reality;
    	     what we expect to see, be able to do, ect.
    
    	No, we can become anything we want to, from "that" starting
    	    point. As mentioned before, it takes some work - and desire!
    
    There are numerous examples like "the child of the rich, famous
    movie star - who ends up becoming an alcoholic" or "the child of
    the poor, unknown pauper - who later in life recieves the Nobel
    prize"
    
    	Sounds like your theory applies only to Losers -
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    I've got so much more freedom of choice then my parents did, that
    sometimes it is overwhelming.  When mom and dad were in college,
    it was expected that mom would major in something like teaching,
    nursing or general liberal arts - find a husband, get married and
    raise a family.  Dad would find a wife, get a job, buy a house and
    support the family.  When they DID find each other the limitations
    that society (and their strong religious background) imposed on
    them ended up pressuring them to get married and neither actually
    got past their third year of college.
    
    So, they have lots of kids, build a bigger house, and do all the
    things that middle-class Americans do.  Then times changed.  I'm
    thankful that they didn't change my parents enough to cause divorce,
    but that DID happen to the parents of lot of my friends.  Costs
    rose, and sending kids to college forces mom to find a job
    which she was never prepared for.
    
    Now comes my generation (and I think there are three we are talking
    about now... mom & dad, me, and I think the author of the original
    note came somewhere between these first two).
    
    It was generally expected that I would go to college.  It was also
    emphasized that I would major in 'something that would get me a
    job', not just general liberal arts-type stuff.  The brothers &
    sisters who didn't get Bachelor's degrees got at least some sort
    of tech training.  Like I mentioned before, the decisions are just
    too vast.  I could major in ANYTHING.  When I got done, I could chose
    where I wanted to work and where I wanted to live.  
    
    No one expected me to search for a husband.  First I had to get
    established in my profession, and there wasn't really time to do
    both.  If it happened, great!  If it didn't, continue with professional
    growth.  Let's say I DID get married.  What if my husband's job
    forced him to move?  What if my job paid more?  What if *MY* job
    forced ME to move?
    
    Okay, so let's say I have kids.  Can we afford to buy a house if
    I stay home with them?  I'd like to.  If I do, will they be as prepared
    for kindergarden as all the kids who were raised in Day Care, and
    can spell their own name and do arithmetic by age three?  I had
    a hard time tying my shoe when *I* started school.  I certainly
    wasn't reading by then, and barely knew my alphabet.
    
    There is so much more then that.  When and if I *DO* decide to add
    another person to my life full-time, I think that I will have a
    harder time than mom & dad did....   No wonder there are so many
    divorces now.  Things that were 'expected' before are no longer
    'expected', and there are easier ways to get out, and more choices.
    *USUALLY* I think my freedom of choice is *GREAT*, but sometimes
    I think that less freedom would be so much more easy.

    -peg

The '50s came after several decades of turmoil -- the great depression and
world war II.  Both of these produced great dislocations and insecurities
in people.  The reaction (an over reaction as usual after any traumatic
event) was a society that went to an extreme of conformity, normality, etc.
The ideal became a return to a tradition that never existed -- the nuclear
family in their white house, 2 cars and 2.4 children.  A lot of women
went to work during WWII because they had to and the society needed
them.  When the war ended, the reaction was that women "should" now
go back to being housewives and mothers and that "going to work",
particularly in industry, was a man's role.

Some of the '60s culture was a reaction to all that.  Add to that the fact
that technology has provided communication and mobility vastly greater than
any previous generation has known, and so the pace of change is greater
than at any time in human history. 

The result, I think, is that we have a greater chance to determine our own
lifestyle, or at least pick from a number of alternatives, than any
previous generation.  This is a blessing and a curse.  In the past,
most people lived by the rules of the culture they were born into, and
that provided a sense of security in the presence of difficulties. 
None of these sets of rules worked perfectly for everyone, but it satisfied
a basic human need to belong somewhere and to "know the rules".

So yes, some of the '50s bill of goods was bogus, or at least carried
an implication of permanence and universality that was not warranted.
However, that culture has not completely vanished.  It's one of a number
of alternatives, and you can find people who share most any alternative
that your are comfortable with.  Just be wary of any that promise it
will be "easy", however.

I wonder what the experience of some of our fellow workers who
grew up in the 50s but outside the US is?  Television, which
was pretty much gearing up in the early 50s, has turned this
country into a mad scientist's laboratory in social mutation.

Social expectations and mores used to come about by a consensus
that probably took almost a generation to gel prior to the
onset of television.  Now we can pass through dozens of such
"expectation sets" (like mind sets) in the same span of time.
Sometimes they contradict ("oops, last week I was a Swinging
Single, but now I'm into the New Chastity") and other times
they're additive ("career+kids+house+VCR+..."), and because
they come at you so fast you sometimes miss out on ones that
other people are eating-breathing-sleeping.  The consensus
becomes fragmented.

Every generation must go through some disillusionment with
the expectations it was raised with, but I have the feeling
that each one used to have the time to form its own consensus
and present at least a facade of agreement on values to the
rising generations.  Now the pace is too fast.

It was also some time around 1960 when we built up a sufficient
armory of nuclear weapons to kill every person on earth.  That
was a psychological watershed that might bear on this too.

	Pc.